V-22 Osprey rudder authori-tay

[Red Spar 0]

Either I am doing something wrong or the V-22 has almost no rudder authority. I have plenty of yaw when I use the rudders on helo but almost none while hovering in the Osprey.

Is this a bug or something else?

[frederf 0]

Is it low authority as all speeds? How is it high speed? How is it low speed? Is there a sharp cutoff at any certain speed?

[Nicholas 5]

He's right, you have very little rudder control with the Osprey, and it's hard to do any kind of hovering in it. Same for the F35B. And the C-130 can't turn at all.

[nodunit 397]

Did you install the new patch?

[Nicholas 5]

Yes, new patch installed. Only thing new patch did was enable ground-taxi mdoe for the V-22, which means you take it off of hover mode, and it will taxi like a real plane, the rotars move slightly forward. But that has nothing to do with this. it's when your *hovering* that you have very little control.

[Red Spar 0]

Ugh, so is there any acknowledgment from BIS on this issue?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Does the real thing have "rudder authority" during hover? I mean, no there would be little to no airflow going over the control surface.

[max power 21]

Does the real thing have "rudder authority" during hover? I mean, no there would be little to no airflow going over the control surface.

They manage it using the cyclic. They make one nacelle thrust forward and the other thrust backward.

[An-225 0]

On something like the Harrier, they use an RCS.

However, on a helo like the Chinook or Osprey, yaw is controlled by tilting the rotor disks in opposite directions.

Edited June 8, 2009 by An-225

[Red Spar 0]

Does the real thing have "rudder authority" during hover? I mean, no there would be little to no airflow going over the control surface.

You'd have to or it would be pretty worthless for landing in all but the most open spaces.

Right now the Arma 2 V-22 is impossible to get in and out of tight LZs in any timely fashion.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

The Osprey in real simply can't turn as fast as a helicopter because of it's design.

I'm flying with a Joystick and even with the axis sensibility/range at max the rudders of all aircrafts don't turn to their max deflection like they do if controlled by mouse (on the ground). I guess this is a bug that already appeared with ArmA (1)?

Anyways, you can perform very nice VTOL or rolling starts/landings with the V-22 depending if you chose the "auto hover" function or not and play with the flaps.

Of course it would be great if the "opposite direction" feature mentioned by Max Power would be integrated some day besides some other small tweaks of the generally great flying model(s).

[Red Spar 0]

The Osprey in real simply can't turn as fast as a helicopter because of it's design.

Not true.

This video shows a yaw rate comparable to helicopter. Arma2 is MUCH slower that this...maybe only a few degrees/sec.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Red Spar

[max power 21]

On something like the Harrier, they use an RCS.

For those of us who don't know what an RCS is, it's an array of small rockets or jets that use thrust to control the attitude of an aircraft or spacecraft.

[PELHAM 10]

I know this thread is very old but this one, as a new player, is bugging me, why can't the yaw input for the Osprey be changed? If there is a reason please let me know.

It is not often used in any maps and this is probably because no one can control it properly. I know we are a long way down the road from the initial Arma 2 but I would hope BIS would fix this eventually?

[wipman 1]

Hi, for get something fixed it haves to be reported with the entire thing's reproduction steps in an accurate way with you entire system specs too, on the CIT; but they only seem to be supporting the Operation Arrowhead. The ArmA2 won't ever get another patch probably. Let's C ya

[martyc 10]

Ok guys, I'm new to these forums, but I thought i'd weigh in with my thoughts on why the Osprey behaves the way it does.

First of all I want to address the question of why aircraft turn faster when on the ground than in the air, even if they are at the same speed (say a harrier on landing).

This is pretty much flying 101. in aircraft with tricycle undercarriage, meaning two main landing gear at the back (behind the centre of gravity) and a nose wheel at the front. The nose wheel is connected to the rudder control (via cables or electronics) so when you're on the ground, depressing the rudder will turn the wheel, as well as the control surface, otherwise aircraft would be uncontrollable when taxiing.

Now as for why an Osprey has a very low rate of yaw in/near the hover...

A few fast facts:

1) The Osprey does not have a tail fan! Unlike most helicopters it cannot simply increase/decrease the amount of power to the tail rotor to counteract the torque from the main rotor.

2) The Osprey cannot duct thrust from the engines to the aircrafts extremities to control pitch and yaw like a harrier, it must increase and decrease power to its rotors.

3) Both engines supply power to both rotors, Ospreys have a drive shaft that runs through the wings to connect both engines so in the event of a single engine failure power is available to both rotors. Not completely relevant in this case, but interesting nonetheless.

This one isn't a fact but an educated guess –

4) An Osprey cannot ‘split’ it’s rotors ie – tilt one rotor forward and one rotor backward to produce a yaw effect, if you understand how a helicopter works (worth reading the Wikipedia article if you don’t) then you’ll see that having the rotors producing lift on different axes would most likely create wild and erratic secondary effects of controls. But this is just a guess; maybe it can, which would make the flight control system on this impressive aircraft even more amazing.

The only way that an Osprey would have yaw control at/near the hover would be to increase lift through the front section of one rotor, and balance it with increasing power through the rear section of the other rotor. Sounds simple, but every change in the profile of the rotors corresponds with increases and decreases in rotor angle of attack, rotor and engine RPM changes, torque, and secondary effects of controls.

I’m no aeronautical engineer, but my guess is that heavy pitching and rolling forces would accompany yaw so minimal rates of Yaw are allowed by the flight control system to keep the aircraft controllable. In the YT video posted you can see at the start the Osprey rolling heavily as the rate of Yaw increases.

So in short, why does the Osprey have a really low rate of Yaw? Because it’s really, really complicated, that’s why.

Handling the Osprey in Arma 2 – I agree with the earlier comments that the Osprey is hard to handle and it is under-used in Arma. I think it’s because most people love flying into “hot†LZ’s with all guns blazing; yeah Black Hawk Down was cool, but it is not how airmobile operations work, and it certainly isn’t what the Osprey was designed for. Saying that, learning to fly the Osprey well takes time and is very rewarding. Firstly, learn when to, and when not, engage the auto-hover. The ability to lock the engines in the vertical position means you can decelerate incredibly quickly if need be.

Learn what speeds the engines tilt at, I haven’t flown the Osprey for a while but I think it is around 150 when accelerating and about 180 when decelerating. Also plan your approaches and departures (just like real pilots do) and if you need to turn 90 or 180 degrees on approach or departure, do it early or before you lift off.

When you’ve mastered the Osprey; take it up to ~ 1500 m and put it into a hover over the island of Utes, then cut the throttle to zero and try and land it without any engine power; it’s wicked fun :)

Peace

(through superior firepower)

-Marty

[rangerpl 13]

I don't think the V-22 can tilt its rotors separately, not very easily anyway. I saw a program about it on Military Channel once, they're not rigged for two separate rotors, you have only one set of controls (per pilot, I'm not talking about the Co-Pilot here) for both tilts.

[max power 21]

The Osprey yaws in the hover by varying the amount of torque load on either contra-rotating rotor.

[wolfbite 8]

It essentialy does it like a Chinook......... Thats basically all it is in hover a sideways chinook...

[Ollie1983 10]

Does the real thing have "rudder authority" during hover? I mean, no there would be little to no airflow going over the control surface.

This.

The Osprey is not a helicopter. Nor is the Harrier a helicopter, they are both planks that can take off vertically. In fact, the Osprey cannot land as per a normal aircraft IIRC unless the rotors are tilted back as they would touch the ground???

I don't think the harrier can Yaw like a helo can in hover type flight either?

In the main, VTOL aircraft are a big trade off but their main boast is that they can take off or land from vastly smaller runways etc.

The Osprey was conceived as an aircraft that can fly faster than a helicopter, at longer range but also take off and land in a small space.

[Max255 59]

You must remember that Osprey is "controlled" by computer which just takes commands from pilot. Pilot can order rotors to tilt from 0 to 97.5* by using tilt controls. But they can also tilt backwards, though it's only limited to computer control. Eg. when in hover mode pilot likes to turn the aircraft right so he uses his rudder controls (pedals) to let computer know, then computer knowing that aircraft is in hover tilts left engine, let's say 5* forward and right engine 5* backwards. And tadddaa - you have your Osprey turning. That I think will end the discussion wheter Osprey can turn in hover or how effective it is...

Point of this topic is that comparing to RL, Osprey in A2 turns very slow. Doesn't matter how the turn is done, it should have same turn rate as real one, which (as seen on vid posted earlier) is much higher than what we have now...

Edited March 10, 2011 by Max255[PL]

[max power 21]

What, am I invisible? The mv-22 does not tilt its rotors to yaw, and does not require airflow over its control surfaces.

[Max255 59]

So, what's your version on how Osprey yaws?

And what I wrote up there it's not "my" explanation, I remember watching a vid somewhere and also some article...

EDIT: Found this in wiki (maybe not the best source):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiltrotor#Controls

"Yaw is controlled by tilting its rotors in opposite directions."

Edited March 10, 2011 by Max255[PL]

[jagheterjan 10]

http://books.google.com/books?id=_9Asc0bgm_cC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=%22v-22%22+rudder&source=bl&ots=7PbdROw9X0&sig=jY7W4KlsHqcveooTbPOgW1UZ0vI&hl=de&ei=oRt5TdLPAYbGtAbxprzeBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwATgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

First paragraph has your answer. In a nutshell - direction of movement is controlled via cyclic pitch when airspeed is low, via conventional control surfaces when airspeed is sufficient.

[Max255 59]

Ok, I'm a bit confused about this, anyone care to explain a bit? How changing blades pitch could lead to yawing... I mean it's changing the thrust the rotor produces but it's still pointed downwards. So no force actually moving one engine to front and second to back...

It's may be little bit OT but it got me thinking... And that's may end badly xD