ARMA 2 Micro AI Thread

[Second 0]

Now, before trolling here gently ;) , would you be kind enough to actually read the thread and see that the reports here seem accurate enough to portrait what AI is indeed doing, that it wasn't doing in ArmA, before claiming such reports are false?

ARGH! I'm not one to say which "report" is accurate and which is not as i dont' own the game!

My goal is to tell people to not take everything seriously. This means both negative and positive remarks

Edited May 29, 2009 by Second

[st!gar 3]

Yes. At least I saw them hide behind bushes once or twice.

But no one has had tried it with trees?

[Raphier 0]

But no one has had tried it with trees?

or vehicles? or corners? ;)

[st!gar 3]

or corners?

They have with corners. In one of the pages in this thread, there is a screenshot showing it.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hello again,

maybe some lucky ARMA2 owners can post some screens (as W0lle already did) or vids showing some cool AI behaviour ?

Hints: Covering ? Peeking around corners ? Laying suppressing fire ? Flanking ? Advancing through fire ? Retreating ? Attacking vehicles ? Dragging wounded ?

Also: new beta patch is containing some Micro AI tweaks, did anybody tried it ? Ok not out yet ... me dumba**

Edited May 29, 2009 by fabrizioT

[chrismvts 10]

The Arma 2 website states this in teh weapons section

"The M-24 sniper weapon system is a 7.62 mm, bolt-action repeating rifle based on the Remington 700 (like the USMC M40). The barrel is designed to be free-floating, further improving its already superior accuracy. It is used with an M3A 10X magnifying scope. The M24 is accurate to about 800 meters but an experienced marksman can hit a target 1200 meters away."

But if the enemy only have a draw distance of about 300 how are you possably ment to shoot a target 1200 meters away?

[DracoN 10]

This is real life info, not ingame.

[sabre4809 0]

But if the enemy only have a draw distance of about 300 how are you possably ment to shoot a target 1200 meters away?

:confused: In ARMA you can see Tanks and most probably infantry aswell from 4000+ KM.

Just checked:

From San Esteban Mountain to Merciallo I can see enemy, The limiting factor will be the range for sure and even if the bullets had no drop youd be limited by the 'Tiny-ness' of the soldier on screen, crosshairs width would be 3 times that of the soldier in perspective.

Edited May 29, 2009 by SAbre4809
Checked

[Steakslim 1]

I expect that the draw distances will be increased in the upcoming patches. Otherwise those fun long range engagements are gonna be kinda difficult.

[chrismvts 10]

Dracon it would be prety pointles putting what the gun can do in real life then boast about the game being a simulater and having amazing bullet balllistics and then not having it in game :D

Sabertooth so you can actually see the enemy in game at over 1000m? From what Ive been reading there only apearing at about 300m. Maybe Im getting the wrong end of the stick.

Edited May 29, 2009 by chrismvts

[froggyluv 2136]

ARGH! I'm not one to say which "report" is accurate and which is not as i dont' own the game!

My goal is to tell people to not take everything seriously. This means both negative and positive remarks

Sorry Second, I know you care about the AI as much or more than I do but can't you see the irony in your post: You've use Bold, Italics, and underscores in an attempt to tell people not to take the game too seriously :D

[sabre4809 0]

Sabertooth so you can actually see the enemy in game at over 1000m? From what Ive been reading there only apearing at about 300m. Maybe Im getting the wrong end of the stick.

I'm talking about ARMA 1, and just doubting 2 would be any different, hell if addons straight out of ARMA work by just chucking them in I doubt there will be a tenth of the "object" draw distance. Maybe they just have object detail really low. Where did you see this?

On a side not how did we start on this in the Micro AI topic, :oops: .

Edited May 29, 2009 by SAbre4809

[Alex72 1]

Object Detail set to low will make things disapear closer to save performance. Thats what its for. People playing at LOW might experience this.

Just an idea though i dont own ARMA2 yet. But it works like that in ArmA1. Raise Obj Detail and see.

Alex

[mr.g-c 6]

Well the AI is really strange in Arma2....

On the one side i saw especially in the campaign that AI peaks around corners (this does not always makes sense btw) and use a bit more cover.

However i experienced more that they simply do nothing. Like written in the other topic, for instance

in the campaigns first mission where you *can* rescue the doctor instead of bombing the whole area, the enemy AI around them did not engage me at all!

..I could walk as close as 2meters in front of them and they just tunred around and walked around me.

Then after i killed 3 of em, 3 others suddenly dropped their guns and surrendered.

Generally when you set their skill to maximum both in the editor and the difficulty settings, they tend to flank more and Machinegunners "seems" to suppress you... im not sure yet - whenever i try it it *could* also be that they simply see me and shooting at the bit i expose myself.

Then again the AI Cheats very much. Its the same oddity like in Arma1, where they detect others through buildings and walls and whatnot.

Also very very often, depending on their current "mode", they simply walk through walls and buildings (we had this crap already had in Arma1 :rolleyes:).

So yes unfortunately i can confirm every AI crticism by the german Press so far! I was blue-eyed to believe this will be fixed for retail, after we heard the same stuff from press-articles around the world as they tested this famous "February build" and all Devs tried to calm us down :rolleyes::o:(

[Taconic 0]

But if the enemy only have a draw distance of about 300 how are you possably ment to shoot a target 1200 meters away?

I really have no idea where you're getting this from.

In both OFP and Arma, units are visible out to the edge of the environmental draw distance. I've had no problem spotting things out to 2000m. I highly doubt Arma2 has reduced the draw distance to 300m, especially when most action happens at ~200m.

[Yoma 0]

The nice thing is that it'll surely get better and better with patches.

I consider ofp/arma/arma2 as something that's in constant motion, not a static "now it's done" thing as other games. That may be wrong for some, but makes perfect sence to me.

However, i haven't had the chance to see it yet, and you have ;) Lucky you!

Come on Taxipost, get here!

[dreday 1]

The nice thing is that it'll surely get better and better with patches.

Quite frankly, I hear a lot of people say that and I am really curious where this attitude comes from... As a man of logic who is familiar with statistical forecasting, I just don't see how you can say that AI will all of the sudden get so much better when it has effectively been ignored by the developers for the past 8 years and multiple re-incarnations of this game. That is, unless you are relying on the law of averages ;)

Peace,

DreDay

[Taconic 0]

All the people that are "upset" seem to be forgetting BIS' history.

Their first releases are generally extremely buggy, but it's more forgivable in their case because they're a relatively small developer (with big ambitions) without backing from large publishers. OFP 1.0 was a bit of a mess (but a fun mess) and Arma wasn't much better. I'm sure that Arma2 will have a lot of problems at launch.

But people really can't forget how supportive BIS is of their software. They have a history of quickly releasing patches to deal with any major issues that crop up and supporting their products for years with further patching to address smaller things. They even release free content. I think that maybe the only developer with a better track record than BIS in this regard might be Maddox Games (the developers of Il-2.)

So yeah, if things aren't quite right in the pre-gold German release, I'd say that's to be expected and suggest that people calm down. The AI has clearly been worked on and I can almost guarantee that BIS has people on it 24/7 to get it right for the real release next month. We wouldn't be here if we didn't enjoy the series, and history shows that BIS gets things sorted out and supports the community.

Now if in six months some of the promised features still don't work properly, then discontent may be warranted. But I'm inclined to give BIS the benefit of the doubt given their track record.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Shame Matt's AI video went private, I think it really did the AI justice to the point where I can't understand how people can compare it to A1 AI.

On the other hand, the issue with the AI in the campaign/missions, I reckon is just a bad case of messed up scripting interfering with it, I wouldn't be surprised of disableAI wasn't reversed after some cutscenes ended or whatever.

[dreday 1]

Now if in six months some of the promised features still don't work properly, then discontent may be warranted. But I'm inclined to give BIS the benefit of the doubt given their track record.

Taconic, please re-read my post above. The issue is not the updates/support from BIS, which I agree have been excellent. The issue is their lack of emphasis on developing a strong AI. It's a matter of priorities; and based on what I have read about ARMA 2 so far, it still seems to be the case. They are the developers and they decide on what to focus on in their design/development cycle - fair enough; but I see no reason to hold a naive believe that this would somehow be fixed by a patch.

Peace,

DreDay

Edited May 29, 2009 by DreDay

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

After messing around in the editor, having some fights in the editor, i found the AI to be very random.

They seem to use covers alot and wait around corners before continuing, they hide behind fences and anything that could block the view.

They act realistically, i haven't been killed once by a superhero lynx eye AI, and haven't died once by a single shot.

When they spot me at a certain distance, they fire around me, i think it's really good as sometimes i just died and others i could get away with it by running to the nearest cover.

I noticed they lost sight of you if your standing on the grass firing at them, once you go prone they still fire at you, but if you sneak away or something by still being prone, they stop firing.

My only dislikes about this AI is how they control vehicles

Sometimes pilot land the MV-22 to disembark all the troop inside, but sometimes it just flies around the drop spot.

And as for driving cars and tanks/APC's it's still the same as in Armed Assault 1, they crash into building and tree's, even on straight road they go out of the road so they reverse back on the road go left right and stuff..

Hell, i even placed a BRDM 2000meters away, it was supposed to come help out their troops but it came 2 times on 5 tries..

That's my only disappointment regarding the AI, otherwise when it's not driving/piloting i think it's fine!

I only had the "AI not firing at me even tho I'm standing next to them" bug happen once, but it will probably be fixed in no-time.

[Taconic 0]

Taconic, please re-read my post above. The issue is not the updates/support from BIS, which I agree have been excelent.

My post actually wasn't directed at you. You posted as I was typing. :p

The issue is their lack of lack of emphasis on developing a strong AI. It's a mater of priorities; and based on what I have read about ARMA 2 so far, it still seems to be the case. They are the developers and they decide on what to focus on in their design/develpmnet cyle - fair enough; but I see no reason to hold a naive belive that this would somehow be fixed by a patch.

I can agree that AI didn't seem to be much of a priority for them in the past, but it seems to have been a major priority for them this time around.

The fact people are reporting things that could never happen in OFP or Arma (suppressing fire, the AI taking cover, the AI moving (somewhat) intelligently through urban terrain, etc.) and the inclusion of the new game logics suggest that BIS has in fact devoted some real effort to dealing with the old AI issues. I don't think it's at all naive to think that future patches will address some of the problems present in the German release.

At least as far as the infantry is concerned. I don't recall BIS saying anything about improving vehicle AI. I'd like to hope that is coming, but I'm glad that they've prioritized infantry AI over it.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Thanks mr.g-c for your polite message.

Sad to hear thai AI still can walk through things (that was another notorious ARMA issue).

I really hope the issue with "passive" AI you noticed in the campaign is script related and that will be smewhat fixed ASAP.

[arigram 0]

Consider that all major and high profile games have needed, often badly, a patch right after release and sometimes it is issued even before then. Consider that even then and after more than one patch, popular games from well established developers and publishing houses, often don't fix important and glaring bugs that the gamers much protest against.

Also, taking in account the ambition, manpower, track record of support and tough community that BI has, I find it that is quite unfair to single the company out, like they are a special case and apply the stigma of the developers who will always release unfinished and unplayable games.

But, on the other hand, I understand the disappointment some may feel and quite right, the release of an unpolished product is never excusable. Usually that happens because of the pressure of a publisher and it is well known, that the German one is at fault here and one can only blame BI for letting them repeat that charade.

In any case, I will not pass judgment until I am actually playing the finished, bought and patched game. I have enough faith to BI that they will correct any mistakes, fill any shortcomings and enhance it further. Parts of the game, especially the AI is very modular and workable and can and will be refined, such as the other elements that need it. I also trust BI that they have been quite passionated about Arma 2 and will do everything in their power for their project to succeed.

[dreday 1]

My post actually wasn't directed at you. You posted as I was typing. :p

Oh I didn't think that it was directed at me. I just thought that you might find it interesting since it was addressing pretty much the same point that you were speaking to.

I can agree that AI didn't seem to be much of a priority for them in the past, but it seems to have been a major priority for them this time around.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. This is one of the few cases that I would very much like to be proven wrong on! There are very conflicting reports coming out about the AI. I find the one from STS_SolidSnake to be very encouraging, however there are plenty of others that are equaly discouraging.

I have no doubt that "some" of the problems would be addressed. The "inactive AI" is obviously a bug and it would certainly be fixed. Is it realistic to expect significant improvements to the AI - in my opinion NO... but like I said, I would love to be proven wrong on this!

Peace,

DreDay

Edited May 29, 2009 by DreDay