ARMA 2 Micro AI Thread

[fabrizio_t 58]

I've read many comments here and there and i still can't figure how ARMA2 AI compares to ARMA AI.

Were "micro AI", "centimeter" precision movements, suppression fire simply overhyped marketing claims or there is something really better in ARMA2 in terms of AI behviour?

What about usage of cover ?

What about AI groups communication and coordination ?

What about urban combat behaviour ?

Is friendly AI still useless i supporting the player ?

Can AI finally drive vehicles reliably ?

Please debate here.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Placebo
Changed title ...

[W0lle 1050]

Definitely worth it, they might not be as good as many people thought they are as they produced the usual hype and urban legends but yes the ArmA2 AI is definitely better than the current ArmA one.

And no I don't say that because I have to. :)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Thanks W0lle,

can you please highlight the areas in which ARMA2 AI shines (compared to ARMA) to your opinion ?

Any examples are welcome.

Edited May 28, 2009 by fabrizioT

[Binary 0]

Absolutely true.

Example:

I put 4, 5-man Russian squads to patrol a small village with Urban Patrol Script (It works beautifully for ArmA II btw) and put myself in a large 12-man USMC group in the editor and gave them a "Search and Destroy" waypoint in the middle of the village. We started on a hill about 500 meters from the village. Just seing the way they moved towards the village, the engagements, the reactions and especially the movement in between houses, fences, walls and so on..

I'm actually impressed.. I didn't think that I'd be, but I am really impressed..

Micro AI actually... Works..

[W0lle 1050]

Actively seeking cover behind buildings and objects for sure. While converting some old missions I had it several times that my AI mates are running at one corner of a building, checking the area and move to the other side of the building checking there.

One time I had an enemy guy running in front of me, then I get distracted and lost contact with him. I wasn't able to find him again and a bit later I found him standing upright behind a tree, the only thing visible was the barrel from his AK.

AI driving in vehicles seems still to be a weak spot, a convoy of 4 vehicles does anything but driving down a road.

Every here and then they crash their choppers in trees and tall buildings.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Thanks, finally some useful information!

Just some more specific questions:

1) ARMA AI could not walk into some spots (eg. some city squares) in Sahrani. Is that fixed in ARMA2 ?

2) A problem that plagued my experience with ARMA was that enemy AI was able to find and pinpoint me through walls and bushes. Sometimes they managed to shoot through building edges. Is that fixed ?

3) ARMA AI had sometimes problem with LOS, especially in cities: AI did not react till close to threats. Is that fixed ?

4) ARMA AI had also problems in targeting/engaging VERY CLOSE threats (CQB). Is that fixed ?

5) ARMA AI had problems in spotting enemies from distance > 300-400m (it was annoying: as i leader i usually had to "reveal" enemies to AI in order to get them detected). Is that fixed ?

Edited May 28, 2009 by fabrizioT

[froggyluv 2136]

Good thread and good questions fabrizioT. I'm also really curious if there are AI 'dead zones' like the terraces of Paraiso or not?

Sounds like quite a mixed bag of reactions which in my book is actually a win. There will always be moments in any game, especially of this scale when the AI will do something incredibly stupid but as long as that is balanced by an AI that can also surprise and challenge you without being aimbots, then I'm pretty happy.

[sgt gul 0]

i hope they fixed the annoying thing, that AI can hit you in pitch dark without nightvision

[cartier90 0]

I was pleased with OFPR Super AI tbh...ok , not the best in cities, but it was ok. Hopefully ARMA2 will be a doubly big leap for me, OFPR is the latest BIS game I've played...

[sic-disaster 311]

The idea of people playing this game before i am is murdering enough already, reading W0lle's post only makes it that much harder to wait...

I really wish a demo is coming out soon so i can have more hands-on time, because when the game hits the streets here in Holland i've only got a couple of days left to play before i have to leave home for 8 weeks :\

The better ArmA2 is, the harder my departure will be ;D

[froggyluv 2136]

The idea of people playing this game before i am is murdering enough already, reading W0lle's post only makes it that much harder to wait...

I really wish a demo is coming out soon so i can have more hands-on time, because when the game hits the streets here in Holland i've only got a couple of days left to play before i have to leave home for 8 weeks :\

The better ArmA2 is, the harder my departure will be ;D

It's exactly that sort of bittersweet tension that makes life worth living eh.. ?

But I'm with you on the demo...

[sgt gul 0]

well they said a demo will appear this week or next week, i to live in netherlands. Its still a mystery here

they should have released demo with the game, but who knows. officially its the 29th release date. maybe well get demo tomorrow or even weekend

[W0lle 1050]

Thanks, finally some useful information!

Just some more specific questions:

1) ARMA AI could not walk into some spots (eg. some city squares) in Sahrani. Is that fixed in ARMA2 ?

2) A problem that plagued my experience with ARMA was that enemy AI was able to find and pinpoint me through walls and bushes. Sometimes they managed to shoot through building edges. Is that fixed ?

3) ARMA AI had sometimes problem with LOS, especially in cities: AI did not react till close to threats. Is that fixed ?

4) ARMA AI had also problems in targeting/engaging VERY CLOSE threats (CQB). Is that fixed ?

5) ARMA AI had problems in spotting enemies from distance > 300-400m (it was annoying: as i leader i usually had to "reveal" enemies to AI in order to get them detected). Is that fixed ?

1. Hard to tell as there is no Sahrani available. :)

2. I never noticed AI shooting through building edges but hiding behind bushes should work pretty well. Did that more than once as I'm a huge coward. :D

3. There is one SP mission which plays in a huge city, AI had no problems there. Infact it was pretty cool to see how they advance, move to cover, looking around corners and continue to next waypoint.

At one point in that mission the whole group of 8 or 10 men moved down a road without any weird behaviour as we know it from ArmA, they just were running down that road.

4. Haven't checked that yet

5. You don't have to "babysit" the AI as you had in ArmA. They detect and engage enemies on their own. Spotting the enemy is better too but I'm not sure about distances > 400m

Overall said, the AI is definitely better than in ArmA. The movement is better, they can go through a gate instead walking around it. But it's also no completely new AI, they still act stupid sometimes (especially in vehicles). I'm pretty sure with some more patches it gets even better.

[lwlooz 0]

5. You don't have to "babysit" the AI as you had in ArmA. They detect and engage enemies on their own. Spotting the enemy is better too but I'm not sure about distances > 400m

I don't like the sound of that :(.

I am reading reviews and posts on forums that claim the AI is "uncontrollable" as well. I also don't see any sign of ability to give your AI orders for area fire,suppression in the new context sensitive/direct menu.

I highly suspect they are not going to move in formation when assigned to colorteams again as well.

And the less said about the command bar , the better.

But since I really don't play this game series as a shooter but more as a 3D RealTime Soldier-Perspective version of something like Combat Mission:Shock Force,I would really like to know if you have full control over what your squad does. This wasn't the case in ArmA and hence I wasn't having much fun.

If this is the same in Arma2 I am probably still going to buy it for editing reason,but not now.

So can anyone shed any insight how the AI control is in this release?

Thanks in advance

Edited May 28, 2009 by lwlooz

[Alex72 1]

Dont like the sound of what? Everything in that quote is GOOD... He is not "sure" about the longer range. Wich should mean he hasnt tested it enough. If he was sure they dont see you or engage or whatever i think he would have said exactlly that?

Maybe im wrong. But if he means "not sure" as in "its not so good" then its the simplest thing to fix with an addon.

And your assuming and suspect an aweful lot. ;)

Just saying.

[jamie_c 0]

Can anyone confirm that A2 AI are using the second core on multi-core systems? I'm sure I read that somewhere. To me that's a little more exciting than them getting a bit confused right now, I'm sure BIS will fix the AI over time and improve them.

Jamie.

[ziiip 1]

From all the new info, my conclusion is that the AI works wonderfully when a nasty bug isnt interfering. :D

[Binary 0]

AI reacts great >3-400 meters.

Firefights in those distance are awesome.

[sabre4809 0]

I would really like to know if you have full control over what your squad does. This wasn't the case in ArmA and hence I wasn't having much fun.

Friendly AI in ARMA although a handful if you did things right they worked fine, don't confuse:

short comings of your ability to control, non living!, essentially brainless!, AI, that can just, move, search, see, shoot, hear, ...

with:

Poor AI design.

So if you're expecting to be able to give them orders like you would real people, get your shoes on and run a mile cause it WON'T be like that.

[st!gar 3]

This is an excellent thread. Good stuff. :)

Questions, though:

I put 4, 5-man Russian squads to patrol a small village with Urban Patrol Script (It works beautifully for ArmA II btw)

Is the Urban Patrol-script a user-made mod, or something of the sort? I'd rather prefer it if you could tell me how the vanilla AI performs without mods... :)

Also, two questions:

1) Urban mvement is all fine and dandy, but how do they react to trees and other kinds of protective terrain? Are they able to take cover behind trees just as well as with buildings?

2) Does the AI know how to lean out from cover?

Thanks in advance. It's good to have people willing to help others out like this.

[jamie_c 0]

Valid point mate, they'll interpret your orders to the best of their ability, but even then I don't think they'll be high speed low drag. I guess a lot of us are about to find out though, we might see an explosion of youtube videos thanks to FRAPS and eager gamers.

Anyone predicting which way this one will fall? Happy gamers or sad?

Jamie.

[Praelium 0]

Does anyone remember the first video we saw of the AI, (and one of the first Arma II videos for that matter)? It showed the AI progressing down the street, actively taking cover as they moved.

Is the AI still like that?

[lwlooz 0]

I am sorry,

I don't know where all you people come from , but having played OFP 2001 onwards , being in the MP scripting and mission making business since 2003 and participating in keeping a gaming community alive that solely focuses on missions that involve people leading AI , I would prefer not to be treated with that sort of disrespect.

So unless you really think you know more about this game series and engine than I do , please refrain from ridiculing me.

Thanks a lot.

[jamie_c 0]

Keep it civil people... I'm more interested in hearing about A2 this morning than how big your appendages are. I've been here a while too, not under this name and before you judge, post count isn't everything.

I hope what wolle observed in A2 is the standard, I really would like to see the AI use their surroundings to their advantage, while it may make life hard for the average player, it is more a step in the right direction for those of us, to borrow words from Maruk, who were the first passengers landing on Everon all those years ago.

Jamie.

[W0lle 1050]

I made some screenshots while playing my own missions. Except the first they are all made it in a huge city. Be aware that the screens are pretty crappy, like said I made them while playing.

They react very well, only every here and then you see them standing upright in the middle of the road. If time allows they seek cover where possible.

They also split into smaller teams when start searching the area for enemies, going into backyards searching for them and back out of it into formation again. They provide covering fire while others are moving - just you need to keep one thing in mind: the AI never can be as good as a human player.

Yes, I couldn't resist and tried that language patch myself... :p