Helicopter addict in trouble :(

[Roodkapje 10]

Dear fellow helicopter addicts,

I couldn't wait for the DEMO to arrive and to pretty much test 1 thing and 1 thing only : The helicopters :D

But... I am having some problems which I can't really sort out and it's keeping me away from buying ArmA 2 and playing the MP part with fellow FPS addicts =>

- I can get in the air and so it seems even hover a bit but the main problem I am having is loosing altitude and crashing into trees or ground while I am pretty much sure the specific moment at that moment shouldn't cause a crash.

- Turning in the helicopters is a real PITA : I have even mapped my Logitech G25 pedals to the L+R pedals and press/move my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro wrist handle at the same time but it takes ages to turn ...

- A decent landing with the BlackHawk is also a pain... I keep damaging it or approaching too fast :(

Could someone tell me what I am doing wrong ?? I understood the speed controls are digital instead of analog at the moment : Could this be the cause ?!

FYI : I have quite some history in Battlefield 2 helicopters or as most of us call them "choppers" and there pretty much isn't anything I can't do with them within game limits ;)

I would like to move on to ArmA 2 because it would give me more realism for both me and my main gunner and hopefully our main jet wingman too :D

#1 reason is the size of ArmA 2 by the way and the possibilities it gives for vehicle addicts.

I have also played Delta Force Land Warrior in the past so ArmA 2 should cover some of those infantry aspects ;)

... also I have skipped ArmA 1 because of low online player counts... sorry !!

[nodunit 397]

If you are having trouble in piloting the helicopter with your flight stick I would suggest trying it with the mouse and keyboard to see if you get the same results.

I have a logitech wingman myself and later in Arma I found my turning ability was getting difficult, worse then that for whatever reason my right 'pedal' was stuck so my helicopter would constantly turn, it was like trying to control a helicopter without a tail rotor full time.

Anyway if the keyboard and mouse setup works it might be time to look into another, or play the game, unplug the device and plug it back in as that sometimes works, one thing to keep in mind however is that the rudder on helicopters has little authority once the speed gets going.

[KeyCat 131]

Another tip, slow down your speed before trying to change heading with rudders and the rudders have more effect (as in RL).

/KC

[Fenrir 10]

Hehe as a fellow flying addict in arma....heres some tips :)

1. When it comes to flying Choppers, i find it's always best to fly using keyboard and mouse. It's much easier using the mouse to control the Helicopter, while using the keyboard to change hight using q/z, and also making fine adjustments to control using wsad, and x,c.

2.NEVER try to land anywhere near trees if you can help it ^^ If its a must, then make sure theres a good clearing and decend as slowly as possible. If it looks like your going to hit something, then increase altidude and try again. If your just flying and trying to keep low, then keep an eye on the trees, however also keep an eye on your altidudes level of descent etc. If it looks like you going too low, press q for a short while (if using keyboard and mouse) just to increase the altidude that tiny bit more again.

3.Turning speed tends to be affected on the speed your traveling at. At fast speeds, banking is easier while rudder control is slower. At slower, Rudder control is easier however banking is still quite fast so be careful not to lose control.

4.When ever it comes to approach a landing, always tend to point your nose up ever so slightly at about 200-300m out, and hold down z while doing so, as not to gain too much hight. If you overshoot a bit, then just slowly turn youself while decending until your level. Once your hovering, or just before, enable auto hover then just slowly decend.

4+. If in a combat situation where you need to land fast, then come in as low as you can without causing risk to the aircraft, and follow the process above, only raising your nose when your a bit further out, and making extra sure you done go to high. Do this just so your low and slow enough so that, when you come to land, touch down a few metres away from your target, and you should just slide forwards a bit, while recieving minimal damage. For this part, i find it easier to imagine i'm landing a plane rather that a chopper, while still knowing that it has limitations :)

All of this does take practise though, and it wont ever be successful every time. But just keep at it, sometimes i might dump a few helos in the editor to mess around with, seeing how fast i can land without causing much damage etc.

[adumb 0]

The part you said about Delta Force Land Warrior had me rolling on the floor, thanks bud.

[aussieterry84 10]

FYI : I have quite some history in Battlefield 2 helicopters or as most of us call them "choppers" and there pretty much isn't anything I can't do with them within game limits ;)

LOL well there's ur problem right there! BF2 is an arcade game where you get some auto stabilisation in teh choppers (can you do full rolls and loops?).

ArmA II is as close as you can get to a flight simulator without it being a full flight sim. YOu have to treat it like you are REALLY flying, you have to treat your choppers with TLC, you hit the ground to hard, then its gonna damage like a chopper hitting the ground to hard in real life.

[nodunit 397]

In BF2 yes you can do rolls and loops, loops are not very practical, however loops were commonly used in dogfights.

As for stabilizing the helicopter there was no auto in it, you had to do it manually however it wasn't difficult, you could easily go from a high speed dive to a full stop very easily.

I tried it the same way in ArmaII's demo yesterday just for the heck of it and lost control of the helicopter which I imagine is what would happen in reality.

Aside from that BF2's helo controls weren't as 'eggy' as ArmaII's. You could pivot the mouse around and it took far more movement to move the helicopters pitch however in ArmaII it's far far more sensitive which I have been told by pilots in flight shows is how it actually is and I imagine it would be, it only makes sense it would be very sensitive.

One thing I can say definately about ArmaII helo's flight model is that you NEVER handle it like you would a bf2 chopper, if you try to go from a speedy to sudden stop landing you will either crash or lose control in some way.

Edited June 27, 2009 by NodUnit

[Sabrefox 0]

BF2 'Helicopters' were terrible, they were dumbed down so much, it made them weightless and restricted.

[ajsarge 10]

The other issue is that ArmA2 treats the engines in the game by accelerating them. Thus, if you want to use your joystick your throttle is treated as a pair of buttons with no analog input. It should be a system where "accelerating/decelerating" affects your current thrust power (idle-50%-100%-103%) on a slider. Add in analog controls and none of the high-speed wobble you get in the planes, and you've got yourself a very nice flight model.

And the best helicopters in the BF series were the ones in the Desert Combat mod for BF42. Just the right amount of control, and you didn't get auto-hover that helped the newbies. The only way I really was ever killed was by suicide jets.

Edited June 27, 2009 by AJsarge

[MGB 10]

I can't fly Arma2 heli's at all - I'm all over the place when it comes to fine manoeuvring - yet I have no trouble flying DCS Black Shark (which is apparently almost lifelike).

Hmm... maybe it's the contra-rotor setup.

[whisper 0]

I can't fly Arma2 heli's at all - I'm all over the place when it comes to fine manoeuvring - yet I have no trouble flying DCS Black Shark (which is apparently almost lifelike).

Hmm... maybe it's the contra-rotor setup.

Changing the keys is a must. Using rudders control (pedal left/pedal right) instead of "turn left / Turn right" for example.

Then, collective is treated diffrently, as said above a fixed collective settings in A2 doesn't mean a fixed power/rotor incidence applied. It applies a fixed "force up", which is not realistic.

Then, no advanced effect is simulated, you don't need to juggle with all controls to counteract perpetually side effects of X control change on Y control output, etc... :) It should definitely be easier than flying the wonderfull BlackShark

[Mc Speedfreak 10]

personally i love the way the choppers handle... made me realise how "dumbed down" they were with ACE... hopefully they will NOT be touched with the next ACE release...

i fly with mouse @200dpi for banking, keyboard for pitching and a accelerator pad for thrust... works a treat.

[dave317 0]

I have no trouble flying DCS black shark either but the heli's in ARMA2 are very hard to control. The collective needs alot of work imo as fast diving rocket attacks usually end up with me in the trees.

[An-225 0]

The helicopters seem to have somewhat respectable flight models, at least in the ArmA 2 demo. Or maybe its just the fact that I'm using rudder pedals and my joystick now. The time it takes to gain or lose altitude is perfect.

The helicopters that I've flown in the demo need a little more yaw authority, particularly at 150km/h, the nose will do more than just buffet slightly. And the yaw has been dampened too far at slower speeds, of 130/100 or 80km/h. But otherwise, the flight model is fine and a lot closer to what you fly in Black Shark (minus the systems of course).

And I'll also say that I find it easier to fly in Black Shark - it certainly isn't the contra-rotating setup however.

[Ferox 0]

If you are having trouble in piloting the helicopter with your flight stick I would suggest trying it with the mouse and keyboard to see if you get the same results.

In op flash and when I first started playing Arma I was always insistant on using my joystick, but then I gave the keyboard and mouse a few tries and never went back. Not only is it easier to land the chopper imo, I don't have to keep switching everything around. The only thing I miss is using the hat switch to move my view on landing, but the way my controls are configured I can basically do that with the keyboard.

[Mc Speedfreak 10]

L Alt is default for free look.. that works fine.

[retrofly 0]

Stange I found the choppers in Arma 2 the easiest by far, even easier than BF2.

Luke

[RoccoDW 10]

As a bit of an aviation nut, i've flown nearly every flightsim there is (apart from this Blackshark i keep hearing about)

For me the choppers in Arma2 are great, the momentum and weight feels right and i find it just slightly easier than full flightsims (FSX for example) The throttle controls doesnt bother me as much as it does in the jets where it needs at least 50 - 60% throttle just to taxi! As long as the blades clear the trees i can land in the smallest clearings. With autohover it is even easier. maybe too easy.

If you can fly well in a flightsim you wont have any issues in Arma2 however if you can fly well in BF2 you still need to put in a bit of training before you'll be an effective pilot.

[Amuro 10]

Are you guys sure the "no pedal effect" in a light helicopter in motion is realistic? In DCS Blackshark, I can change heading with rudder easily at all times.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Amuro

[whisper 0]

Ka-50 is kind of an exception, its strafing ability are way higher than your average tail-rotor chopper.

But yes, I think loss of rudder authority is still overdone in A2. note it was way worse in A1 ;)

[kenjara 0]

I use a 360 controller for flying helicopters. Works great with tiggers as accend descend and sticks to fly. Main thing i recommend for new pilots is slowing down before trying to use the rudders. Rudders do not work at speed.

[nomdeplume 0]

Are you guys sure the "no pedal effect" in a light helicopter in motion is realistic?

Very interesting... in the demo at around 200 kph I had around 30 degrees of rudder authority (in each direction, I think). It didn't alter your direction so much as just where you were facing, and felt pretty good.

In DCS Blackshark, I can change heading with rudder easily at all times.

I think one of the main benefits of the contrarotating design is that you do get much better acrobatic performance than a traditional helicopter.

Still, I think there is something wrong with the helo controls in the full game where the rudder does virtually nothing. Very interesting.

The demo build is 1.02.58127. The latest patch is 1.02.58134, so it seems the patch is slightly newer. Even more bizarre!

[MBot 0]

The one tip I can give you for Arma 2 is to depend only on the collective for controlling altitude and not the cyclic. The influence pitch has on your climb-/sinkrate seems to be very undermodeled in Arma 2. In DCS: Black Shark you can easely follow the terrain by using the cyclic only. Trading a little speed for a little alt and vica versa. Flying like that in Arma 2 gets you killed.

[Crazy Chris 10]

I think there also needs to be some consideration of the type of heli you are piloting. I personally miss the little birds from A1. They were so much fun to fly and very useful to learn with. Even the Huey in A2 is (rightly so) much more sluggish and I think far less forgiving for newer pilots. However, after several hours on the editor I'm now comfortable in all the aircraft using keyboard and mouse. :bounce3::bounce3:

[datter 0]

Key things about flying helicopters:

1. You do not fly a real helicopter with a mouse and keyboard for a reason. Use a joystick.
   
2. Configure your controls correctly. Notably:
   

• Throttle up (throttle forward)
  
  
• Throttle down (throttle back)
  
  
• Nose down (joystick forward)
  
  
• Nose up (joystick backward)
  
  
• Bank left (joystick left)
  
  
• Bank right (joystick right)
  
  
• Turn left
  and
  left pedal (rudder left)
  
  
• Turn right
  and
  right pedal (rudder right)
  
  

Pay special attention to the bank and turn set up for left/right joystick and rudder (twisty stick or pedals). That's key. After that set up your views on your hat (up/up, left/left etc). Once in the helo double tap the alt key to give you free look and try flying. Note how you can move left/right as expected and also have nice rudder authority this way. Also note that most helos lose a lot of this rudder authority over 150knts so keep the speed under that if you expect to be maneuvering a lot.

Set up like this I can fly pirouettes around a pine tree. Hope it helps.