ARMA 2 Fails As PvP Game...What Happened?

[Sniperman1 10]

I know I'm going to get smeared all over the place, but I have to put my 2 cents in. ARMA 2 has SO FAR been a pathetic player vs. player game for me. What's with BOTS and AI's? Where's the player vs. player maps that consisted of organized squads with mic communication the whole time? I don't want maps that are designed by everyone and their mother. Give me a map that clearly shows 1 mission, like the ones found in BF1942, BF2 and BF2-Project Reality. Once in these maps, you knew exactly what your mission was. The only drawback with these maps were, they got old after awhile...but that's when I looked forward to new map releases. I find everything in ARMA 2 is the exact opposite and don't like fighting non-humans. I have read 3 manuals on ARMA 2 so far, and am still confused.

If anyone shares my thoughts and knows of how/where to get the type of gameplay I described, please let me know.

Well, that's all my ranting and raving...let the #$%^ start to fly.

Thanks all.

[whisper 0]

Search for Hold type maps, AAS, Berzerk

Or CTF type maps

They don't have AI

As for "I want a fixed definitive map, then expansions by devs", this game is not for you then. This game is all about freedom given to map makers to do anything they want... and they do it ;)

[KorJax 10]

Yeah, PvP exists (Hold, AAS, CTF... etc) you just keep playing on Coop servers.

Right now I'm pretty much only playing PvP considering the AI is broke as fuck with their telescopic xray vision.

[.kju 3244]

OFP was a SP game with last minute MP mode.

A1 was a game with nothing really even finished.

A2 is a game with focus on SP with Warfare.

Hopefully in the future the focus will be MP.

There are so many areas lacking.

Gameplay, Linux DS, working VON, designed to guide new players, proper MP missions,

auto addon download, better server browser, RCon for the server, way way more simple

MP mission coding (locality, JIP).

Hopefully BI will listen to and discuss with experienced MP people, make cooperations

with most successful MP mission designers and put the focus in MP in the future.

PS: SP = editor, campaign, scenarios, modding.

[whisper 0]

Gotta agree Kju, even though seeing the state of the campaign, the SP people will argue BI worked too long on MP part ;)

[dustoff 0]

the problem with PVP servers is people will not join and wait for a crowd to jump in . If there are one or two peps in there they go off on thier own and get bored quickly or jump to another server. they most likly spend the whole night jumping from server to server and just give up and join a evo or dom server where at least they can shoot someone

No one just sits in a server waiting for others to show up . I managed to get four in last night and me and another guy drove around to all the flags and figured out what order they needed to be taken , the other guy on the other team was just camping out waiting for us to hit the flag he was sitting on . I think we spent an hour and a half driving around and only had a shoot out when where ambushed , died and then took a chopper to straff his hiding spot.

I am running devastion 24/7 now on my server and hopfully people will take the time to jump on team speak and then the game and have a good night playing a little pvp.

Maybe everyone who wants to lay a little PVP and is willing to take the time to learn the in and outs of it will stop by tonight starting at 8:00 pm central time . VOIP is disabled on the server but I have a team speak server setup so everyone can gather .

the fastest ay to find the server is to hit remote and enter the ip of the server 66.148.120.48 or look for Devastion 48 Pavlovo its based on the west coast of the us with a 100 mb port .

teamspeak is runnng on the ip of 66.148.122.11

[.kju 3244]

Well dustoff if you look at other games, like ET:QW or even CS, bots can do fill up the

server until more humans are on there.

This could work for A2 too. Two obstacles.

a) It is not so easy to implement enjoyable/working AI behavior via waypoints. Though they can do the job.

b) Default AI is at times too dump or too good. Without addon use to tweak it, it is

not really in an enjoyable state.

[Zipper5 74]

Charlie Foxtrot

We have upwards of 100 people playing each week on PvP S&D maps designed solely for the tournament. No AI's involved what so ever.

[HOPEnSPIRIT 10]

Pick up the Editor and build some, ArmA has never really had a solid Official Map Base it has always been examples of what is possible and left to the community.

Yeah I agree it would be nice to have the 10 - 16 Official Maps that other games give out of the box, ArmA has never been an oridinary game though.

[dustoff 0]

Yep KJU.

A lot of games have bots that go away as players join some games even show them as players on the list so people think the server has people playing.

The problem with filling up PVP (or any server) is hitting the magic number. A server with one or two wont draw too many people but once the number goes over 5 people jump in .

For PVP servers to work you need teamspeak so people can gather and explore the maps while waiting for enough players to make a good game. Problem is too many people only want to jump in a server run the missions as fast as possible get a few kills etc. Others are rambos who will take the first chopper any fly away leaving the squad behind who has been gathering and planing. They dont have the staying power to enjoy the game that Arma is and is not. And if they dont get a kill right away or spend 10 mins getting to the next battle they leave.

I can spend hours just exploring the map and getting lost.

[galzohar 31]

It's not a matter of lack of communication (though of course communication is always a big plus). It's a matter of unsuitable/bugged/too big missions.

[whisper 0]

It's not a matter of lack of communication (though of course communication is always a big plus). It's a matter of unsuitable/bugged/too big missions.

Several times I see you bitching about missions.

You obviously have Ze Vision of What A Mission Must Be. I suggest firing up the mission editor and put your ideas into work

[AdmiralKarlDonuts 0]

I don't want maps that are designed by everyone and their mother. Give me a map that clearly shows 1 mission, like the ones found in BF1942, BF2 and BF2-Project Reality. Once in these maps, you knew exactly what your mission was. The only drawback with these maps were, they got old after awhile...but that's when I looked forward to new map releases.

Then you're playing the wrong game. The whole point of releasing the game with an editor is to encourage "everyone and his mother" to create their own stuff. Make your own mission if you're not satisfied with what the community creates.

BIS does not release 'map packs' or anything like that. They never have, dating back to 2001. A few new ones might have shipped with the expansion packs but they intentionally left it to us to create MP content.

[kevbaz 0]

My new 8 player pvp DM Hell in a Cell :)

[galzohar 31]

I think BIS not releasing at least *some* basic MP missions of different types was a big mistake. If anything the should've done it so people have ideas what to do and what can be done effectively with the engine, as well as setting some sort of "standard" on missions. People could still make anything, of course, but they'd have a better idea of what should work well, both technically and gameplay-wise.

[marius00 0]

I think BIS not releasing at least *some* basic MP missions of different types was a big mistake. If anything the should've done it so people have ideas what to do and what can be done effectively with the engine, as well as setting some sort of "standard" on missions. People could still make anything, of course, but they'd have a better idea of what should work well, both technically and gameplay-wise.

Absolutely. If they are going to realse a framework/platform with which we can create and host whatever we like, some examples to start of with would have been nice.

[An Fiach 10]

Doesn't help that everyone and his mother has their own TS server. TS works great if you have a large squad and always play with the same people but most people won't be bothered with signing on to whatever TS server fits the random server they picked to play on. VOIP works fine (on servers that have it)for people to communicate.

If people wont wait around and group up, is this result of so many new players or is the ArmA community not as team oriented as everyone seems to imply? I see often the suggestion to join a squad, but that results in a fragmented community and isolated "exclusive" groups with everyone else just milling about wondering what all the hype was about.

[deadsmell 10]

Absolutely. If they are going to realse a framework/platform with which we can create and host whatever we like, some examples to start of with would have been nice.

Hey you guys, i was reading through this thread yesterday and last night i saw that there actually are a handful of pre-made MP missions ready to go out of the box. Now I dont know how good they are, or if they are entirely what you may be looking for, but you can check em out and see. when you go to host a game, there are several premade mission options there. Check it out.

[JonasRC 10]

Use the mission wizard to make specific missions, its simple, takes less than 5 minutes to get a playable mission ready.

[An Fiach 10]

I was working on a couple of missions, but I am wary of putting forth the effort after the last patch made some missions unplayable, and we know another will be forthcoming.

[galzohar 31]

I basically have enough knowledge to make a reasonably designed mission, but missing turning it into multiplayer-playable (have starting locations rather than manning pre-placed units that will otherwise be controlled by AI), and keeping a score system with a "reset round" script that will basically revert the entire mission back to its starting state except the score that should remain.

[bazooka_boy 0]

The style of play you want is out there, but it's not the same 'jump on an play' setup that you'll find in other FPS games. But this game was never meant to be the same as other FPS games. What are seen as strengthes to many (more realistic, less arcade, go anywhere do anything playing area) could also be considered weaknesses when it comes to getting adhoc large scale organised games going.

Unfortunately I think that the most sucessfull way to achieve it is planning and organisation, whether that be with a group of friends, a group of people you organise with on these forums, a clan or a tournament. Get the date, time, style of mission pre arranged and those who are interested will try to join if they can. It is still not an easy task, but it can be done.

I for one currently play in the Charlie Foxtrot tournament. Not only does it have a large weekly battle, but you make enough friends to be able to find a decent game pretty much every night.

[Eclipse4349 0]

Then you're playing the wrong game. The whole point of releasing the game with an editor is to encourage "everyone and his mother" to create their own stuff. Make your own mission if you're not satisfied with what the community creates.

BIS does not release 'map packs' or anything like that. They never have, dating back to 2001. A few new ones might have shipped with the expansion packs but they intentionally left it to us to create MP content.

Working on what should be a great PvP gamemode as we speak, in cooperation with someone else... Should be great, once it's finished.

For the time being, there are other PvP options, but hopping in solo may take a while for players to start coming in, as has been said. You would do well to look into joining a casual clan, or at least adding other people to your xfire/ steam friends list who are also interested mainly in PvP play. Me, for example...

[galzohar 31]

It's not the nature of the game that is problematic. It's people trying to make large scale missions, and in the process kill any kind of realism they could've had.

Check out my unfinished mission to get an idea of what I'm talking about: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1365363#post1365363

[Liability 10]

It's pretty much as the others have suggested, mission makers have been thinkign large and utilizing the entirety of the map, whcih woudl be great 3 months from now with full PVP servers. We just need a few peopel to make soem quick and dirty maps that aren't any larger than town to town for now.