Online Activation: What're your thoughts?

[Xanthus 0]

ArmA 2 is the only game that I'm actually looking forward to at the moment, but I'm not going to buy it if BI desides to use DRM a la Spore.

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

I voted: no online activation.

in my opinion BIS' current sytem is the best: CD key method while the game is new and a developer-made no-CD patch after a year or so. This is reasonably user-friendly and fair.

I stongly believe that many people who currently don't use pirated software may change their mind as an act of self-defense against Big Brother.

[BAD BEN 0]

i was really annoyed with ETW becasue when i wanted to install it i had to install steam and it tried to download it which would have taken hoursto install. i dont like secuROM either. i got spore in september and since then i have had to install it twice so i have one install left.

[11aTony 0]

I have no problem with online activation but I have a problem if I need to have my DVD in to be able to play the game. If this will be the case, I can only hope for proper NoDVD crack soon after release. Personaly, I think that if you dont have original, you cant play multiplayer, is good enough.

[leckig 0]

i hope it will be sold via STEAM. and maybe they will run one of their weekend 50% off. that would be great!

[mr.g-c 6]

I have no problem with online activation but I have a problem if I need to have my DVD in to be able to play the game. If this will be the case, I can only hope for proper NoDVD crack soon after release. Personaly, I think that if you dont have original, you cant play multiplayer, is good enough.

Well i honestly think that that is the publishers decision (at least i think i read it some time ago).

Generally there is no point in forcing you to use your CD for play, but Publishers may require it as it makes it a little bit harder for the cracking-teams and all the illegal user to start it every time.

Its not so good as my DvD-drive tends to scratch the DVDs everytime (and basically every DvD or CD Drive i ever had did it somehow) and since with a copy protection you are not able to make a backup of your own DvD its kind of bad somehow.

After all with a certain patch we will get that removed like it was with OFP1 and Arma1.

[Placebo 29]

Advocating and admitting to piracy contravenes forum rules and results in a permanent ban.

[lapa 1]

Online everything sucks. As a friend of mine experienced when he installed and activated HL2 and went to his cabin with no internet. Problems caused a need to reinstall, but hey, now he couldn't play his legally obtained game while the rest of the pirate world was testing it with no hazzles whatsoever.

You can play HL2 in offline mode. EDIT: Once you've activated and verified your game.

[LJF 0]

So far there is no news on whether or not there will be online activation for ArmA II?

Edit: Sry for not posting source originally - the ArmA2 interview.

Advocating and admitting to piracy contravenes forum rules and results in a permanent ban.

Yeah, they shouldn't have put it quite like that, it's not "I pirate games", it's "well ... I know this friend of mine you see ... and he says ..." :D

Edited May 8, 2009 by LJF

[Placebo 29]

He knows what he said wrong, if he proves ownership of ArmA he'll probably get a reprieve :)

[whisper 0]

This whole new paranoïa trend bothers me.

Case in point :

OFP protection : key and FADE. Ofp sales : million+

ArmA protection : starforce. ArmA sales : disapointing

Quality of product + user friendlyness = sales

Trying to protect poor sales anyway won't give you revenue

Edited May 8, 2009 by whisper

[suma 8]

OFP protection : key and FADE. Ofp sales : million+

ArmA protection : starforce. ArmA sales : disapointing

Let me correct the basic facts:

OFP protection: key + Macrovision disc protection + FADE

Arma protection: key + SecuROM or Starforce disc protection or Stream or ... discless protection (depending on distribution) + Degrade

[Redkid Joker 0]

A simple disc-check and CD-key works perfectly fine and is no hassle at all. That's what I would prefer.

EDIT: Basically, the ArmA securom and cd-key with fade that came with the 505 release is what I would like to see with A2. Online activation is a bit too much, due to some times when you want to install without internet.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Redkid Joker

[whisper 0]

Let me correct the basic facts:

OFP protection: key + Macrovision disc protection + FADE

Arma protection: key + SecuROM or Starforce disc protection or Stream or ... discless protection (depending on distribution) + Degrade

Well, to be simple : OFP, no hassle, easy install, perhaps not so strong protection, though it sold very well. I don't know what Macrovision disk protection was, but I didn't even notice it, and didn't hear much whine about protection.

ArmA : cries on forums, e-drama, reports of issues, & I guess you expected better from a sales point of view?

EDIT : I know it's not in your hands, it's just the current trend of accusing the hacking market of all the bad happening in games sales, and making decisions that hurt the customer without even bothering hackers which is really annoying. I see the same thing happening in my country atm about intellectual property laws being voted, and it's imho being completely counter-productive.

Edited May 8, 2009 by whisper

[EDcase 87]

I vote keep the same system as ArmA1

No online registration pls.

[stebbi92 0]

If ArmA 2 will require activation online like Mercenaries 2 did, i will have to reconsider buying it, and probably many others here. For example, i live in Iceland, Internet services are expensive and limited, My internet is usually closed down for the last few days of the month because of bandwith limitations, and it's extremely annoying when you can't play the game you want to because the devs decided to try to protect their product that then got cracked.

Conclusion: DON'T put online activation, installation limits or anything alike on ArmA 2, Plus, CD-Keys work fine, don't they, everything gets cracked, no matter how hard you try.

[echo1 0]

If ArmA 2 will require activation online like Mercenaries 2 did, i will have to reconsider buying it, and probably many others here. For example, i live in Iceland, Internet services are expensive and limited, My internet is usually closed down for the last few days of the month because of bandwith limitations, and it's extremely annoying when you can't play the game you want to because the devs decided to try to protect their product that then got cracked.

Conclusion: DON'T put online activation, installation limits or anything alike on ArmA 2, Plus, CD-Keys work fine, don't they, everything gets cracked, no matter how hard you try.

Have you ever played a game that requires online activation?

Any of the ones I have used (GTA4 and several others that I can't remember immediately) required you to activate once after installation. The activation process was done in seconds, even if you did it on dialup it wouldn't take that long.

You'd swear some people would prefer something like Starforce over a simple online activation or Steam...

Conclusion: DON'T put online activation, installation limits or anything alike on ArmA 2, Plus, CD-Keys work fine, don't they, everything gets cracked, no matter how hard you try.

So the game devs should just give up fighting against piracy? And go bankrupt as a consequence? It's like "We'll never be able to stop drug dealers not matter hard we try, so we should let them do anything they want".

Seriously, get your facts right and think a little bit before making posts like that. :icon_rolleyes:

@Whisper: Because one online service is bad doesn't mean that they all are. I've used ones with any other games that don't have any problems. Sure there's the possibility that they might use a bad system, but the odds are that are equal to them using a bad offline anti-piracy system... At any rate, I doubt BIS would make the same mistake twice.

Edited May 9, 2009 by echo1

[Deadfast 43]

..

ArmA : cries on forums, e-drama, reports of issues, & I guess you expected better from a sales point of view?

TBH I don't remember any huge "e-drama".

I vote keep the same system as ArmA1

StarForce?

Thanks, I'll pass...

I just hope that online activation = no CD check

[sbsmac 0]

I would prefer online activation (and distribution) via Steam. It's been completely painless on the >10 games I've bought over the system and allows me to install/reinstall those games on any of the machines I own as many times as I like.

I bought my copy of Arma online via Morphicon and was most frustrated with their policy of 5 (I think) total activations. I wouldn't buy from them again if they kept the same conditions.

[Stimpak_Addict 0]

Well, on the issue of piracy:

Anti-piracy usually ends up attracting piracy. For example: Spore was the most pirated game of 2008 because of DRM. Anti-piracy also costs money. So let's go over the facts.

1. Piracy = less money.

2. Anti-piracy = less money.

Sadly, developers lose either way. :(

[versus 0]

this topic has been debated to death ever since the release of bioshock and

frankly i'm amazed to see that some publishers still even consider using that

crap. there are so many reasons against it so and so few for it that it should

basically be a no-brainer. the best argument publishers seem to be able to

come up with is

"...but you don't need to have the disc in your drive anymore!"

great.

let's take a look at the con's

securom/online activation:

- does not "protect against piracy" no matter what sony dadc says

- potentially prevents the user from installing his product if for some reason

there is no internet connection available or there are problems with the

activation server (never mind those people who simply don't have internet)

- actually makes pirated versions more appealing and user friendly than the

"real thing" (people love to pay a lot of money for all those problems caused

by so called "copy protections"! it really makes them feel appreciated.;))

also

- securom causes installation problems with many disc-drives that fail to

recognize original discs as such (i'm speaking from experience here)

- limited activations destroy any resell-value of the game and heavily limits

usability compared to what gamers used to buy in stores, yet the pricing

stays the same

long story short: if arma2 uses online activiation i won't be buying it.

[echo1 0]

Yay! More bad arguments against online activation (and copyright protection in general). What have we got...

Spore was the most pirated game of 2008 because of DRM.

I think at best you are giving a very one sided view of the matter - did you consider that the huge press coverage of the game and the whole Sims heritage might have contributed to demand?

Anti-piracy usually ends up attracting piracy

For some "1337 hax0rz" yeah. I won't deny it. However, the average Joe Soap on the street doesn't pirate games for the sake of it, or because he wants to crack the latest version of Securom. They just wan't games because they've seen it and it looks cool. DRM system or otherwise is not really a contributing factor here.

- does not "protect against piracy" no matter what sony dadc says

Of course people will get around the security, but what you ignore is that the fact that a well protected game can end up with is rather elaborate and confusing cracks that put off the average PC user (ie. about 80-90% of the demographic that downloads games illegally) who probably don't want to go through all the hassle. Even if the copy right protection is only a hinderence to preventing widespread piracy of the game, then it has worked. The keyword is deterrence. No one said that copy protection will get rid of pirates, like just about every other precaution in life, it's about risk management. At the end of the day, if you are a game developer/publisher, something will have to be done to prevent people stealing your game. Some methods of doing this are better than others. I completely agree that some of the more draconian ways are completely unnecessary, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that they are all bad. So let's get over the idea that copy protection is going to disappear overnight because you couldn't reinstall Bioshock ten thousand times or whatever.

On the same note -

Anti-piracy also costs money. So let's go over the facts.

1. Piracy = less money.

2. Anti-piracy = less money.

That's a bit like -

"Paying health insurance - less money

Having to pay for brain surgery out of your back pocket - less money"

It ignores the fact that one is more costly than the other. If anyone could pirate your game without any effort whatsoever, you wouldn't stand a chance, especially in this wonderous "Bit-torrent" age that we live in. A small company like BIS especially can't afford to take chances.

- securom causes installation problems with many disc-drives that fail to

recognize original discs as such (i'm speaking from experience here)

Great. Now, what has that got to do with online activation?

- actually makes pirated versions more appealing and user friendly than the

"real thing" (people love to pay a lot of money for all those problems caused

by so called "copy protections"! it really makes them feel appreciated.)

Why oh why does everyone assume the worst case scenario? There are some perfectly alright online activation systems - eg. GTA4 and Fallout3 and Steam (Yes, I know, you all probably hate steam with a vengeance, but I think it's good) that work fine and cause no problems and have no arbitrary limitations on them. If BIS or 505 games or whoever made some DRM system like Spore, believe me, I'd be really pissed off about it. It's just that online activation and idiotic DRM systems are not always interlinked, no matter what raving showers of Steam haters would have the world believe. Besides - if disc-based copy protection continues going in the Starforce direction, then you'll have real problems...

- limited activations destroy any resell-value of the game and heavily limits

usability compared to what gamers used to buy in stores, yet the pricing

stays the same

Here again, we assume that BIS and it's associated publishers all out to get us. This is the company that let us use OFP and ArmA without a disc about a year or two after they are released. I don't think they're going to arbitrarily cut short the amount of times we can reinstall the game.

- potentially prevents the user from installing his product if for some reason

there is no internet connection available or there are problems with the

activation server

Once again, we assume that all online activation systems are evil and require you to activate everytime you play the game.

(never mind those people who simply don't have internet)

Very wise suggestion - I mean, how many people have a nice big shiny gaming PC, but absolutely no way to access the internet? Even if there are a tiny amount of such people, should the whole world design software around them? I think not.

Really, what it boils down to is enough FUD to fill several Olympic-sized swimming pools, combined with the usual Steam bashing and "Spore's DRM screwed me over, ergo all online activation systems are evil" type nonsense. There's no real alternative solution being provided here, other than getting rid of copy protection entirely, which is just idiotic, and isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

Rant Concluded.

Edited May 9, 2009 by echo1
Needed to be tidied up a bit, and correction of typos.

[Balschoiw 0]

I still guess this is a very valid point:

Also keep in mind that companies sometimes do not exist forever. This could also mean that if BIS for any reason goes bancrupt or is bought by another company it could mean that you can´t install or play your game anymore. There are really old games that I still play and the companies that have made them do not exist anymore. In that case it would leave me with a DVD I paid for but can never again use.

It´s not like software companies don´t go bankrupt these days...

[echo1 0]

That is a question of implementation. If I was designing the game activation system, I'd put the check as you ran the game for the first time after installation, and leave it so that it could be removed by a later patch. That way, years down the line, all you have to do is make sure the game is patched before running it. That of course, isn't a million miles dissimilar to what they do already with disabling FADE/Securom in their previous releases.

[Stimpak_Addict 0]

What I wouldn't mind:

An anti-piracy system that does a disc check the eighth(because I like the number eight) time you start up the game, then you could use the game as much as you wanted without the disc, except for when you uninstall the game then reinstall it again.