Allow shooting from the hip when running?

[galzohar 31]

you are correct; but it's not shooting from the hip at a full jog (which is what the OP wants). You still raise the gun to look down the barrel, but not actually using the sights. They want just from the hip spray and pray which is stupid

Who is "they"? :) there are a lot of people on this thread that don't want straight down shooting from the hip but want shooting while running which was the main point. Heck with MGs if you're NOT firing from the hip while running (assuming you're actually in a situation where you need to fire while running) you're doing something wrong. At least with the M240B.

[no use for a name 0]

Who is "they"? :) there are a lot of people on this thread that don't want straight down shooting from the hip but want shooting while running which was the main point. Heck with MGs if you're NOT firing from the hip while running (assuming you're actually in a situation where you need to fire while running) you're doing something wrong. At least with the M240B.

"They" as in the few people in this thread that think it's a good idea

[frederf 0]

Moving and shooting is not beyond belief of course but the running state in ArmA2 is 16mph, well above what I'd consider the max speed to even attempt a shot. I'm not going to say it's impossible but I'd have to see exactly how it would be in the game before I'd give a "yeah" or "no way" opinion on it.

[LJF 0]

The Argentines ran from the house to a nearby stream bed about 200 m away, firing as they ran.

[wikipedia - Falklands War]

[cadmium77 16]

I'm just reading the Osprey book on the US Ranger Battalion; Rangers are some of the most fit guys in the US military. They do a lot of running in their training. They don't run in combat; running with full gear (a 45lb pack) on damages your knees and ankles. Soldiers walk. They walk real fast but they walk. Sometimes they do this weird shuffle run with their guns up and aimed.

Arma 2 does a pretty good job at emulating all this. If the soldier run too much, well it speeds up the gameplay a bit so it doesn't drag..

[kremator 1065]

Perhaps we need an icon that shows wear and tear on our knees?

'You may have won the war soldier but it's now time for your knee replacements !'

[galzohar 31]

Soldiers definitely run. Basically whenever you're under fire in a place where someone is covering your ass while you run to cover. For example when moving in overwatch-type manuvers under fire, the ones who move do it running as fast as possible, not trying to shoot in the process, while the rest cover them.

I agree the current run speed of Arma 2 has no place for shooting on the run. It should only be possible if they (or a mod) actually implement a slower form of running.

[TangoRomeo 10]

It´s the situation that dictates the methods of movement and fire delivered. Shooting from the hip while running, is a military procedure, of which i´m positive can be found in many basic FM's. Whether this is an economic or effective method is open to debate.

[Pteradon 0]

Whether this is an economic or effective method is open to debate.

We don't have to debate about that,

it's not economic or effective method.

It's the wrong method.

Basicly, im starting to think, that those people who want "shooting (from the hip) while running", never been in the military, or even fired a real gun.

(This ain't CoD or BF, and when "shooting (from the hip) while running" will be implented in this game, it will affect the gameplay in a negative way.

Hoo-rah the kids are happy.)

Edited July 29, 2009 by Pteradon

[TangoRomeo 10]

It´s not realism being the issue, but players exploiting implementations like this, using them in situations that have no connection to RL application whatsoever.

[zolop0 10]

Lets compare...

Shooting from the Hip...

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? No

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? No

Adding Countermeasures to Aircraft

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Adding IR to Modern Tanks/ FLIR to Cobra, Modern Helis

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Adding IR vision mode Javelin/Top Fire Mode, Direct Fire.

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Adding sounds to tanks when they are disabled/on fire to the crew

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Edited July 29, 2009 by zolop0

[LJF 0]

I still think I at least am being terribly misunderstood about firing while jogging/running.

Lets compare...

Shooting from the Hip...

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? No

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? No

Adding Countermeasures to Aircraft

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Adding IR to Modern Tanks/ FLIR to Cobra, Modern Helis

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Adding IR vision mode Javelin/Top Fire Mode, Direct Fire.

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

Adding sounds to tanks when they are disabled/on fire to the crew

Does it bring Arma 2 in line with a simulation of modern warfare? Yes

Does it bring new modern warfare tactics? Yes

I never suggested that implementing a system whereby you could provide suppressing fire while on the move was a top priority and agree with many of the points above, though you missed out an armor system for tanks and other vehicles.

I still don't see what the problem is with the OFP1 system and animation styles.

(This ain't CoD or BF, and when "shooting (from the hip) while running" will be implented in this game, it will affect the gameplay in a negative way.

Hoo-rah the kids are happy.)

Once again we're back to CoD. Call of Duty has nothing to do with it - in the OFP system (which is what I'm talking about here) you couldn't run and fire and kill effectively, the only use for firing on the move was when you needed to duck behind cover if you had been running and in that situation a burst or two from you weapon may be enough to put your foe off enough so that you can make the 5m to cover. In that situation you are at an extreme disadvantage, you cannot stop and fire because the enemy will put you down first (keeping in mind I'm talking about MP-PvP), you have to run to cover like a sitting duck and if you make it then somehow reverse the situation. Getting there is the hard part because the other player is in NO risk at all, they can calmly aim and fire - and believe me when I say that this happens quite a lot.

There are many circumstances where your team cannot back you up, an effective enemy (which I think would be a correct description of the enemy players in PvP) will knock out the player/s covering you first, so they can no longer provide cover. Against an opponent of equal skill you simply cannot defeat them in a situation like that - you're moving and they're stationary.

Once again, I'm not promoting CoD as everyone seems to think. I'm promoting bringing back a feature from OFP and adding more flexibility to the current system.

[zolop0 10]

But is it really needed to make the game more of what it wants to (Realism/simulation/open modern warfare) be? This is the counterpoint I am trying to explain to you.

I missed out on a armor system for tanks? Could you please link this I would like to read this suggestion as it is an interesting topic.

[LJF 0]

But is it really needed to make the game more of what it wants to (Realism/simulation/open modern warfare) be? This is the counterpoint I am trying to explain to you.

I missed out on a armor system for tanks? Could you please link this I would like to read this suggestion as it is an interesting topic.

I don't think it's needed, but it'd be nice and would help to make it more flexible instead of just doing "what is done" - though I think it would be done.

Penetration is discussed here but there are other threads too I think, it's a bit of an issue with people or so it seems:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80381&highlight=penetration

[galzohar 31]

Again, nobody ever really fires rifles from the hip in combat, as if you actually need to shoot and aren't sprinting (so that shooting is actually not pointless, can never shoot while sprinting - heck - you shouldn't even have a finger on the trigger while sprinting), then it's a much better idea to raise the weapon to your shoulder, if it wasn't already in that position. Of course if you're running for cover and are being engaged form a large distance you're probably better off sprinting than trying to shoot on the run, but there are other situations where shooting on the run (with the weapon shouldered and with slower run speeds) is not only useful but is actually something you're supposed to do.

Everything I said about firing rifles from the shoulder applies to firing machineguns from the hip.

[TangoRomeo 10]

Trying to shoot from the shoulder while running is not only more difficult, but it will also throw the shooter off balance more easily. Shooting from the hip, or "Sturmschiessen" as we call it, is part of basic training in Germany.

aM-nM57Y058

At 2:03 the platoon leader tries to show recruits, but does so rather poorly, both methodically and didactically. The only thing he got correct is semi-auto fire.

[galzohar 31]

That's why Germans never won any wars? :D

I mean, seriously, the way he was running, what reason did he have NOT to raise his weapon to the shoulder and gain some massive levels of accuracy? It's not like he was holding a machinegun weighting 7-12KG.

Of course you can't run FAST and shoot on the run, but you can definitely run at a mediocre speed and shoot.

[TangoRomeo 10]

The idea behind this technique is not to deliver precision fire. It´s to cover a reasonable short distance at the fastest pace possible while providing additional suppression fire. A running person is just a target, someone shooting at the same time, a threat. It´s not an isolated action, but used in tandem with a covering group, i.e. while storming an enemy entrenchment. It´s gung-ho for sure, and if you get to choose between ABM to pacify a trench, and actually having to storm it, the choice would be obvious.

That's why Germans never won any wars?

No :D. Wars are decided at much higher levels. We just had a habit of bringing most major industrial nations against us.

[galzohar 31]

No :D. Wars are decided at much higher levels. We just had a habit of bringing most major industrial nations against us.

And then run at them firing from the hip instead of raising your weapon and firing like a real soldier ;)

Seriously, you don't really lose any noticeable speed when you fire with the weapon shouldered compared to the video. It's not like I'm saying you should look down the sights, just hold the weapon in a way that gives you better grip and control. Your arms are already limited from moving around which slows you down, might as well take advantage of it and fire a bit less inaccurately.

[bigduksixx 15]

Trying to shoot from the shoulder while running is not only more difficult, but it will also throw the shooter off balance more easily. Shooting from the hip, or "Sturmschiessen" as we call it, is part of basic training in Germany.

aM-nM57Y058

At 2:03 the platoon leader tries to show recruits, but does so rather poorly, both methodically and didactically. The only thing he got correct is semi-auto fire.

That's why women shouldn't be frontline infantry. 'Sorry, can't fight today because I have the painters in.'