Weapon transition (THIS IS IMPORTANT)

[Provac 0]

Only reason I say its important is because I think it is. I don't know if a plan is in motion to change this at 505 release (doubtfully) but weapon transition in ARMA 2 is horrible!

When in a active combat situation does a soldier take the time to put the rifle on his back then draw his sidearm. Some may say why use sidearm, tactically its used to draw when you don't have time to change a mag in your rifle. Say your team mate is also out of bullets you have to have a quick access backup. That's why a soldier every considering carrying a sidearm.

As it stands now its faster to reload than do a quick pull of your sidearm.

Now a quick fix to this is possible mainly because the transition animations needed are already in the game. Me and my buddy noticed the transition between main weapon and binoculars where the soldier drops his rifle leaving it hanging at the chest then pulling his binos. THAT'S IT! we were so flabbergasted that you didn't just use that system for weapon transition in the first place.

1. Step one, change the transition animation for rifle to gun with the same animation from rifle to binos.

2. Cut the animation speed of the transition by alot. A skilled soldier should be able to draw his sidearm in about 1 second. 2-3 frames on the drop and whatever frames on the sidearm pull to make it a total of 1 second.

problem solved, realism heightened and everyone is happy.

Thanks for reading and make it happen :D

edit!

oh yeah, make it possible to do while moving as well... thanks again. Now get to it :p

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Good ideas. I also think that reload times are far too quick, at least for machine-guns.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Well...

I think 1 sec. for drawing a sidearm up to "ready to fire" is too little. Maybe correct for Spec Ops, certainly not for your average Squad Leader.

Second, as far as I know sidearms are mostly used for indoor searches, traffic stops and for being "less confronting" to the civilian population. I don't know any Army that teaches it's regular soldiers (not spec ops) to revert to side arm when they can't change the mag quick enough. At the usual engagement ranges of 50+ meters it wouldn't make much sense either.

Last, if you were to use the sidearm for room clearing or in other restricted spaces, you don't want the rifle to hang from it's sling in front of you, you want it packed away cleanly. So that's actually two very different ideas on how to use a sidearm, and what to do with the rifle meanwhile - the quick backup, or the prepared use of a weapon that's easier to carry.

I don't think your idea is a bad one, but it's not a "one size fits all" thing. And for average soldiers, you'd need longer time to draw, AND make the reload times realistic on the rifles.

[11aTony 0]

I agree. However, being able to switch to sidearm and AT while moving (like reloading now) is a must. There have been descussions about this in the past before a2 was released and I am really surprised that they only made it possible for reloading while moving and not switching while moving. Not necessary while running but atleast walking.

[Provac 0]

Second, as far as I know sidearms are mostly used for indoor searches, traffic stops and for being "less confronting" to the civilian population. I don't know any Army that teaches it's regular soldiers (not spec ops) to revert to side arm when they can't change the mag quick enough. At the usual engagement ranges of 50+ meters it wouldn't make much sense either.

Last, if you were to use the sidearm for room clearing or in other restricted spaces, you don't want the rifle to hang from it's sling in front of you, you want it packed away cleanly.

This is true, regular army doesn't carry sidearms (at least none that i know off) because they usually operate in bigger groups and at longer distances from time to time. Clearing towns and rooms is perfectly doable with rifle only. I don't see much use in carrying a sidearm in a long range engagement either as its kind of pointless and you would probably go for changing a mag rather than pull a sidearm at longer ranges.

But since its arma2 and you can choose to carry a sidearm on any soldier they should really make the transition from rifle to sidearm realistic. In a quick transition 1 second might sound fast and sure for most it might be unrealistic. I guess it would be a random 1-2 seconds depending on your situation.

Anyways here are some transition videos on youtube (not the best but it shows how it should be done weapon hanging pull sidearm for those vital shots)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngBHTzRJZvA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfjT5-P65g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFn7eIwIxFg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xPKslgoa44&feature=related

And I agree on some of the reload times as well, at least the heavier guns.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Erm... 1 second transitions comes very close CS gameplay style. Its possible to get the weapon ready 2-3 seconds mostly under ideal conditions - like a peaceful firing range. In combat and under pressure its another story. Same goes to "changing AT weapons during walk" - maybe it looks cool but its not safe.

[dreday 1]

Ideally, the sidearm transition speed should be dirrectly proportional to the unit's (soldier's) experience. This should also be the case for the reloading speed.

Honestly though, I see these as very low priority improvements, considerting that they would have minimal impact on the gameplay.

If it was up to me, I would rather have BIS focus on preventing the "on the move" reloads for the MGs and significantly increasing the reload times for the MGs. This would introduce much more realism, and bring more balance to the gameplay.

Peace,

DreDay

[11aTony 0]

Well smaw or javeling not but switching to m136 could be done like I said. When you go behind cover to switch to sidearm or at and you find yourself just step or two not behind cover enough you would just move a bit. Not for running around and switching weapons all the time and play rambo. Small corrections. In open space areas it doesnt matter anyway but in urban combat it would be very helpful. No CS to be clear.

Lenght of transition is great as it is for me. Reloading even too fast maybe.

Edited June 10, 2009 by 11aTony

[Provac 0]

Its possible to get the weapon ready 2-3 seconds mostly under ideal conditions - like a peaceful firing range. In combat and under pressure its another story.

I have to disagree with this one.

A soldier utilizing a sidearm in the first place has probably been drilled in the art of transition to the point where drawing his sidearm is second nature. His transition a pure situational reaction, if he hears the click and sees an enemy pop up in front of him within range already calculated by his brain sending signal to his arm to pick up that gun and fire.

Chances him fumbling his draw in anyway so minimal its a cookie cutter reaction. That transition will happen so fast you probably wouldn't believe it. A regular gun nut on the shooting range might mess it up more but a soldier perfected to the art would probably be much more proficient.

Usually symptoms of stress comes after a fight when his adrenaline has gone.

Now im of course talking a little more elite than the regular army grunt who's probably not carrying a sidearm anyways. I rarely draw my sidearm in game if ever, but its a feature that should be simulated correctly to be effective. The only reason you would consider drawing a sidearm now is if your rifle is out of bullets.

[celery 8]

Erm... 1 second transitions comes very close CS gameplay style. Its possible to get the weapon ready 2-3 seconds mostly under ideal conditions - like a peaceful firing range. In combat and under pressure its another story. Same goes to "changing AT weapons during walk" - maybe it looks cool but its not safe.

I guess real life is quite arcade then, huh? One second is still an eternity in a fight, it's not the blink of an eye it's usually thought as. It's one second, 1/60 of a minute.

Slow is not realistic if real life is faster.

[frederf 0]

One second might be slightly faster than reality but two seconds is far too slow. One second is longer than you think ("one-one thousand.") You also have to include the time that it takes to actually reach the key on our keyboard into the overall total.

[.kju 3245]

You can easily tweak anims/transition speeds. Are you up for it?

[frederf 0]

Are the people that we pay to make the game up to it?

[.kju 3245]

Not sure ;)

[galzohar 31]

Don't mix up pistol transition speeds with other weapon transition speeds. Having realistic transition to pistol does not turn the game into CS. If you have a quick transition like the pistol one should be for all weapons, THEN you'd have CS. Getting that rocket launcher (or sniper rifle, especially if it's in a backpack) off your back takes a LOT longer than the 1 second it takes to draw that pistol.

[soldier9945 12]

It's just a PITA (Pain in the A**) to switch to a RPG-7 and back!

It's as if your character was like: "Yeah? Should I switch to the RPG?... okay..." (and you're like): "BUT THERES AN ENNEMY SOLDIER, SWITCH BACK!!!! FAST!!!" and he's like: "what? I don't care, I need to finish my animation... so.... that's going here... and that there... well, okay, I think I'm done. WHAT? You already changed the weapon back? oh... okay, I'll switch, please wait..."

I mean, okay, you can't switch in 1second in real life, but then, if you were taking that RPG from your back, and you see the ennemy in front of you, you'll quickly throw the rpg back on your back or even on the ground to pick up your main or hand gun, no?

So maybe the animations shouldn't be so "robotic" by introducing the ability to throw away away weapons in the middle of an animation to quickly get the one you had before, or just be able to cancel that move so you can be faster...

I DON'T want to have a CS feeling, that's not my point. Just a smoother gameplay, because seriously, when you look at the animations (like the new one when you go over a wall or such) it's just like in old ArmA times... I'M A MISTA' ROBOT ;)

[frederf 0]

Agree on the "interuptable" actions. Do people still finish the "get RPG off back" animation before firing or has that finally been fixed in A2?

[soldier9945 12]

Agree on the "interuptable" actions. Do people still finish the "get RPG off back" animation before firing or has that finally been fixed in A2?

It has not, I'm playing the german release patched to v1.01... this feels just like ArmA1.. :(

[NoRailgunner 0]

2 seconds for an average grunt is fast enough. ;)

Agree that movement and transitions could be better and smoother.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I remember some scenes in BlackHawkDown, those Deltas switched to pistol in 0.5 sec i believe. And these are trained actors, not actual Deltas. So 1 sec would be cool i guess.

Dunno how many times i've been killed in ArmA while waiting for Animations to finish.

"Wait for the animation until finished" - HAHA get the irony? :D

[Provac 0]

Agree on the "interuptable" actions. Do people still finish the "get RPG off back" animation before firing or has that finally been fixed in A2?

ha ha ha, this brings back memory of a recon mission me and a buddy made that we were testing out. After the target had gone through our checkpoint and task force moved in on a target town we were tasked humping it down and clear the checkpoint and cover it in case the targets tried to flee. Well we got engaged by some silly fudgers and my buddy got hit so I drag his sorry ass down the road. And then he screams about 3 targets in the tree line. I managed to put 2 of them down and had to start fixing him up. And then we hear the freaking snappers coming in and im going oh fudge. I cant do shit while treating this bastard, if I could do a split second abort on that animation I could have popped him but instead I was grabbing my friends virtual crotch and then got a whole freaking magazine emptied in me. It was some tango coming down the road and not the guy in the treeline.

Its so stupid you just have to laugh, in the end I died and he kept bitching and moaning on the road because the AI didn't finish him off. So I pecked on his sorry ass as a crow until he bled out. Stuck in animations is your enemy!

[Jester617 0]

If you have a good sling and a hostler for your pistol ,transitions can be done very quickly, faster than a mag change with a little practice.

rifle to pistol transitions should be very fast

at launchers/ rpg should not fast but the animation should be able to be interpreted along with every other animation in game

[BaseJumper 10]

I support the motion for animations to be "interruptable".

Meaning I should have the option to be able to cancel an action mid-way.

Example: While being hidden in a bush - I am trying to ready my AT launcher to hit an Helicopter. Suddenly there's a tank incoming my way. I quickly stop what I'm trying to do (ready my AT launcher), by dropping the AT launcher to the ground, and quickly going prone to avoid detection from the tank.

How does that sound to you ? Acceptable ? :D

[Axel88 10]

I have to say that I was almost universally impressed by the animations and mechanics of almost all ARMA I's features. I was very happy with restrictions placed on the user which forced the player to use foresight and plan the engagement. I have no idea how many times I played "Seize the Base". The weapon aiming method makes other games feel wooden and robotic. If there is anything I could contribute to this discussion it is to ask BI's devs to check out the weapon controls in "Stalker - Cleak Sky" The player has to use even more foresight to plan the engagement with the wrong choice of weapon costing him dearly.

I think weapon change times must be higher rather than lower to encourage the requirement of planning and foresight. For example: Binoculars. These are gonna be useless pretty fast if not stored correctly you dont just flick em to the side use your side arm which just happened to be unclipped and cocked in a holster that just happened to be perfectly unobstructed.

All that so you can get that unlikely headshot on the soldier who calmly planned your demise and should be rewarded for that rather than the insane run and gun to be found in ridiculous games such as BF2.

Rather than discussing the quick draw speeds of various imaginary people I think what needs to be discussed is how YOU the player can use YOUR experience to gain victory.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Axel88
Spelling

[Provac 0]

A professional soldier who happens to have the expertise enough as to get equipped with a sidearm (its the military you serve in that decides what guns you carry (except for the real spec ops)) then that soldier has probably the knowledge and expertise to store his equipment correctly.

This isnt about player reaction or run and gun super switch never run out of ammo kind of thing. Its just aimed towards more realism, im not talking about having someone drop his rifle and pull out his rocket launcher in record time. But the simple fact that when you're transitioning from a rifle to a sidearm you generally don't put your god damn rifle on your back like you're going to school with a packed lunch.

Sidearm is your miniature backup, in a team scenario if your using good tactics you do check drills etc. Pulling your sidearm to keep a constant fire on your targets so that your team mate could reload. The sidearm at best is just buying your time, sometimes you do need it. And it isn't realistic when going from rifle to sidearm that the soldier you are controlling spends more time putting the rifle away than he does reloading his rifle rendering any sidearm useless in ARMA2. Might as well just not make sidearms if your not going to have realistic transitions.

It has just baffled me that they already have the animation state of having the rifle slinged to the chest and not use it for the sidearms as well.

As for times, that's based on experience and realistic averaged transition times should be different for every weapon as well as their reload times.