Detection of Snipers

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I tried out sniping in the demo and found that at about 300 meters, I was receiving fire after the first shot, even though I was in the prone position.

At that distance, I think that the general position (within 50 meters) of the sniper should only be discovered on the 2nd shot. Exact location on the 3rd shot?

[kremator 1065]

As a sniper your main job is observation. Only high valued targets are engaged and then after firing one shot the sniper bugs out.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Kremator
poor grammar !

[Inkompetent 0]

As a sniper your main job is observation. Only high valued targets are engaged and then after firing one shot the sniper bugs out.

And what does this have to do at all with the fact that his exact location is spotted after the first shot if within 300m of the enemy? Nothing at all.

Wish I could test the OP's claims, but with my game maaaany miles away I can't atm :(

[Yoshama 0]

i made a sniper mission the other day

it was simple with 1 squad 2 patrols and 1 sniper team in a village and i was in the forest about 350-500 m away,

first using the SVD i had a little bit of a problem with them finding me,

after the first shot they would not know where i was yet, after the second they had an idea, after the third they were charging at me and suppressing me, if i missed the first few shots they would not recognize the shots. (my accuracy was about 50-50)

if i only shot 3 shots i could get away, if i stayed they would find me and kill me

I tried it again with the ksvk and was able to not miss a single shot. when i was killing with every shot they had a harder time finding where i was. i was able to eliminate every one in the village with out them even knowing what hit them. they would send out people in different directions but never find me

i used the vss but the sucker was not accurate enough at that range. but the silenced shots were not as effective because i missed so they found me

try using at least 300 m, because that is where the accuracy of an assault rifle and a sniper rifle start to become obvious, and never miss, because a miss shot tells the target where you are, and they tell the squad

[-=seany=- 5]

I tried out sniping in the demo and found that at about 300 meters, I was receiving fire after the first shot, even though I was in the prone position.

At that distance, I think that the general position (within 50 meters) of the sniper should only be discovered on the 2nd shot. Exact location on the 3rd shot?

300 meters is not very far for a sniper rifle, that is easily within assault rifle range. Get some distance.

I notice you have been here since 2003? Its been like this since OFP and is generally related to the difficulty setting of the AI. Do you feel its different in Arma2?

[chaplainDMK 10]

well i doubt you can spot a sniper at 300m thats prone on his first shot huh?

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

300 meters is not very far for a sniper rifle, that is easily within assault rifle range. Get some distance.

I notice you have been here since 2003? Its been like this since OFP and is generally related to the difficulty setting of the AI. Do you feel its different in Arma2?

Before 2003 (different account). I'm only commenting on how it is NOW.

I would LOVE to get more distance, but in ArmA 1 and 2 the Field-of-View settings mean that everything is unzoomed about 3 times real-life, and the terrain I was playing on didn't allow it.

I realize that 300 meters is within the effective range of a good assault rifle. It couldn't be helped. Just seems like you shouldn't be able to pinpoint the location of a prone sniper until a 3rd shot, based on the report of the weapon, not on whether rounds are killing your fellows or whizzing past you.

ArmA A.I. really needs to be more responsive to "sound". I groan whenever I see an explosion go off next to some, without them even flinching.

[jw custom 56]

And once your detected it's impossible to find a new location without the enemy knows exactly where your head will pop up.

[EDcase 87]

I agree that AI can pinpoint a prone shooter's location too precisely on the first shot.

Their awareness of your location should increase with each shot (as you say, 3 should be a good number to lock down your position)

And once your detected it's impossible to find a new location without the enemy knows exactly where your head will pop up.

Thats not quite true.

Once they've spotted you they will suppress that location.

If you move back and behind cover, lets say a building, and you come out from the other side they will still be looking at the side where you hid. Of course as soon as your head pops around the corner they'll see that and redirect fire very quickly.

The more you can change position after firing the better.

Edited July 3, 2009 by EDcase

[galzohar 31]

The AI has a lot of scripts that *try* to make it behave realistically. So far I've observed actions that point at the following:

AI doesn't have a lot of detection "modes". It either knows exactly where you are, looks at your general direction or has no clue where you are. Maybe there's more (I remember someone saying AI knowledge of a target has an integer value from 0-4) but nothing I've noticed. That "discreteness" makes some situations rather weird and make testing a bit difficult.

Increased distance GREATLY effects the AI detection ability, both before your firing and after.

Being partially behind cover helps, but without long enough distance it just won't cut it. Grass doesn't count, as for the AI grass does not exist (and you can disable it too by lowering terrain detail level to "ugly"). Bushes work though.

Certain weapons get you detected much more easily. Certain AI classes (at least some vehicles) have greatly increased detection in all the various above situations.

Once an AI found out your exact location, as long as he has LOS of you he will continue to know your exact location no matter what you do. When you lose LOS he will estimate your location based on the last place he had seen you and the speed+direction you were moving while you disappeared. That's why they would often keep "tracking" you when you go behind a house and reappear on the other side.

Certain classes are harder for the AI to see. Namely special forces and snipers (note that this is not based on equipment, but rather the actual "class" of your character).

AI seems to fully share all information with his squad.

Again none of the above is verified but it sure seems like it from my playing experience combined with what I've been reading here.

[jw custom 56]

Once an AI found out your exact location, as long as he has LOS of you he will continue to know your exact location no matter what you do. When you lose LOS he will estimate your location based on the last place he had seen you and the speed+direction you were moving while you disappeared. That's why they would often keep "tracking" you when you go behind a house and reappear on the other side.

Thats AI using a build in aimbot, it's frustating and the reason i barely play the game at the moment... enemy being unrealistic smart :(

[NoRailgunner 0]

They dont have a perfect "aimbot" - maybe you should try different tactics and see how the AI really (re-) acts! ;)

If its too difficult for you try to lower AI skills in options or in your profile config. With SuperAI on they can be very smart and very often suicidal. :D

[11aTony 0]

I was playing A2 a bit yesterday and I have to say that this AI is too much. We were playing on regular difficulty so enemy private was 0.60. Anyway, their suppresion fire looks like they kill you with first shot even you are hiding behind bush a lot of times. Then I can barely see anything in the grass, snipers are almost undetectable when in prone but AI sees everything. I fired few shots around enemy abrams from 500m away. I was between two bushes really tight and his commander just sniped me with first bullet. I mean Im not some rookie but this is nearly impossible. Enemy soldier is firing on you in prone in grass 150-200m away and you are looking directly in him and just cant see him a lot of times. But you are getting hit. Muzzle flashes are invisible on that distance. Hell, they are barely visible when you look at your own. Another thing is that they are all snipers. No matter if he has AK, M4 or MG. On 500m they hit you without any problems and you are in grass. Only thing that helps a bit are threes and small stone walls. In towns AI is quite OK but out on the open I think humman rifle squad dont stand a chance against AI rifle squad.

Edited July 4, 2009 by 11aTony

[NoRailgunner 0]

In towns AI is quite OK but out on the open I think humman rifle squad dont stand a chance against AI rifle squad.

Depends on how you are engaging AI squads - dont use the direct/frontal attack - observe and use the terrain before you start the fire. Usually human players are better than AI with no imagination.

What is still bad - if you with AI and they start the firework even if they set on "Stealth" + "Hold fire" :rolleyes:

[11aTony 0]

In open space there is nothing else then frontal attack, you feel me? My point is that AI aim is supreme and they see everything trough everything. Hummans sure kick ass if there is ability to flank.

[jw custom 56]

They dont have a perfect "aimbot" - maybe you should try different tactics and see how the AI really (re-) acts! ;)

If its too difficult for you try to lower AI skills in options or in your profile config. With SuperAI on they can be very smart and very often suicidal. :D

Different tactics????

I'm talking about you have been shooting at the enemy and have been compromized, now you have to re-locate but no matter where you run and how much you try to be outta enemy sight they ALWAYS know your new location and where your head will pop up, now thats almost a aimbot that follow you behind 5 houses, 15 bushes and 100's of other objects.

I have make my own maps and it has no effect what-so-ever if i set enemy units skill to lowest. Take a T-90, once it's alert(maybe because you have been shooting at other enemies) it's almost impossible to try engage it from any angle even though you know you have been sneaking around it... when you put your head in the open it's gone.. arghh

I know this thread is about snipers, but the AI god mode is against all classes!

[NeMeSiS 11]

AI doesn't have a lot of detection "modes". It either knows exactly where you are, looks at your general direction or has no clue where you are. Maybe there's more (I remember someone saying AI knowledge of a target has an integer value from 0-4) but nothing I've noticed. That "discreteness" makes some situations rather weird and make testing a bit difficult.

You forgot the 'Thinks they know exactly where you are but their percieved position of you differs from your real position'. Which is basically always when they cant see you due to the feature you already described.

[Grunks 10]

I've noticed this myself having been playing some evolution to get a feel for the game and how things work. (I'm new to ArmA :P)

However, at one point I found myself a sniper rifle and a nice tall tower to climb up. From up there, I managed to snipe most of an enemy squad at about roughly 500m maybe more and not once did they fire back or appear to know my location. I then tested this by firing on the AA vehicle that was about 200m away in the other direction and it didn't even look at me after about 60 rounds had hit it. However, in other situations where i've tried sniping from behind a tree i've been killed after firing one shot and i've also been blow out the sky by AA at over 2000m while barely off the gound in a chopper.