Petition for mouse fix ~!

[bender316 10]

ridiculous post, noone cares about your ranking omg. and no to your petition, ths is not a CS clone or anything like that, its a realistic tactical game. go back to BF2 pls.

So what if some of us like others FPS. I also like slow past stuff and would like it to have good mouse movement like any other game

[Leopardi 0]

Because what I see is weapon inertia, not mouse lag.

What you see is mouse lag, what can be fixed by changing settings. Something's wrong.

[dmarkwick 261]

In that video yes, but I've not ever seen it.

If it can be fixed with settings, then it is fixed right? The problem goes away? Otherwise this thread is in the wrong forum, should be in Troubleshooting.

[maxter 10]

There is already a thread about this in the troubleshooting section which is linked at least two times in here already.

The problem is that even though this only happens to some people, it happens to people with all different kinds of systems, OS, mouses, FPS, etc, so it can't be purely clientside, so to speak. Though some say they get a small decrease in lag when boosting their FPS (by lowering settings or whatever), it's still noticable, and having to get 100+ FPS to be able to aim properly isn't really how it's supposed to be. If it's indeed caused by the game's mouse acc, which seems most likely, an option to turn it off would be sufficient. I hope the engine allows this to be implemented without much work.

[Leopardi 0]

In that video yes, but I've not ever seen it.

If it can be fixed with settings, then it is fixed right? The problem goes away? Otherwise this thread is in the wrong forum, should be in Troubleshooting.

10000m is unplayable on most computers.

[poitings 0]

If find it rediculous that some people accept the terrible mouse problem in Arma1 & 2 on grounds that it makes them focus on other things. How about if it had no graphics, just a black screen? Would that be ok because it forces you to use hearing more strategically. Just saying it's a silly justification is all.

Look, Arma2 looks totally awesome and I love the guys at Bohemia; i gave a huge chunk of my life to OpFlash which ran great on my first graphics card which had a Kyro2 chip in it. ;) But after playing the demo and seeing the same horrible mouse input (which caused me not to buy Arma1 even though I was looking forward to it) I just can't buy the full Arma2.

It's a debate about hwo to represent the cross hairs etc. In some sniper games they have it swaying a bit 'to simulate breathing etc' but the human brain/mind is very much aware that the physical mouse 'IS NOT' swaying so actually by doing that you are making the experience far, far more unrealistic. But anyway there will always be those who disagree.

The main point is when i move the mouse and the view is either sluggish or violently whips this way and that it's about the worst thing to have in a game. I can put up with a lot of bugs in a great game; I played Hidden & Dangerous1 all the way through back in the day despite dropping through the floor every third step. I can't tollerate not having absolute control over where I'm aiming though. A massive amount of mental and emotinal energy and enthusiasm is drained by the frustration of trying to get the ret to go where you want it. On top of that the brain causes the arm to tense up and the hand to grip hard and you end up with arm cramp.

Whatever resources the different features of the game hog why dont they just make the mouse-reticule the absolute priority which no other feature is allowed to detract from. then if there is not enough cpu cycles let the graphics or sound suffer at some point. It's all very well if the game is making damn sure that a tree is drawn just right but i lose control of my aim all the time.

Here's one lost customer until this get's fixed in this game or Arma3. I was planning to buy Arma2 'and' OpFlash 2. Somehow I don't think OpFlash2 will have the same mouse problem so don't make excuses. And I don't want to have to go into complex menue and file config to tweak it. Just fix it.

I want to enjoy both games but as things stand Arma2 is out and OpFlash still has my expectation. Make a serious change to what very many of use have wanted since Arma1 as far as mouse control goes and we'll come back.

It's hard to believe that after losing tens of thousands of customers for Arma1 because of this issue they went and made it just as bad in Arma2.

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 AM ----------

On a psychological note. When you navigate the web and the next page is just laggy, it takes longer than it would take you to turn the page in a magazine we naturally experience frustration. You can't say it's just ten seconds so why be picky. The fact is that the brain/mind experiences discomfort when time or energy is wasted even if it's a tiny amount. If you use a massive amount of time and energy and you are aware that it's most effient way you might get tired but you don't get frustrated as you got the best possible return for your investment of energy, time, focus, concentration etc.

Small frustrations can have massive impact. If we play Arma2 and every few seconds we feel that tiny drain on our patience and we feel a constant flow of frustration then that is about the worst thing to feel in a game. Eventually when you think about playing it you just feel all the frustration you are gonna experience every time you move the mouse. Eventually the anticipation of frustration outweighs the anticipation of fun.

Fix it.

[jw custom 56]

I want to enjoy both games but as things stand Arma2 is out and OpFlash still has my expectation. Make a serious change to what very many of use have wanted since Arma1 as far as mouse control goes and we'll come back.

:bye:

[Student Pilot 0]

...I'm beginning to think this community is no better than the CS kiddies everyone scoffs at.

Some (many) of us have a genuine problem but are cast aside because mouse lag is apparently realistic and those of us who refuse to give in just don't have the leet haxor skillz necessary to handle a realistic simulation. Those of you with this attitude are just as frustrating as this problem is...

Here's hoping BIS isn't as short-sighted, arrogant, and insulting as many in this thread have been.

-Student Pilot

[Wynthorpe 10]

I to have mouse lag problems and i have a very hefty system, its nothing to do with trying to simulate weapon weight, its just bad programming!

[Student Pilot 0]

I just did a test and compared OFP to Arma. I would compare it to ArmaII, but my comp really cannot handle it. However, it seems the mouse control hasn't changed.

In Arma there was a definite lag of around 1/4 second or so. This means that I would move the mouse, and the pointer would begin moving about 1/4 second later. This may not sound like much, but it makes the game feel slow and clunky. Not to mention that the problem gets worse when FPS drops.

In OFP there was NO noticeable lag at all. As soon as I moved the mouse the pointer moved. OFP feels perfectly balanced control-wise; it does not have the slow clunky aiming feel that Arma has.

Here are my comp specs for those who may want to know:

1.80GHz Intel Core 2 processor

2.5 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS with 128MB memory

Cheap little microsoft mouse with a sample rate of 200 reports/second

Both OFP and Arma run fine on my system with little or no noticeable lag.

-Student Pilot

[maddogx 13]

In Arma there was a definite lag of around 1/4 second or so. This means that I would move the mouse, and the pointer would begin moving about 1/4 second later. This may not sound like much, but it makes the game feel slow and clunky. Not to mention that the problem gets worse when FPS drops.

Yup, that is the actual mouse lag problem - a bug that some people do experience and BIS are apparently working to fix. I briefly experienced the same problem in ArmA1 so I know very well what you're talking about. It was definitely very frustrating.

I no longer have this problem in A1 or A2, but it is still clear that both games impose several limitations on player movement. For example it is impossible to do a split-second 180° turn like in other games, no matter how high your mouse sensitivity is set. This is an actual built in game limitation, not a bug. The same goes for weapon weighting and the simulation of inertia, which will make heavier weapons more difficult to aim with and is fairly realistic.

While I sympathise with your problem, I believe the OP was talking about removing the features I described in my second paragraph, not fixing the mouselag bug some people are experiencing. Look at the first post:

...lack of the split second precision needed to be a real competitive game. ...

In competitive gaming you need to be able to hit those split second flicks using muscle memory.

Sounds to me like the OP simply wants to turn Arma2 into a twitch shooter, i.e. split-second 180° turn and instant headshot with an M240. That's the reason why people without the mouselag problem don't take him seriously.

[maxter 10]

Here's a video showing the problem, credits to FlunkyMonkey

Now I'd really like to see the people saying "it's a feature" or "this isnt CS you just sux" confirm that they are experiencing this same delay. Cause I seriously doubt it. And I seriously doubt they'd just shut up and accept it as "realism" if they did.

Also, again, there's already a thread for this in troubleshooting.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74085&page=26

Edited July 9, 2009 by maxter

[BloodRaideN 10]

Arma2 isn't and never will be a twitch shooter.

+1

Tactical Military Simulator.

Not First Person Shooter.

[funkee 0]

Arma2 isn't and never will be a twitch shooter... Tactical Military Simulator... Not First Person Shooter.

so "Tactital Military Simulator" cannot be in first person perspective. and it can't be smooth and lag free just because this is a "Tactital Military Simulator". have you ever played Falcon4 or DCS: Blackshark? try and see what a real "Military Simulator" is and how smooth it can be.

The only thing that make ArmA2 close to simulator is that it has complete battlefield (there is infantry, vehicles and airaft), but all that stuff is unrealistic and arcade - like.

I'll never buy this if mouse lag issue is not resolved.:aa:

Edited July 9, 2009 by funkee

[Leopardi 0]

+1

Tactical Military Simulator.

Not First Person Shooter.

-2

Mouse lag is unrealistic.

Period.

[maddogx 13]

Guys, there are two different issues here. Some people here seem to be discussing them interchangably because they just don't understand the difference.

- Mouse lag is a bug.

- Weapon inertia and turn speed restriction are features.

If you don't like the mouse lag, petition for it to be fixed. It obviously isn't realistic and no one is arguing that it doesn't exist.

Weapon inertia and movement/turn speed restrictions however are there for a good reason - and they are an entirely separate issue. If you want to play a game where you can spin around and headshot someone before he can even blink, Arma2 is not a game for you.

[ebud 18]

The problem is that in some of the vids all I see is someone who cranked up the settings and they get a combo of mouse lag, performance lag AND weapon inertia. I have a mid/low range system as well as 2 co-workers and non of us have these issues.

People should also use a pistol in the vids as there is little, if any noticeable inertia for them so it will be easier to tell what the cause is.

Some people are confusing the issue and tbh in most vids I see, if the user would lower their settings OR use this

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1301578&postcount=1

then they would not have much of an issue.

Edit: Just watched a bunch of weapon sight vids on youtube of COD4, HD2, HL2 Insurgency etc and the weapons in this engine will NEVER play like that no matter what you try, it's built in.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Ebud

[funkee 0]

If you don't like the mouse lag, petition for it to be fixed. It obviously isn't realistic and no one is arguing that it doesn't exist. Weapon inertia and movement/turn speed restrictions however are there for a good reason - and they are an entirely separate issue. If you want to play a game where you can spin around and headshot someone before he can even blink, Arma2 is not a game for you.

omg how to headshot before he "can even blink" if my optics move? this is not so easy even without lag. it has nothing to do with accuracy, it has to do with smoothness and overall feeling of playing the game.

we petition for this for 17 pages on this, and 26 on the other thread (which has over 16.100 views now!) and mouse lag fix is still 0% done: link !!!

Edited July 9, 2009 by funkee

[whisper 0]

this is being looked into ... {just You don't feel ignored}

Again, quoting the only important piece of information of the whole thread : BI is looking into this issue

[funkee 0]

are you BI spieler? cuz I prefer to hear this from one of the developers, not from you (sorry).

Edited July 9, 2009 by funkee

[maddogx 13]

omg how to headshot before he "can even blink" if my optics move? this is not so easy even without lag. it has nothing to do with accuracy, it has to do with smoothness and overall feeling of playing the game.

we petition for this for 17 pages on this, and 26 on the other thread (which has over 16.100 views now!) and mouse lag fix is still 0% done: link !!!

You're taking what I said much too literally.

Anyway, 0% done on the DH bugtracker means absolutely nothing. BIS do not regularly provide updates of their progress there. For all we know, the mouse lag problem may already be fixed, but we won't see it till the next patch. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[funkee 0]

For all we know, the mouse lag problem may already be fixed, but we won't see it till the next patch

so what the hell are these forums for? I thought for foster dialogue between devs and community? is this so difficult to write 1 ****in post and refer to the issue? :confused: I suppose they silence cuz just cant do anything and it will never be fixed. Edited July 9, 2009 by funkee

[DeZzErX 0]

Guys, there are two different issues here. Some people here seem to be discussing them interchangably because they just don't understand the difference.

- Mouse lag is a bug.

- Weapon inertia and turn speed restriction are features.

If you don't like the mouse lag, petition for it to be fixed. It obviously isn't realistic and no one is arguing that it doesn't exist.

Weapon inertia and movement/turn speed restrictions however are there for a good reason - and they are an entirely separate issue. If you want to play a game where you can spin around and headshot someone before he can even blink, Arma2 is not a game for you.

Quoted so other can see this again! I agree, people with the bug should be helped. People wanting to remove inertia and turn speed restricition should bugger off.

[Rhodite 3]

OK ladies and gentlemen.

I am going to lock this thread for a couple of hours, to give you all time to cool your jets.

Do NOT create another thread.