Arma 2 like Project Reality?

[vilas 474]

Well I do disagree a bit there if you dont like flashpoint/arma you will not like mods made for it either. The base feel stays pretty much the same meaning movement and aiming system. Its all modable sure but there is large difference between riverbatlle/berzerk and battlefield other than just body hitpoints :D

It will keep you from getting bored though.

have you ever played :

- Unsung, VTE mods missions ?

- Lego wars

- Lost World with dinosaurs

- 1864 Civil War mod

- Liberation mod

- Zombie mods

- Rambo mod

- FDF mod when Airut starts it's music - i have ripped Airut music from FDF mod and i like it till today, as well as OFP sound track by Seven/Seventh :)

- etc. etc. etc.

i played OFP since 2002, althought i am on this forum since 2004

first OFP missions have "feel", vanila Arma has no feeling at all, but when you will put custom mod , and watch your beloved cars/vehicles near by and beeing in role of for example 1985 soldier of Czechoslovakia, Poland, DDR, Soviet Union

have you ever ? or you just played vanila Arma 1 ?

for me ... i will never forget "steal the car", 1-st mission of OFP, i played it so many many times, changing mods, units

those birds sounds, messages... OFP have this "feel" till today, like RTCW or AVP1 or Max Payne "there was death in the air at Rasco street station", ehhhh :) dreeeam, dream

when i finished P85, now i have some time to play OFP again on new PC , cause since year i had no OFP on disc

and it has this feel for sure

Edited May 5, 2009 by vilas

[twisted 127]

i moved from joint ops to bf2 and then to project reality to OFP looking for more authentic gameplay and never looked back.

the strange thing is that Project reality has touches that really would add more immersion to arma - mostly in the functional system around the weapons like deployable bipods that make a real difference to accuracy, no reticules (the false floating icon indicating where your gun is pointing), weapons 'handle' as close to reality as possible within engine with no concession for easier gameplay - if you want that weapon you neeed to understand it and the way it handles, kit limiting, some weapons have suppression effects.

however despite all those things i still enjoy arma more. that doesn't mean there aren't things BIS and the modders in general may learn from it.

[sidhellfire 0]

I was really looking forward into the PR-MOD. When I was working in a factory I've met person, who recommended me this game. If someone tries it, with experience in OFP/ArmA he will be disappointed as I were. It's all about running, going prone, and shooting instantly in the head. It's just a shooter, with instant CQB engagements, and silly respawns. The whole 'realism' thing, is just in background, and game focuses on rush'n'get them! It is just the same shelf, as Americas Army and Red Orchestra. In ArmA you do not focus on being competitive, but on accomplishing mission objectives. You have that fun in sharing success with friends, and the brain decides who has greater survival chances instead of reflex.

[Uroboros 10]

Ah but can you judge a pvp game then if you seem to favour coop? ;)

Zombie mods

I like these mods a lot but my friends for example didnt like ofp.

And even after trieing to play some cool mods with them they stayed on that opinion. The only games that do have effect on this are rts games.

In rts games the feel is mostly the same. But unit ballance/price etc can ruin the atmoshpere then a mod can fix it.

If you dont like not having a fast button to board a vehicle, or extra time needed to aim and not being able to shoot while running at all and no mod is going to safe you then :)

[Alex72 1]

...In the end this IS arma and not some BF game. So there is no need to even discuss that arma should maybe cross over and become a semi run and gun game. This is arma and i love it because of just that. Love it cause its "slower" and need tactics. Need more tactics (not talking only of fast movement) because it is clunkier like REALITY. Yes i call reality clunky for the fact that in real life you cannot run around like a kid on speed because of something called stamina and weight/gravity. Both are very cruel to your movement and aim. It IS clunky in real life. If you dont believe me grab a backpack with 20-50 pounds. Dress yourself in heavy clothing simulating also helmet/armour. Carry a rifle (soft air maybe i dont know) and start running. Then go to crouch or prone - aim - then get up again and start over with the running. You dont do that for very long before you look like a half dead drunk moron. Anyway this is how i see it and it suits me just fine cause i know ArmA2 will be a bit tuned up in this departement.

Some things are improved from ArmA1 like move and reload plus hopefully being able to do something with the bino's and shoulder launched rockets. Bino's i hope will just get drawn away from your viewing if you start move while watching (hold in hands like a pistol kinda). And that we can do some maneuver away from a threat when having a shoulder launched rocket up. I know there are other improvements over ArmA1. I just know it. Mark my words. But make arma more like fast floating around on the map with super fast weapon changes and jumping around like some fucking freak? No thanks. That belongs in those games. IMO ofcourse. Feel free to disagree.

Final word. Like i said im sure ArmA2 will feel nicer so to those who thinks ArmA1 is way clunky this should be better. It might not feel BF2 ofcourse, and i thank the BIS gods for that halleluljah amen.

[sidhellfire 0]

Well I believe I can. Had quite colorful past. Was bit into Counter-Strike, and quite decent in Quake (ProMode). Even started in OFP as a clannie (not in the hexenkessell tho', but CTF/C&H maps). Can't say I'm only coop oriented player, since I kinda liked new 'casual games' like Battlefield Heroes, or countless mmorpg games (time wasted :S), where everything is a rat race.

The thing is, that after seeing Poseidon-based games, it's just disgusting to see others claiming PR to be realistic because you know it's lie. The sad thing is that they don't even realize they're wrong. It has realistic aspects, but overall only details differ PR from Insurgency mod, same details differ Insurgency HL2 mod from Call of Duty4, and same goes with CoD4 compared to Counter-Strike. ArmA is just a totally original concept, which approaches the subject the proper way - the way which does not vaporise context which is essential. It's like saying that someone is talking about sex, because every second word is "f*ck" or "b*ch".

[Uroboros 10]

Batlefield heroes finally out? I checked it out in summer but it wasnt finnished then.

Guess im also same type of gamer then. Agree about mmorpgs just created to make people addicted, but i also find myself trieing them out. But im resolute about it now.

But same things annoy me to see game developer talk about his game being realistic and then see something completely idiot happening in a cutscene 5 seconds later ;)

I do hope arma2 will have some extra features for cadet settings arma 1 seemed very unfriendly when it came to pvp ballance. And I like coop no doubt about so I want the game to be nice and as realisticly possible but I also enjoy pvp and then ballance between vehicles etc is hard to find while for pvp its the only game that offers this gameplay.

[nodunit 397]

When he said "play like" I think he meant certain aspects of it.

Crew kit required for drive or gun from armor and APC's, pilot kits required to operate aircraft.

People must be in the same squad to operate APC's, Armor and aircraft, making squad chat more useful and so you don't get some tart inside your vehicle to screw everything up.

Other then that I can't think of much else that Arma2 doesn't already have.

We have LGB's and laser designators, vehicle respawan is set by mission maker, kill system works about the same way. Health systems are similar except that you can't revive people in ArmaII Although the bleeding aspect in PR is great, especially when you start blacking out.

[Alex72 1]

Limit who can get into what vehicle thanks to squad belonging is not sim-style. Simulator oriented programs more often let anyone do anything. Wich is how we want it thank you very much.

Limiting is for kids who needs rules. Thats why kids dont like sims because it becomes a chaotic mess for them without rules.

[fuzzhead 0]

Please guys, especially those who haven't played the mod, no need to have baseless criticism. The two games are simular in that they both strive for tactics/realism/teamplay, but their scope and engines are quite different, as is the player base.

I play both Armed Assault and Project Reality and I believe there is good things and bad things about both.

Barry1039: I find the main thing that is alot better in PR in is the player base. Typically I've found that players in Armed Assault public servers are of lower quality / lonewolf players, and coming from a Sim background you would expect ALOT more from them. Go to any typical Evolution / Domination server and you will know what I mean. And not just the lack of quality players, its the lack of players PERIOD. The fact that PR peaks at around 1200 players concurrently a night and ArmA is lucky to get 500, says alot about the 2 games.

I love ArmA (and especially ACE mod for it) and I feel it currently delivers a better gameplay experience than PR (when you can actually get some good players), but I feel there is alot of things that ArmA2 could take from PR as an example of how to develop a healthy public community based on teamwork and realism.

Heres a post I made over a year ago and I think the points I made back then are still mostly valid:

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlefield-2-project-reality-mod/112828-pr-versus-armed-assault.html

I wont go into details about what I think ArmA2 should include from PR... but I just wanted to say I hope BIS have a better plan for public ArmA2 gameplay, as I dont think the current ArmA public gameplay is healthy and conductive to good teamwork, no offense but I would rather play some old game like wolfenstein than play with the majority of the public ArmA userbase, and I cant help but think it would have been much better had some better missions come along other than Evolution and Domination.

Alex[Dev]72 maybe youve played on different servers than I have, but the VAST majority of ArmA players play exactly like that: a bunch of kids without any clue as to what real modern combat is like.... not trying to say I'm better than them or I have experience of modern warfare, but just to say that majority of ArmA public gameplay I have encountered is a complete "chaotic mess"..... maybe Im playing on the wrong servers.

Edited May 6, 2009 by fuzzhead

[Alex72 1]

I dont play on pub servers since there ARE kids everywhere. Every sim running publicly will get abused sooner or later since there are a lot of kids and morons out there. But i was talking about limiting a game wich IS needed for kids. Kids needs rules or chaos will rule. Im not talking specifically of BFPR. But that sims most often lack rules since it tries to reflect reality and therefor its up to the player(s) what the rules are. Most often adults can handle this better than kids even though there are bright minds in all ages.

Alex

[fuzzhead 0]

Well thats my point, if the veterans/leaders of the community only ever play on password/locked servers, than how will this community ever grow? Or do you think that its fine having no publically available servers with good gameplay for ArmA2? That its MANDATORY to join a private group in order to have a positive online experience with this game?

Well if thats the case, you can probably expect the online to be mass chaos as you described, and prety much turn away most potential buyers when they see how horrifyingly stupid the playerbase is... and thats where I think the PR mod has an advantage, there is very little passworded servers (only on special events) and a percentage of the public servers has some very organized teamwork/tactics happening every single night....

I wish the same to happen to ArmA2 but I fear that its going to go the same route as ArmA1... no control.... mass chaos... immature kids run the public servers and ruin any chance of an open fun community where you dont have to join a private group to have a good game.

[whisper 0]

72;1280346']I dont play on pub servers since there ARE kids everywhere. Every sim running publicly will get abused sooner or later since there are a lot of kids and morons out there. But i was talking about limiting a game wich IS needed for kids. Kids needs rules or chaos will rule. Im not talking specifically of BFPR. But that sims most often lack rules since it tries to reflect reality and therefor its up to the player(s) what the rules are. Most often adults can handle this better than kids even though there are bright minds in all ages.

Alex

Kids...

they are evil.

EVIL I tell thee!!!

[vilas 474]

kids no alowing play MP ?

thats why there are clanes

me personally - i have no time to play MP, i hope i will find some time, but than i will kindly ask a some clan to play, because there are serious people , not CS-kids

[nodunit 397]

72;1280346']But that sims most often lack rules since it tries to reflect reality and therefor its up to the player(s) what the rules are.

So then you think that it is realistic that basic infantry should have the knowledge of piloting aircraft and using armor?

And if what I've read about the passworded servers is true then I agree with fuzzhead, Arma2 is doomed to the same problem as Arma1 and it's all the player fault.

Edited May 6, 2009 by NodUnit

[Andi 10]

Well, I consider myself not a kid, and still I like to play on public servers. I never play on passworded servers. I simply don't have the time and the nerve to play in clans or searching forums or whatever to find a pw for some server where 3 "serious" people are playing.

Public servers are mostly full and if they are well maintained (say, an admin is there most of the time) the problem with the kids disappears next to automatically.

OK, I don't know about all the game modes, but my opinion goes with Warfare.

And if you're honest, we all once were noobs (or kids).

[Alex72 1]

Ofcourse we were all noobs and kids at some point. That still isnt my point though. And look for passworded servers with 3 serious players? I play with friends and teams where i know they are serious. ARMA just is that kind of game where serious (but fun!) play works best and brings the nicest experience. Just look at PC-GAMER where they said ARMA1 was crap and after they got to play with the Shack Tactical team (very tight team) they loved it and said that you truly start to understand and enjoy the potential of ARMA when you play in a serious and tight team.

Only time i have real fun in ARMA when playing a short time and not with a tight team is when i do some DM. But for serious missions etc i want to know that people listens to you or whoever is the teamleader and that the map is used to organize everyone with the use of markers etc.

But the main point here was from start that some wanted ARMA to be merged with BF kind of gamestyle. I just dont agree. There are games and sims on the market. Let them stay that way. I dont want sims to be watered down and become simpler or more unrealistic. Once again though - thats only my opinion.

Alex

[celery 8]

The solution to the public chaos is properly orchestrated missions and that's in the hands of both mission makers and server admins. Evolution/Domination and Berzerk are extremely popular but everyone is pretty much free to do their own thing with no enticement to do stuff for the greater good other than your kill count.

Since missions are ultimately what we play in Arma, their objectives and intended methods should be clear to everyone and different roles should be equally rewarding, if nothing else then by giving points for non-killing tasks. That's where mission makers should look at other games and see how their multiplayer modes are done. Of course it's not like I have made any missions more complex than deathmatch and other simple pvp but I like to make DMs because whatever the players do, it's in line with the objective which is everyone for themselves, thus the missions are almost always "perfect" with little trouble.

[nodunit 397]

72;1280382']But the main point here was from start that some wanted ARMA to be merged with BF kind of gamestyle. I just dont agree. There are games and sims on the market. Let them stay that way. I dont want sims to be watered down and become simpler or more unrealistic. Once again though - thats only my opinion.

Alex

BF2 style? I see you've never played Project Reality or read its manual http://realitymodfiles.com/rhino/PR_Manual.pdf of course that doesn't really say much about the experience itself. After awhile you learn PR and OFP have quite a bit in common.

Edited May 6, 2009 by NodUnit

[whisper 0]

72;1280382']But the main point here was from start that some wanted ARMA to be merged with BF kind of gamestyle. I just dont agree. There are games and sims on the market. Let them stay that way. I dont want sims to be watered down and become simpler or more unrealistic. Once again though - thats only my opinion.

Alex

In my PoV, ArmA has something that other FPS don't have. And that is NOT realism/simulation side.

I'd hope that it's possible to make good use of it in a gameplay manner (as opposed to "simulation" manner) without having hordes of simulation knights jumping off their high horse into my back because I don't follow their vision of how ArmA should be played.

As long as it doesn't remove a needed feature for you guys, what are you complaining about?

[vilas 474]

as i said above

Arma alows for more details, you cannot compare mod made by community with official game

official developer not care if PKM has 2 or 3 rivets on mechanism holding cover, good addonmaker cares

but Arma offers much better graphics level, so weapon/vehicle made in Arma will be much better than such one in BF game

i have looked at PR for BF, it looks super, but when you will compare their AK detalisation/model/ or other BF models with models of AK in Arma than you will see real mod in Arma will be always better

in PR they have how many polygons on AK ?

what is polycount for soldier ?

on one forum i have read that BF man model has polycount 3000, well... my pouches for VOG 40 mm grenade, AK pouch and some gear on Soviet soldier has such polycount not including man

my AK has such polycount without scope or grenade launcher

in Arma you have better possibility than in BF

i wonder what is polycount and detalisation of vehicle for example tank like T55 ?

one wheel from Rygugu is better than whole BF tank

and metallic look of tank turret ?

Arma is better

and OFP had 20 interesting mods offering variety from dinosaurs, by lego and Rambo to star wars era

[Steakslim 1]

I like PR entirely for it's teamwork aspect. It inforces it very well in my mind. As for realism itself, I find PR actually lacking this, be it a bad decision from the mod makers, or something that's at fault by BF2's game engine itself. There's a great game there, but I imagine piggybacking off of BF2 is a bad idea for a realism mod. I went from PR to ArmA, and I was astounded by it, and this was just the demo of ArmA, it only got better when I purchased the game and discovered AceMod.

I more and more prefere objective based gameplay over a point system, be it kill count, tickets, or what ever countless ways games use to represent who has the most kills, skills, and cheap shots. I did like Crysis' prestige system though, for rewarding you with currency for just about anything from radar scans to marking and blowing up empty or manned enemy vehicles (not having to worry about getting kills to afford your weaponry in Power Struggle), however that game itself isn't very realistic (it's more like playing in a Michael Bay movie) so I'll just leave it at that.

[nodunit 397]

...

When Barry1039 asked if Arma would be like PR he meant most likely in terms of teamwork aspects. I think before you reply to the question you should take some time to do a bit of research on the subject or don't reply at all.

True there are some things I myself would like to see, a weapons stockpile would be an interesting scenerio.

A good realistic point of it would be again, basic infantry don't have knkowledge of how to use armor or sophisticated vehicles such as helicopters (otherwise they wouldn't be grunts).

However the kit limiting is a moot point since that is up to the mission maker to place whatever they want, which is generally diverse so that's not a problem

But I won't lie and say there isn't anything wrong with a person fighting on ground, getting into a tank then moving onto aircraft and then using explosives to blow something up while being a rifleman the entire time and I know I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

The rest of this is to reply to Barry1039

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now if you are still reading Barry1039 then the locked kits is sot of in Arma2 except it's from the beginning and mostly permiment, it's also up the mission maker. Online the people select soldiers otherwise AI or no which says what type of unit they are. You will use that weapon until you kill someone and take theirs BUT your weapon never dissapears (or atleast not for a long time).

This way you still get the diversity PR gave with kit limiting but in a more realistic fashion. Of course this is not to say that the mission maker can't just put all one type, that's one of the great freedoms of this game.

When shot you take different kinds of wounds, shot to the arms will reduce your accuracy, the more damage the more your gun will sway. If shot in the legs you will no longer be able to walk, jog or run, only crawl. The chest can take a few shots but a shot to the head is instant death and there is no reviving here. Once you're dead you're dead and unless the mission maker added it specificly..there is no respawn.

APC's, IFV's and Armor are similar in PR that you require atleast two people to efficiently operate it, third (or even fourth for the abrams) is optional. However tanks are more liable to danger as they have various 'damage points' rather then being one solid vehicle. you can take more shots to the front and sides then you can the back and your top.

If your treads take enough damage they will cease to work. Your turret can take enough damage that the gun falls down and cannot lift up.

Wheeled vehicles can have their tires shot to immobilize them, making them that much more dangerous to use. Also vehicles generally DO NOT EVER respawn, in PR they had a time limit of 5 to 20 minute pending on type, here you get none, you lose it you lost it.

If you used armor in PR much especially the abrams and fought many distance battles with the zoomed optics then you should be in okay shape for Arma2's. Tank battles are often at very long range distances, longer then PR's but you will rarely if ever see a close up engagement like bf2's.

Weapons are more accurate then PR but more realistic with ballistics, bullets actually drop and ricochet which does make for a great late night light show when gunning from a chopper.

You can also shoot people through most vehicles glass with any (or mostly) any weapon.

If you speak online people will hear it (unless your using ventrilo or something to that degree).

As Vilas said units are more detailed as well, but don't worry you'll be running atleast 50 at a time, the engine is very optimized in terms of polygons and because of the way it deals with LOD's you'll likely see more detail on the interior INSIDE then you would outside, it won't look the same as in PR.

Edited May 6, 2009 by NodUnit

[whisper 0]

Errr..

Class definitions, as well as limitation of who can drive which vehicle, is ENTIRELY in the hand of mission designer and completely possible in OFP, ArmA, and ofc ArmA2.

This is where comparison with other FPS like BF with locked gameplay/gametypes should not be done, because ArmA doesn't suffer from these limitations.

What you cannot change without addons/mods in ArmA (ie, without the player downloading said addons beforehand and launching the game in a special manner with addons activated, meaning it's a bit out of average public players reach ;) ) are weapons behavior, character behavior (damage, movement, animations), vehicles and their caracteristics, physics and simulation (including ballistics), etc....

Everything about gameplay design (respawn system, class system, objectives, etc...) is up to mission designer and will not require any action from the "average public player" (as mission is automatically downloaded upon connection to the server)

Imho, BI should concentrate on making the whole character handling, weapon handling, physics & simulation, vehicle handling & caracteristics as smooth and playable as possible, without giving up on the realism aspect (which is THE tough part for them, reading the neverending fights on forums between realism freaks and CQB lovers), and not touch the rest because WE will have all the tools at hand to design our game as we wish.

Edited May 7, 2009 by whisper

[fuzzhead 0]

yes I agree with you whisper, let the modders take over and get a gameplay that suits them.

But you also must agree, that by and large ArmA1 mission designers FAILED to create realistic mission design....

Look at the state of public arma servers and its easy to see that the 3 most popular missions played that take up 80-90% of the public servers (Evolution /Domination /Warfare), do not have any of this class limiting and is designed for solo gameplay with little effort on realism or teamwork / tactics.

So I agree let the mission designers have the freedom, but lets hope for ArmA2 the popular missions dont turn out to be like evolution/domination.

No offense to those who like those missions.