CDF Revealed!

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I strongly disagree with the "Nobody can take inspiration from pre-rendered CG, it's fake." statement. This is what engine coders has been doing from day one: Make simplified yet 'realistic' (remember when '

' was called realistic since it had reflections, lol) real time versions of what exists in rendering software. I mention shadowcasting; realtime creation of 'shadowmaps' to simulate rendered shadowmaps or raytraced shadows.

Or more recently, implementation of image based lighting, ambient occlusion and radiosity like indirect illumination techniques which earlier took ages on that scale. It still take ages, but now we've increased the resolution and scene complexity.

In fact I will say that engine designers strive to mimic the already false world of CG because of its simplistic nature, than nature itself which can't be mimiced in a timely fashion.

Also, imho (!, I think that in some cases early so-called 'prerendered' imagery from games has been ingame effects that later had to be dismissed due to performance or incompatibility issues later in the development cycle.

Also, isn't there usually something called 'concept art'? Real or fake, this is the 'goal' though rarely achiveable..?

--- Well, enough of that from me anyways... ---

Back on track though. The video claims that CDF has no special forces. Does this mean that they have no such representation in the game whatsoever, or just in the campaign? If not in the game, it narrows down the choices for multiplayer mission designs.

Quote[/b] ]They said that competition inspired them to work harder, not that they were taking lessons from CM propaganda. Even back when the OFP2 renders first came out, Ohara's words were something like, "We are finishing up the game, and they are still in the promises phase. Promises can be anything". Does that sound inspired to you?

Seems like propaganda 'warmonging' to me, yes, sure, but from both camps. What, you didn't expect this?

Most of us here will buy both games, almost regardless. I bet they both offer far longer gameplay and military realism for the buck than most other games. Who will 'win'? What's even the point at discussing it at this stage? They both have features that I value highly.

[Dwarden 1124]

why inspire from such CG video while You have thousands of high quality video and audio recordnings from real warfare with real military ...

there are many indepenent made CG movies and short animations which are way better than this PR one ...

so as long there is nothing in such CG video worth to 'inspire from' why discuss it ?

[Rak 0]

Well it's obvious after OFP and many VBS' they don't get any inspiration from RL about this matter, one can think they could from OFP2 video as it shows how awesome it could be in a video game.

[Brendon 0]

the CDF are stooges of the West!!

I so gonna shoot their troops during the campaign, hell if i can, i'm gonna call in a artillery strike on them.

Well i hope they use different tactics then the commies if they are trained by the west. In OFP and ArmA the East and West AI use the same tactics during a fire fight and operating with vehicles.

seemly its not the case, making 2 set of AI using different tactics would just cause too much time and work that makes it unreasonable

Don't make excuses for them. This was exactly the problem in ArmA as well. Having a bunch of untrained communist soldiers who could super-shoot you six hundred meters away with an AK 47.

[walker 0]

Don't make excuses for them. This was exactly the problem in ArmA as well. Having a bunch of untrained communist soldiers who could super-shoot you six hundred meters away with an AK 47.

Hi all

We still have people who do not know the difference between the AK47 and the AK74 used in ArmA.

You would have thought people could at least use Google or even Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74

Educate your self.

Comparing the AK47 of myth and legend with the AK74.

The bullet is different

The mechanics are different

The accuracy is vastly different

As a weapon is straight up comparable with the M16/M4.

You are caught up in the mythology of the AK47.

You are thinking that the AK47 you see in civil wars and conflicts around the world and manufactured from bits of pipe and old tins or at best the worn out weapons sold from conflict to conflict, by the the likes of Viktor Bout, and exported from every pirate and dodgy factory around the world and used in every conflict since the Korean war, and loaded with bullets from every backyard factory and bazar workshop, and filled with everything from fireworks fuel and old match heads and even sand and charcoal; is the same as the AK74 designed and developed and manufactured in the Izhmash factories in Russia; they are not.

I do not think you are taken out regularly in vanilla ArmA with your mythical AK47 at 600m.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Weapons

because as you can see there AIN'T ONE!

More likely it was PK or an SVD. An AK74 with sights could do it though.

Effective range 100–1,000 m sight adjustments

350–500 m sight adjustments (AKS-74U)

As to your attitude to communist troops thank god NATO does not underestimate potential foes as you do.

Kind Regards walker

[max power 21]

Okay, the reason why you don't want to rely on art to produce other art when you're going for realism is that you don't want to emulate the inaccuracies that are unavoidably produced by the perception and skill level of the other artist. Even Michaelangelo's David is not perfectly accurate, and does not serve as a definitive anatomy study. You can look at that and say, 'wow, that's great. I want to do a sculpture now', but in terms of using it as reference, as CM are using their target renders as reference, it should be avoided. Remember, we are talking about two master sculptors here, evaluating each other's work. Strategic evaluation motivation by competition is not the same as artistic inspiration.

I think the crux of the matter is that the way inspired was used initially implied 'use as reference,' or 'standing in awe,' or something like that. If 'inspiration' was changed to 'competitive motivation', I think that would be more accurate of the situation.

[Alex72 1]

Might not make it exactlly as the render CM made, but still got the inspiration from the CM render to make the excisting effect more dramatic. Who knows. Scenario could happen though.

Its true though, making effects after someone elses idea when you shoot for realism can be a very bad idea.

BTW i didnt want to babble about this lol.

Alex

[Spetz 0]

@walker

sir, he just made a small mistake (or a generalized comment) about the ak-47 used communist forces that are able to shoot 600m,

the Commies in ArmA 2 are insurgents/rag tag army trying to win Independence.

We could atleast expect them to behave like a little less organized then the NATO forces.

[derk yall 0]

Well, about isurgents, you never know if it's a unskilled farmer boy, or a skilled ex-military personel. And still, they could have a good leader, who give them training.

[POTS 0]

Well, about isurgents, you never know if it's a unskilled farmer boy, or a skilled ex-military personel. And still, they could have a good leader, who give them training.

Thats what the skill bar is for

[derk yall 0]

I meaned in strategy.

[max power 21]

The strategic aims of the forces involved are dictated by the mission or campaign maker. Not to mention the size, composition, and positions of the forces.

[HellToupee 0]

Well, about isurgents, you never know if it's a unskilled farmer boy, or a skilled ex-military personel. And still, they could have a good leader, who give them training.

Thats what the skill bar is for

Some people wont be happy until skill level for all bad guys is set to imperial storm trooper.

[dangmypoons 1]

i cant wait for this game, I'm getting more and more impressed with the vids they bring out.

[walker 0]

@walker

sir, he just made a small mistake (or a generalized comment) about the ak-47 used communist forces that are able to shoot 600m,

the Commies in ArmA 2 are insurgents/rag tag army trying to win Independence.

We could atleast expect them to behave like a little less organized then the NATO forces.

Hi all

In reply to Spetz:

Yes but as I pointed out there is not an AK47 in vanilla ArmA.

Quote[/b] ]I do not think you are taken out regularly in vanilla ArmA with your mythical AK47 at 600m.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Weapons

because as you can see there AIN'T ONE!

More likely it was PK or an SVD. An AK74 with sights could do it though.

Effective range 100–1,000 m sight adjustments

350–500 m sight adjustments (AKS-74U)

From my post on the previous page

Quote[/b] ]the Commies in ArmA 2 are insurgents/rag tag army trying to win Independence.

This is incorrect, have you played the game?

Peaceful South Sahrani is invaded by the militaristic North.

From the official community Wiki

Quote[/b] ]

Story

A small US Army contingent has been sent to the Atlantic island of Sahrani with the purpose of helping to train the army of the local pro-American monarchy. The Kingdom of South Sahrani, rich in natural resources, has always been at odds with its Northern neighbor, the Democratic Republic of Sahrani. In recent years however, the situation has settled into an uneasy yet peaceful coexistence.

But the Democratic Republic of Sahrani sees the training of Southern troops by the US as a threat. When they learn that the US troops have finished their deployment and are in the process of shipping out, the North prepares to strike while a false sense of security still occupies the minds of their Southern neighbors.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_The_Game

I am convinced there are a whole bunch of people trolling this forum who have never played the game!

As to your last point if you find ArmA too hard:

Go to the community wiki it tells you how to reduce the the difficulty.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Manual#Difficulty

I think Brendon has been playing too much BF/CS/COD4, the military refused to use those games for training because they negatively trained so badly, I think OFP2 will do the same from what I saw in the videos. They teach you to stand in the middle of the street or on the crest of a hill blaizing away; suicide I call it.

I think there is a need for you to read ArmA Tactics, Techinques, & Procedures.

http://dslyecxi.com/armattp.html

Put simply:

You cannot get shot if there is hard cover between you and the shooter.

They can only shoot at you if they know where you are.

Maybe I should run a tactics class on Tuesdays on Zeus.

Kind Regards walker

[Deadfast 43]

Eh, Walker, he said ArmA 2.

[walker 0]

Eh, Walker, he said ArmA 2.

Hi all

Deadfast; he was commenting on a post by Brendon about his experiences in ArmA.

Muddying the waters to make a point is his problem.

We do not know the full story line of ArmA2 we do know there will be a Russian Faction and possibly others.

The assumption that insurgent forces are badly trained, ill disciplined and ragtag is the kind of thing that lost Russians the war in Afghanistan and the US the war in Vietnam.

Kind Regards walker

[Deadfast 43]

I was pointing out this part:

Quote[/b] ]the Commies in ArmA 2 are insurgents/rag tag army trying to win Independence.

This is incorrect, have you played the game?

Peaceful South Sahrani is invaded by the militaristic North.

....

[walker 0]

I was pointing out this part:

Quote[/b] ]the Commies in ArmA 2 are insurgents/rag tag army trying to win Independence.

This is incorrect, have you played the game?

Peaceful South Sahrani is invaded by the militaristic North.

....

Hi all

Roger understood

Kind Regards walker

[walker 0]

Hi all

If Spetz is making comments about "sanity checks" on mission making soldier Rank and Skill levels in OFP/ArmA/then I agree with him.

BUT that is not a problem with the game, that is down to mission makers, on which I agree BIS needs lessons.

I hope that BIS do a basic sanity check on all soldiers

Rank and Skill levels in missions before they go gold.

Kind Regards walker

[evilnate 0]

Cool video, I like the home-made propaganda approach. I wouldn't be surprised to see a little town called Tbilisia on this island..

As far as the whole OFP:2/DR comparison, who gives a rip? The vast majority of us on these boards are going to purchase both games anyway so why peck in the meantime?

I will form my own opinion about both after I have bought and played each. Community content creation & modification is more important than out-of-the-box presentation to me.

Can't wait to see the Russian video!  

[Spetz 0]

Hi all

If Spetz is making comments about "sanity checks" on mission making soldier Rank and Skill levels in OFP/ArmA/then I agree with him.

BUT that is not a problem with the game, that is down to mission makers, on which I agree BIS needs lessons.  

I hope that BIS do a basic sanity check on all soldiers

Rank and Skill levels in missions before they go gold.

Kind Regards walker

sir, the situation i'm trying to explain is this, communist forces in Arma one were part of a 'legitimate' organization, they are expected to behave some what organized. But in reality Communist armies are usually Conscripts which don't have the best moral, also North Saharni do not posses the Infrastructure to train modern fighting force (their armies are like 80's/late 90's, the T-72s and the KA-50 would be closer to our times) They are expected to face off US Marines, which have one to of the hardest military programs in the world. I would atleast expect the commies to behave differently (I am not saying the Commies should only carry a flag with the hammer and sickle and charge into the marines lol)

But alas i will drop my case on the ArmA one

In ArmA 2 the CDF is not a legitimate organization from their behavior in the video they are a revolutionary group that have access to military hardware, but i seriously doubt their abilities to train their units with up to par with US Marines or Even former Soviet Spetznaz units

Edit: What was i thinking CDF not being legitimate organization, CDF is the military force of Chernarus. I guess i was talking about the ChDKZ lol

[Spokesperson 0]

Many national armies are made up of conscripts. And I think that's better than armies made up by people who look for funding for studies or just plain work (due to unemployment). Also, an army made up by conscripts is a more democratic army.

Morale always depends on what the fight is about, not much if you're a conscript or not.

Real commie armies like the ones in Vietnam or Cuba proved to fight off bourgeois forces quite effectively. Same goes for China in the 30-50:ies or Nepal where the maoists recently threw off the chains of oppression. Morale and motivation is at its peak in guerilla armies. And I guess the commies in arma2 are guerillas.

It doesn't mean they have poor tactics or organization. I would say it's the contrary. Unconventional creative tactics like Guevaras Focu, or Maos people's war have proved to be very successful.

When it comes to regular socialist armies like that of North Korea I'm sure they receive much more training than most armies in the world. But, of course they don't have access to the same equipment as the US.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Its a fictional scenario with fictional storyline including fictional factions.  It depends on mission design how good or bad missions are. Lets hope we see real good campaign(s) + missions.