BIS, get this tragedy with AI drivers in wheeled vehicles solved

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Nothing improved since OFP, AI + wheeled vehicle = nightmare.

BIS, is it THAT difficult to calculate a path based on the capabilities of an wheeled vehicle (main limitation is the turn radius).

And as soon as there are more then one vehicle is involved they hindering each other.

I remember the advertisments "new cm precision for AI movement".....but what does it help?

I see absolutely no improvement in ArmA 2.

[DaveP 66]

I suppose it has issues when it's trying to weigh up driving on roads versus going offroad, either that or it just doesn't think fast enough to avoid going off road/hitting stuff

[whisper 0]

I remember the advertisments "new cm precision for AI movement".....but what does it help?

I see absolutely no improvement in ArmA 2.

oO Could we please stop with these dramatic conclusions? "OMG, AI don't drive better, ArmA2 is just ArmA, nothing more!!" errr, what?

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Thank you whisper for your value add to this topic.

You think it is not dramatic that if you send a large convoy across the island that only half of it arrives very late and even half damaged?

That when I give my AI driver the order for an quick escape from a village he starting a 5 minutes forward/backward mess ?

What you want to tell me? That the current (old) solution is acceptable in 2009?

And I say ArmA II = OFP 1 in this aspect! 8 years later!

Cmon!

Edited June 5, 2009 by S!fkaIaC

[S!fkaIaC 10]

weigh up driving on roads versus going offroad

Well, in "careless" they should for sure stick to the road, but they can't.

[welcome to hell 23]

I think AI driving improved a bit over ArmA, however i dont see any improvement in flying. Actualy i think ArmA AI is better at TAke off, taxi, and chopper/plane landings.

ArmA 2 Ai can drive on roads but its pathfinding and obsticle detection is still pretty bad.

I hope it will improve with patches, than warfare would be much better!

[metalcraze 290]

And I say ArmA II = OFP 1 in this aspect! 8 years later!

Cmon!

Sorry but no. In a patched OFP AI drivers do stick to the road and most importantly they don't bump in another people killing them which is very annoying in ArmA2.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Ok,

ArmA II =< OFP 1 /// for AI driven wheeled vehicles

right? ;)

[zenith777 0]

I think AI driving improved a bit over ArmA, however i dont see any improvement in flying. Actualy i think ArmA AI is better at TAke off, taxi, and chopper/plane landings.

ArmA 2 Ai can drive on roads but its pathfinding and obsticle detection is still pretty bad.

I hope it will improve with patches, than warfare would be much better!

Actually now AI with chopper lands excatly where it is ordered to.

And I sended 5 trucks to drive 2km and only one reached the destination...

AI driver couldn't even see a lake and the truck drowned.

In ArmA all the trucks made it to the destination when I tested the same in ArmA.

[suma 8]

Nothing improved since OFP, AI + wheeled vehicle = nightmare.

BIS, is it THAT difficult to calculate a path based on the capabilities of an wheeled vehicle (main limitation is the turn radius).

I see absolutely no improvement in ArmA 2.

Yes, it is difficult. Still, we hope recently released 1.01 final (build 57751) should bring significant improvements in this area. Can you please retest with this build and let us know the results?

[amadieus 0]

Im with TC on this, The Ai pathfinding with wheeled vehicles was for me the biggest problem with Warfare, i hope Bohemia fixes this soon.

[welcome to hell 23]

Well its nice to see that Dev's actually look into suggestions and post on their forums.

That level of involvement is rarely seen with other game studios, good job BIS!

[Deadfast 43]

BIS, is it THAT difficult to calculate a path based on the capabilities of an wheeled vehicle (main limitation is the turn radius).

Surprisingly I think it is.

Do you really think they'd leave it like this if there was a better option that would require reasonable amount of work.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Even a cheat like giving AI slightly better turn radiuses would help improve on this, especially on the bigger wheeled vehicles.

[dreday 1]

I agree, it needs to be improved. There is not much else to say. Again, props to BIS for looking at it. I will test it out in the final DE patch when I get home.

On a related subject, another thing that needs to be fixed is the AI drivers' response to your commands when you are the vehicle commander. It is absolutely impossible to control the vehicles due to the "drunken drivers" that would go out of their way to disobey your orders. If the proper driver AI can not be modeled (and apperently it can not) then drivers should simply objey their commander's orders to a letter (i.e. keep turning left as long as I tell them to turn left). This bug/feature makes vehicle combat completely unbearable for me... well that and the lack of any fire control system, but that's a different story...

Hopefully BIS would find an opportunity to look at the "drunken driver" issue as well. That fix has been long overdue.

Peace,

DreDay

[11aTony 0]

I dunno. If you send tracked vehicles across sahrani they are much worse then trucks. Not only that they dont go on road, they flip over or get stuck in trees. In A2 I have already seen some fliped over T90s. Last day I have sent 2 hmmwvs in column and they both arived nicely with a lot of obsticles on way. But usually if there is someone in halt on road before waypoint then they often go offroad and dont come back. Sometime they do. I would like to know, why isnt there just "go on road" mode and "go however you like" mode for AI drivers. However, I connot agree that pilots or drivers are equal or even worse then OFP or A1. They are better for sure.

[Raptor 10]

Yes, it is difficult. Still, we hope recently released 1.01 final (build 57751) should bring significant improvements in this area. Can you please retest with this build and let us know the results?

Yes I tested three situations and the KI react alittle bit better. (just drive forward among three tons, to turn off, to turn off with vehicles coming and to drive through a big town)

But it become criticly if there is a second or more objects on or near the street and the setting is more complex.

If your KI is turning off and a second vehicle is also driving on the street and is still coming to you, the Ki get the way through the bushes instead to drive to the cross and wait or simply turn off right.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Raptor

[DaveP 66]

Yes, it is difficult. Still, we hope recently released 1.01 final (build 57751) should bring significant improvements in this area. Can you please retest with this build and let us know the results?

Having started with 1.01, I've found issues where sometimes a truck/tank will basically stop in its tracks if its part of a group which includes infantry, and just stay there while everyone else soldiers on

[sobrek 0]

To me it seems, AI driving is gone worse than ever with ArmA 2.

Tell the driver to go forward, he will do, hitting every obstacle in the way. Staying on the road? Never.

Commanding AI drivers as gunner or commander is almost impossible.

And most drivers seats are lacking the manual fire option now, thats what annoys me most.

So nice vehicles, so hard to use :<

[schaefsky 0]

To me wheeled AI is cutting corners too much.

Also they sometimes try to stick too far right of the road, sometimes they are just on spot. It almost seems they drive too far right when there are obstacles along the roadsides, but that might be coincidence. They get too much confused by obstacles which are near, but not on their path.

Their "coorectional maneuvers" (e.g. when they hit something and have to back up and turn a bit to get around) seem too small, so in the example they don't back up enough and don't turn the wheel enough.

Commanding driver AI as commander or gunner suffers from the command lag ("Right. Forward.") way too much to be usable.

Tested with 1.01 final.

[Operation Currywurst 10]

Ok, got the latest patch installed. I just played the second last scenario where I was in control of two T90s. I watched to allied T72 drive into a lake and get destroyed. Doesnt seem to have improved too much with the patch.

Curry

[POTS 0]

No offense it ohara, but it will be difficult giving my money to BIS if vehicle/convoy ai is really this bad. And no, it is not that difficult to fix this. I'd have to say that this is something I cannot rationalize as being difficult to fix. What is hard about telling AI to watch vehicle spacing, width of road, and to stay within those parameters? Would it really be that difficult to just add a new waypoint or logic for that? It would make people so happy to have some reliable AI for a change. Now that BIS has implemented more realistic AI, its time for them to make it more reliable as well. Basic physics calculations could make sure that AI do not over accelerate off the road, which seems to be the most common problem.

[dreday 1]

Commanding driver AI as commander or gunner suffers from the command lag ("Right. Forward.") way too much to be usable.

Command lag is the least of the problems here. The real problem is that "drunken drivers" have a mind of their own and they decide how far right or left to go, while using your commands just a general guideline.

This would have worked ok... if the drivers' AI was any good. Unfortunately, we all know that this is very far from being the case. That is why I am proposing that the driver AI should follow your instructions precisely (i.e. keep turning as long as they are told to turn; not less and not more). I can't imagine that this would be that difficult to fix, while it would do wonders for the vehicle controllability and the overall immersion factor.

Peace,

DreDay

Edited June 5, 2009 by DreDay

[mr reality 0]

In OFP i could give an AI driven truck about 5 waypoints, and it would drive happily from one side of the map to the other. In ArmA 1 on a similar route (different map though) would take 3 to 4 times the amount of waypoints. VBS1 even had these problems. Now wether it's an AI problem or a map problem i'm not sure.

It's a killer if your trying to make a mission that involves an AI driver getting to a certain location. I've lost count of the amount of times and actual hours i've wasted, actually watching to see if the truck gets to its destination.

I suppose this is one of the reasons you see a lot of troop movements done in helicopters, as there a lot easier to predict.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Mr Reality

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Nothing improved since OFP, AI + wheeled vehicle = nightmare.

BIS, is it THAT difficult to calculate a path based on the capabilities of an wheeled vehicle (main limitation is the turn radius).

And as soon as there are more then one vehicle is involved they hindering each other.

I remember the advertisments "new cm precision for AI movement".....but what does it help?

I see absolutely no improvement in ArmA 2.

Sorry but I have to agree.

Its been 8 years, and people say that the AI path finding havent improved much. But to answer the developer question earlier this thread, the AI havent improved much in the latest patch, but I sure hope you will keep improving it. Its important. I would not have problems with buying this game if I knew this would be improved, but why should I trust BIS to fix these path issues in a patch, when nothing has happened in 8 years and 2 games later?

Edited June 5, 2009 by ^Th0mas^