I like this game but...

[rotkeps 10]

I just can't play it with this abysmal AI, it seems like a big portion of the game is centered around at one point or other AI being in control or you being in control of them -- and it is just so broken that it makes the whole thing this tawdry affair.

For instance, I like the crcti mod, but having to command a little bunch of the buggers is just a nightmare.

Here is just a few of the things I have noticed, all of which I consider utterly gamebreaking, that is, whilst this behaviour remains in the AI it completely undermines everything else the game is trying to achieve, rendering it pointless.

1. AI moving for no apparent reason in the middle of firefights when:

- Obviously it is ideal for the AI to prioritize keeping its head down as much as possible with as little as movement as possible, even if ordered to do so.

- It makes very large swooping arc like movements to take a few steps forward, putting it in harms way and breaking cover in such an un-necessary way.

- You can't shoot whilst moving in this game, well unless you're walking, but the AI never walks, even in combat it just likes running about everywhere.

2. AI seems oblivious to cover and how to use it:

- It certainly seems to run to bushes / walls / buildings etc and act like its using cover, but its not.

- Again, combat quickly highlights this behaviour is extremely basic, they never try and take up positions in a defensive fashion so they are behind cover (IE there is something between them and the bullets) and providing a good arc of fire on enemy positions.

- The ones that didn't do something stupid and got themselves killed will just be stood well behind something not doing much of anything.

- When behind things like walls, instead of crouching to actually be able to be firing back, they just prone behind it like morons, never moving, never returning fire.

- Ordering them to take cover does the exact opposite, they all go stand in the open for no apparent reason :(

3. AI seems to go from one extreme to the next on its ability to fight.

- It is either godlike in perception, able to pinpoint you through a bush from 500m landing a single shot to your skull.

- Goes into lobotomy mode, even enemy soldiers in the open in its field of view will just be ignored.

- Sort of ties into 2. with the cover, but they also seem to have terrible reactions after changing stance, IE, someone proned behind a wall I just ordered to crouch, will then crouch and takes about 10 seconds to actually start shooting back (which he probably won't do, he will most likely just prone again if he wasn't shot in the face first)

4. Why bother taking AI soldiers with rocket launchers and the like? They never use them on anything that counts.

- Get into a firefight with a small group of infantry and they can't wait to blast their rockets at just about anything

- Something armoured turned up? good luck getting them to do anything about that, ordering to attack will often have them (with rifle in hand) run to the nearest bush and prone... brilliant.

- Same with machinegunners really, they don't seem to understand they're using a weapon good at supressing, and choose to fire a couple of short bursts once in a while. Whilst they could be letting rip :(

I know that all probably seems pretty scathing, but I seriously do like this game, and I love crcti -- but sometimes the AI just make me want to uninstall this game and check back a few patches down the road, just feels like I am having a much tougher battle with my own squad than I ever will against enemy soldiers.

Peace out ^^

Edited July 13, 2009 by rotkeps

[TCEd 0]

The game is big on AI/Co-op play, hence the whole "simulator" thingy in the title. What you need to do is get with some folks who play PvP, just click my sig & you will find just such a place, hope you enlist.

[jakerod 254]

I am not having problems with the AI really. I'll admit they aren't perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than they were in OFP and ArmA.

[tobmic 10]

I can agree a little bit with the OP the things he said happens to me alot but however we should look positive into this game.

Im still impressed from the game and i dont whine much about bugs and things.

Lets hope BIS is coming up with patches in the future that increases performance , fixing some major bugs and some improvements to the AI.

Im sure BIS will fix many bugs and make a performance patch.But improving the AI I dont think this will happen.

This game is almost like empire total war when it was released for most players it was unplayable (and it still has a stupid AI ) and now 3 months later they fixed most crashes , bugs and made a good performance patch that makes the game playable now.

However all those bugs i dont care even if its unplayable sometimes I enjoy the game as it is now :- )

[lastn1ght 10]

well the great thing about games like this, especially on the PC, is that multiplayer really shines through. The single player gives us a love/hate state of affairs...but the multiplayer is almost always gold.

[cartier90 0]

can AI be improved through patches ?

[Alex72 1]

Yes it can be improved im sure.

However i do not agree to AI never do anything from cover. Im often pinned against an enemy AI leaning out of cover only showing his head slightly and fires at me. Leans back in and then out again and fires.

It can always be better ofcourse. If one want AI to behave like humans - go PvP. This option is available. Im sure BIS will improve AI some more like theyve done in all previous games.

[bonchie 39]

I kinda of agree.

The AI can be good at times and for the most part I don't have a problem with enemy AI. It's your own troops that could use some tweaking.

I'd like to be able to tell my squad to follow me but have them take cover as we move foward. The "advance feature" sort of accomplishes this but they will up and leave you and you lose control over them really.

[Trapper 0]

As this is your first post rotkeps, do you know that the "reveal" key is very important when working with AIs? In the demo it's "hold right mouse button" IIRC, then you'll speak out the targeted object's infos over the radio. Only then you can be sure that the AI has recognized the enemy you've already spotted. The more enemies you spot early for them the better they're supporting you.

[synch_c 10]

Treat the ai like idiots bacause they are. Tell them where to move, what to do, when to fire and what stance to take. You haven't got to do their job for them, just know their limitations and don't take any chances.

Use MOVE (LMB), STOP(1,6) and WATCH(ALT+LMB) all the time. Use ADVANCE to have one or two ai point men. Have all your squad HOLD FIRE until absolutely necessary. Even while under a HOLD FIRE order they will still cancel the order when they see themselves to be in danger. Use column when on the move and wider formations when expecting trouble. Have your LMGs cover open expanses and main roads in urban environments with STOP/MOVE, WATCH and GO PRONE. Keep your peeps in AWARE until mixing it up in the woods or towns.

Treat the ai like humans and they will always disappoint. Treat them like the sub amoeba intelligences they truly are and they'll sometimes surprise you in a good way. Remember that the enemy ai is just as limited as friendly ai but, like in any good game, the difference is you. I don't even open fire until my squad absolutely positively needs me to or when I'm afforded the rare luxury of security. If you're concentrating on a target or a group of targets you aren't concentrating on your squad and surroundings.

Most of all keep aware of your squad, your contacts, your position and your environment. Rambo only went lonewolf because the rest of his squad was dead ;)

[Taurus 20]

I've played the demo alot and compared Arma with Arma 2.

Here are the results:

Graphics -

Environment +

Sound +

Vehicle control -

Incomplete vehicles -

Howitzers and Mortars ?

M136 +

AI Group movement +

AI Vehicle control -

AI Night sight -

AI Vehicles in columns -

AI Covering fire from vehicles +

AI Commands -

AI and vegetation -

AI and AT-Weapons -

[edit]

Destroyable buildings +

NV goggles and HUD -

Sum:

+ x 6

- x 10

? x 1

Comments:

Graphics

Looks about the same, but with less FPS, sure higher quality textures but it doesn't add enough value.

"Auto smooth" whilst running looks ok, but the "panning"-smooth effect in turrets doesn't look too good!.

Arma 2 overdid the "bloom" or "glossy" effect, buildings, roads and such are NOT luminescent IRL

Environment

Dust stays from helicopters, cars and etc. A true night sky(stars)

Sound

Improved alot, such as helicopters, guns

Vehicle control

Cars still rather impossible to drive, commanding tanks same as Arma!

Incomplete vehicles

Commander view in T-72 still set to max zoom and it can not be changed, bug in demo?

Howitzers and mortars

Do they work as expected, without removing the shell and spawning it where it was "supposed" to land?

Having scouts which directs the fire?

M136

One rocket per weapon, i.e. IRL stuff

AI Group movement

Better with backup fire and "Fire and movement"

AI Vehicle control

AI helicopter pilots still can't deploy ground troops without crashing into trees or making the helicopter into an expensive plough. Pilots are NOT AWARE of their surroundings!

AI Night sight

AI still sees targets even tho' its pitch dark without wearing NV goggles *

AI Vehicles in columns

Still not fixed from Arma, they do the "silly dance"(rubber band effect), applies to both helicopters and ground vehicles.

AI Covering fire from vehicles

Finally they open fire and lay suppressive fire.

AI Commands

They repeat themselves and the sentence build system sound awkward compared to Arma.

AI and vegetation

Bushes, Grass etc still does not exist in the eys of the AI. *

AI and AT-Weapons

The AI still fires away on infantry with their AT-weapons

[edit]

Destroyable buildings

Nice feature that we now can blow stuff up, even tho' the AI wont path the way into them for cover

NV goggles and HUD

HUDs are too bright at night, they "blind" the NV Goggles.

Are there some way to lower the background light of the HUD in vehicles?

* I do not buy into "they hear you" as I'm crawling and making next to no sound compare to wind or waves. This also occurs in night time!

</end>

If someone could convince me that some of the - should be + I'd be grateful.

I'm not sure whether or not I should by this game after playing the demo, and these things with the AI was the things I disliked the most with Arma.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Taurus

[rotkeps 10]

Thanks for the replies all, yeah I do like playing PvP to -- just I like the scope of the crcti game and it can get really epic.

Just those occasions when I have bought specific units in my squad to do specific things that when the time comes, they do the exact opposite of that I get a frowny face :(

I think the AI overall is actually good, its just when you're in control of a squad of them and you want to get things done with that squad it can start to just become a battle with frustration, I've been playing crcti for weeks now, at the start I thought it was super awesome and couldn't get enough, just the more I learn about commanding the AI the more it winds me up :D

[Master gamawa 0]

Arma 2 overdid the "bloom" or "glossy" effect, buildings, roads and such are NOT luminescent IRL

I don't know where you live but depending on the suns position, the roads here can practically blind you. And most white/bright buildings.

You are right about the rest though.

[Trapper 0]

Treat the ai like idiots because they are. Tell them where to move, what to do, when to fire and what stance to take. You haven't got to do their job for them, just know their limitations and don't take any chances.

I don't know if you have a military background but it's exactly the same with a squad of human soldiers. Even the movement and fire orders you're suggesting are real life tactics. And they are the reason why there is a chain of command and leaders.

I would be disappointed if the ai under my command would be acting like a bunch of online gamer prima donnas. Though you can let them try to do this at any time by ordering "Engage at will".

Of course what's interfering with this good simulation is the clumsy menu control which becomes too complicated under pressure.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Trapper

[rotkeps 10]

Though you can let them try to do this at any time by ordering "Engage at will".

That is another big issue with the AI, even if set to disengage, if you order an attack on something, even if its in plain sight, rather than just shoot at it they run off trying to pull off some big elaborate flanking maneuver. Little things like that just start to wear on me to the point I start f'ing and blinding at my screen when I see half my squad go running 500m off into a bush to get a "good position" on the guy I asked them to shoot who was stood right infront of them to begin with :(

[synch_c 10]

That is another big issue with the AI, even if set to disengage, if you order an attack on something, even if its in plain sight, rather than just shoot at it they run off trying to pull off some big elaborate flanking maneuver. :(

Unassign exit menu (I think that's what it's called) from RMB and use RMB to order TARGET instead of LMB to ENGAGE. That way he won't move, he'll just just wait for the opportunity to fire. I never use TAKE COVER and I try to use ENGAGE and ENGAGE AT WILL as little as possible. Better to keep them in formation or tell them where to go and what to target.

Also use your binocs to spot the enemy. Even with autoreport switched off and no target orders your squad will often (almost always in fact) get information from you on targets. I haven't tested this but I've noticed that as soon as I have binoc bead on an enemy squad my squad will open up instantly. This is especially good for MG fire coordination. Just looking at an enemy squad through binocs will help your squad with targeting at range.

[Squigibo 10]

I wrote a single player mission, gave the enemy orders to board their truck, move to destination, unload, then go into search and destroy. They get out of the truck, stand at the back of the truck playing pocket pool, and enjoying a nice cup of coffee, and a smoke. Then they will wander around behind the truck. I threw a single grenade into the middle of them. Now is this dumb AI or what? Sometimes they will get out of the truck and go search and destroy, and sometimes not. This is what happens when not.

Dummies

[chaplainDMK 10]

I wrote a single player mission, gave the enemy orders to board their truck, move to destination, unload, then go into search and destroy. They get out of the truck, stand at the back of the truck playing pocket pool, and enjoying a nice cup of coffee, and a smoke. Then they will wander around behind the truck. I threw a single grenade into the middle of them. Now is this dumb AI or what? Sometimes they will get out of the truck and go search and destroy, and sometimes not. This is what happens when not.

Dummies

Yes, they are quite unreliable.

I dont remember this in OFP, AI took a deep drop in reliabilaty from it.

Probably the huge numbers of objects on the map just fry their little cyber brains. OFP had like trees, bushes and houses and maybe some sandbags and barbedwire at best.

I love it in OFP:E where you can make a AI squad get into a hind and fly to a location and have the soldiers patrol around and the hind flying over :D Too bad you cant script, would be nice

[Taurus 20]

Generally its a bad thing writing a long reply then restarting the computer without first pressing "submit reply"...

So here goes again...

I don't know where you live but depending on the suns position, the roads here can practically blind you. And most white/bright buildings.

I live in Sweden.

And the dirt roads and houses doesn't blind me when the sun does shine.

However wet asphalt roads does.

The game where I first noticed these glossy surfaces was in Half-Life 2 and I've disliked the overuse of it ever since.

However the "eye settle" effect occurring when you move from indoors to outdoors I do like.

Also the reflection on water and metal roofs.

Bis overdid it that's all.

But no gamer could say "This is bad looking":

(For some reason the movie looks cropped)

I do feel my instrumentation to be a bit too dark in daytime and too bright in night time.

But I'm not too easily sold on how pretty things are in a game, I want game play and basic AI functions to work properly, atm Arma 2 doesn't :(

I really really wished BIS to fix that in Arma 2.

However I do think Arma looked as good, part from the water effects ofc.

(For some reason the movie looks cropped)

The instruments are more visible in Arma as the cockpit model isn't rendered with shadow effects.