st!gar 3 Posted June 7, 2009 About the AI issues regarding sppressive fire, have any of you tried using the Suppressive Fire -module in the Editor? If so, what happens then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Just a video that shows how ARMA2 AI behaves when sniped from long distance (750m.). I bet the first test shown in the video will make you concerned ... SIDENOTE: the gunner you see returning fire at the end of test 1/3 me got the sniper (me) wounded. He needed a few volleys, but he did. So he wounded a man wearing ghillie suit and prone into grass, from a distance over 750m, while standing up and firing on auto with a machinegun ... Now you may undertand me when i say that AI firing precision both for suppressive and aimed shots is just a bit too much. Consider that in this test "precisionEnemy" was set to 0.8, while default is 1.0 ;) Edited June 7, 2009 by fabrizioT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 7, 2009 Two more vids: single shot, lethal, taken with M107, distance 1000m. At least in these cases AI has some more problems in spotting the sniper and / or returning fire. But hey, now i am 1Km away! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trini scourge 1 Posted June 7, 2009 The AI does surpress the player. It is very simple to test. Set up a: onmapsingleclick "player setpos _pos" trigger, shoot at the AI then teleport away. They will surpress the area for a reasonable amount of time while simultaneously trying to flank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted June 7, 2009 Hi all Scientific Method We should all be using scientific method to support our arguments. At the very least a copy of the editable mission should be provided. So use this as a Template ------------------------------------------------------ For the attention of: Who needs to take notice, who is the intended audience Name of the Experiment Instructions to reproduce the "..." Required Resources: A list of what is needed to repeat the experiment. At the very least a link to the experimental mission as a download Summary A description of what to expect Method Describe how to do the experiment Observations What you have observed to happen Results The effects of the experiment Further: Any additional thoughts or advice Cause Your hypothesis of what is causing the effect Solutions Suggestions on how to solve it if it is a problem Known Workarounds Problems Problems with each workaround Additional Material Materials that provide additional support for the results ----------------------------------------------------------------- You do not need to include each field and you can add you own; it is guidline not a bible. Kind regards walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted June 7, 2009 Just a video that shows how ARMA2 AI behaves when sniped from long distance (750m.). Thats just terminator alike :D . It was like that in the original flashpoint too, PK'ers were like full automatic snipers, they were the most dangerous units in the a.i. squad and obviously priority targets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 7, 2009 [Posted elsewhere] just a little vid done by me showing an AI group proceeding through the natural scenery while in combat mode. It's more about environment than about AI, but you will at least see how and where units are taking cover: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted June 7, 2009 [Posted elsewhere] just a little vid done by me showing an AI group proceeding through the natural scenery while in combat mode. It's more about environment than about AI, but you will at least see how and where units are taking cover: This is like the nicest Arma II movie i've seen so far, atleast there are no robotic voices, strange a.i. or any weirdness to it and its really simple. Nice work :) . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Callisto 10 Posted June 7, 2009 fabrizioT: You commented on your youtube video that you changed your AI's accuracy, could you tell me how to do that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
st!gar 3 Posted June 8, 2009 I was contemplating making a whole new thread about this, but figured it'd make more sense to post my question here. We've seen lots of videos about the AI maneuvering and fighting in villages, cities and such, which is cool, but as far as AI-reports are concerned, it seems comments regarding AI behaviour anywhere else is a little lacking, if you know what I mean... My point is; the AI being good at maneuvering through urban areas is all fine and dandy, but seeing as we have a detailed 225 km2 -map with hills, a coastline and 100km2 of forests, I can't imagine spending all my time running around in people's gardens, to put it that way. So at this point I'm actually the most interested in learning how the AI reacts in natural terrain in general. On this forum, I've heard people say, for example, that when the AI fights in forests, it gets confused pretty easily, what with all the trees and availiable places of cover. I've even heard that the AI won't even use the lean-function when hiding behind a tree. And sure enough, in fabrizioT's video that's practically five minutes of AIs running around in woodland terrain, I've never once seen a soldier moving himself behind a tree trunk and actually lean out from it. Just positioning themselves somewhere behind-and-next to it and laying down or crouching, really... :raisebrow: And what exactly does the AI do if it's attacked in relatively open terrain with more scarce vegetation? --- In short; with all the exposure on the AI's urban behaviour, I'm just a little worried that the AI's combat abilities in other terrain has been given less of a priority than urban AI... :confused: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richardg 10 Posted June 8, 2009 Tree trunk isnt cover anyway. A battle rifle goes through tree trunks like butter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frederf 0 Posted June 8, 2009 I respectfully disagree, a 30cm tree trunk is gunna be plenty strong against rounds up to and including 30mm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarlGustaffa 4 Posted June 8, 2009 I don't care what you call it. I'm always gonna feel safer behind a truck than in front of it any day :D Trees are about the only kind of cover you'll find in a forest (at least in Arma) anyway, so even if they had no stopping power, I would prefer if they did. @St!gar: They probably focused on MOUT since that has always been our biggest complaints. I have no complaints against AI in Arma1 woods even. They are very good in flanking (at least with some help), and they are very hard to spot. I'm more concerned about their disability to use dynamic elements as cover, like editor placed stuff, vehicles etc. I've also heard they don't use smoke (and probably flares). Would be a great idea for one of them magic logic thingies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lapa 1 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) I respectfully disagree, a 30cm tree trunk is gunna be plenty strong against rounds up to and including 30mm. You may disagree, but on what do you base your opinion? A simple assault rifle can easily penetrate trees up to and over 30 cm (depending on the age and species of the tree). Penetration test for RK-92 (basically a slightly improved AK variant) starts at 9:14 Translation: Birch 20 cm Brick wall 13 cm Leca wall 29 cm Steel 8 mm Sandbag 23 cm (doesn't penetrate) I have personally shot through a 20+ cm tree trunk with an RK 95. Edit: Of course, a 5.56x45mm NATO round might not do the trick ;P Edited June 8, 2009 by lapa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLeek 10 Posted June 8, 2009 but 7.62*51mm NATO will do. anyway, is it still lethal after 20cm of wood? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sheps 0 Posted June 8, 2009 The AI still cant drive and they crash into tree's more than ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
st!gar 3 Posted June 8, 2009 They are very good in flanking (at least with some help), and they are very hard to spot. ...What kind of help? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
inkle 0 Posted June 8, 2009 Just a video that shows how ARMA2 AI behaves when sniped from long distance (750m.).I bet the first test shown in the video will make you concerned ... SIDENOTE: the gunner you see returning fire at the end of test 1/3 me got the sniper (me) wounded. He needed a few volleys, but he did. So he wounded a man wearing ghillie suit and prone into grass, from a distance over 750m, while standing up and firing on auto with a machinegun ... Now you may undertand me when i say that AI firing precision both for suppressive and aimed shots is just a bit too much. Consider that in this test "precisionEnemy" was set to 0.8, while default is 1.0 ;) fabrizioT, which file do i set this "precisionEnemy" in?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) You commented on your youtube video that you changed your AI's accuracy, could you tell me how to do that? fabrizioT, which file do i set this "precisionEnemy" in?? Look into your "XXXX.armaProfile" file (XXXX is yuour ARMA2 profile name). If you own Vista (and if i remember correctly) you will find it in: C:/users/<your windows account>/documents/ARMA2 Remember: make your own files backup before modifying anything there. Edited June 8, 2009 by fabrizioT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
inkle 0 Posted June 8, 2009 Look into your "XXXX.armaProfile" file (XXXX is yuour ARMA2 profile name). If you own Vista (and if i remember correctly) you will find it in: Remember: make your own files backup before modifying anything there. Thanks! will try it when i get home. cant wait! :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 8, 2009 I was contemplating making a whole new thread about this, but figured it'd make more sense to post my question here.We've seen lots of videos about the AI maneuvering and fighting in villages, cities and such, which is cool, but as far as AI-reports are concerned, it seems comments regarding AI behaviour anywhere else is a little lacking, if you know what I mean... My point is; the AI being good at maneuvering through urban areas is all fine and dandy, but seeing as we have a detailed 225 km2 -map with hills, a coastline and 100km2 of forests, I can't imagine spending all my time running around in people's gardens, to put it that way. So at this point I'm actually the most interested in learning how the AI reacts in natural terrain in general. On this forum, I've heard people say, for example, that when the AI fights in forests, it gets confused pretty easily, what with all the trees and availiable places of cover. I've even heard that the AI won't even use the lean-function when hiding behind a tree. And sure enough, in fabrizioT's video that's practically five minutes of AIs running around in woodland terrain, I've never once seen a soldier moving himself behind a tree trunk and actually lean out from it. Just positioning themselves somewhere behind-and-next to it and laying down or crouching, really... :raisebrow: And what exactly does the AI do if it's attacked in relatively open terrain with more scarce vegetation? --- In short; with all the exposure on the AI's urban behaviour, I'm just a little worried that the AI's combat abilities in other terrain has been given less of a priority than urban AI... :confused: I can assure you that AI will eventually lean out of trees (at least some tree models), since i've seen that many times. You can't really judge how effectively the AI uses cover from my video, since there is no actual opposition. However i can tell you that normally in a combat session AI is not 100% perfect in taking cover, as you may expect. Sometimes it does it just fine, other times it fails. If cover is scarce or too far then it just behaves like it did in ARMA, it simply lies down and/or run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turin turambar 0 Posted June 8, 2009 I know there is two ai values in the profile file. skillfriendly/enemy and precisionfriendly/enemy. Precision is clear. But what are the changes when you modifiy the skill value? If i lower it to decrease the situational awareness of the AI, is going to also affect their tactical skill? I fear that is the case, both things are controlled by the same value. The ideal would be to keep all the smarts in the AI and modify freely how good is the awareness of the AI. Perhaps a little mod could make it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) My experience is: lower "skillEnemy" and "skillFriendly" values and you will get super dumb AI (bad spotting ability, bad reactions time, short engaging ranges ...) . So my suggestion is to leave them maxed. Then you may tune units skill in the editor if needed. Edited June 8, 2009 by fabrizioT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
^Th0mas^ 10 Posted June 8, 2009 The AI still cant drive and they crash into tree's more than ever. Was the AI driving skills better 8 years ago? Because I cant remember having any big problems with this when OfP was released. Havent played much ArmA II, just read what everyone else saids. :butbut: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fabrizio_t 58 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Was the AI driving skills better 8 years ago? Because I cant remember having any big problems with this when OfP was released. Havent played much ArmA II, just read what everyone else saids. :butbut: Err ... no. I remember the first OFP mission, the one you rode in the truck with other soldiers. That truck seemed to be driven by a drunk man! The major difference now is that AI drives on the right side of the road instead than in the middle. Pathfinding is just about the same. A funny letdown is that now AI nearly overruns all the road signs it encounters :) Edited June 8, 2009 by fabrizioT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
