Stiff Standing Civilians

[Brendon 0]

Recently, the new videos have showed a good amount of animation, and while some of the civilians standing around are doing things other than having their arms straight down with their heads turned, a lot of the other civilians shown are just like it was in ArmA1.

Right now, my concern is with the stiff standing soldiers/civilian. In the newest civilian video, you see plenty of clips of civilians standing unoccupied, such as the Police Officer guarding the bomb site, using the same stiff generic standing animation as was used in Arma1. Hopefully, these are just placeholders. Same with some of the walks. Nobody idling in real life ever stands completely still, not breathing, with their hands perfectly straight pointing towards the ground.

Thanks for reading my (no matter how minor) concern.

[Electricleash 133]

I'm with you on that one... here's hoping.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I don't remember if it was in Rainbow Six 1, but in Rogue Spear you could see the team-members upper torsos expanding as they breathed.

[Brendon 0]

Not here, in Arma they stand completely still except when they need to go into a bad running animation or turn their heads.

[Maio 293]

As i said in another post , Bis should integrate some animations for the Idele units.

[BLSmith2112 0]

Yup.. they do with that one technology that simulates body movement don't they?

Ragdolls are obviously not a part of the game, so fluid movement I guess is another obstacle and another job for more animations.. I mean, there'd have to be an animation for idel1 connecting with getting shot 4, which connects to falling 7, then landing 12, then computing all possible ways the person could fall and die from standing in an idle position with it all seeming fluid. It all just... I don't know, seems a lot more complicated than it could be.

Perhaps there's something making those technology hurdles impassible.. but what do I know, I'm like, noob and stuff.

[Pyronick 21]

Yup.. they do with that one technology that simulates body movement don't they?

Ragdolls are obviously not a part of the game, so fluid movement I guess is another obstacle and another job for more animations.. I mean, there'd have to be an animation for idel1 connecting with getting shot 4, which connects to falling 7, then landing 12, then computing all possible ways the person could fall and die from standing in an idle position with it all seeming fluid. It all just... I don't know, seems a lot more complicated than it could be.

Perhaps there's something making those technology hurdles impassible.. but what do I know, I'm like, noob and stuff.

No, they create their pre-computed animations with their motion capture studio.

I think they should make even more use of it though, breathing would make the game much less uncannier.

[Brendon 0]

Breathing and some movement. Maybe have a Civilian or Soldier who is standing still switch into different positions, shift a little, and nod their head and breath will make things more realistic. Try standing still in real life, you'll still see yourself breath, bounce your arms around a little and move your head slightly from time to time.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i will not be that worryed about the AI breathe as i'll hardly gonna

notice or even look at it during some mission, what i'll notice much

more it's in fact that silly looking standing still way of the unarmed

units or civilians; there're statues more alive in hundreds of museums

in comparison with the unarmed and walking or running units. Something

to make 'em look more dinamic will be great. Let's C ya

[Electricleash 133]

I think a slightly more relaxed pose and even a minimal amount of movement incorporated into the idle stance would make quite some difference. A fidget with the arms or shoulders, changing weight from one foot to the other, something like that.

[Deadfast 43]

Well, idling armed soldiers do have animations.

They check their weapon, stretch their legs, arms and neck.

I wouldn't mind seeing such for unarmed NPCs as well

[Brendon 0]

Hi, i will not be that worryed about the AI breathe as i'll hardly gonna

notice or even look at it during some mission, what i'll notice much

more it's in fact that silly looking standing still way of the unarmed

units or civilians; there're statues more alive in hundreds of museums

in comparison with the unarmed and walking or running units. Something

to make 'em look more dinamic will be great. Let's C ya

Well yes, that too. Not just breath. Breath would be a good start, but we do need things that make them more dynamic instead of statues.

Deadfast is right, the Soldiers do have some-what of an Idle pose, it's not that good, but it's better than the Civilians. Anybody who's not armed stands completely still like a statue.

[wipman 1]

Hi, make something as few noticeable when you're playing a mission,

as breathe, will require much more work than make the unarmed or

just iddle units look less petrified (aka stoned...) some movement...

in fact change the weight from one leg to another... put the hands

in the pockets... maybe take 'em out and rub 'em a bit and breathe

on 'em to warm 'em (remember that the ArmA2 takes place in a cold

enviroment) maybe smoke for a pair of minutes and then throw the

cigarette to the ground and turn it off with the feet... all this will

require (almost) sure, less work than make every different unit to

breathe, moving the clotes on the chest and even the equipment

that it may have on the back. Will be very pimp to see it sincronized

with the unit/units breathe, at the time of run and fire; but will

add less (for me) to the game than make better still standing animations.

Let's C ya

@Edit: Still standing or just unarmed units animations in general.

[Praelium 0]

Hi, i will not be that worryed about the AI breathe as i'll hardly gonna

notice or even look at it during some mission, what i'll notice much

more it's in fact that silly looking standing still way of the unarmed

units or civilians; there're statues more alive in hundreds of museums

in comparison with the unarmed and walking or running units. Something

to make 'em look more dinamic will be great. Let's C ya

Well yes, that too. Not just breath. Breath would be a good start, but we do need things that make them more dynamic instead of statues.

Deadfast is right, the Soldiers do have some-what of an Idle pose, it's not that good, but it's better than the Civilians. Anybody who's not armed stands completely still like a statue.

I tested this and for the most part it's true. I only saw one extra animation, but that was it.

But as for the Arma II trailer, I think it looks fine. Since the NPCs aren't spinning in circles or pausing for a long second before turning, the other aspects that needed improvement fell in place, including the stiffness of the animations. Also, I don't think the standard idle animation should contain a whole lot of animations, however, I would suggest that BIS includes many scene specific animations, even if it's just for the community to use. Everything from tying a shoe to sitting at a table and eating should be included to expand the variety of detailed missions and promote community use. On top of that, BIS should give us a way to view the animations and select them for use without the need of a mod or confusing commands.

Now, what would be nice if there was a way to kind of blend the animations. For example, if I want to have a soldier standing guard, but not use just the standing idle animation then I should be able to select some subtle animations to add on top of that. Then I could have him standing, and at random times he would scratch himself, inspect or play with his weapon, yawn, ect. This may be possible in Arma, but if it is, then it could be too complicated. Of course, this leads us back to my request for an easier way to implement the animations into our characters.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that it's strange how in Arma everyone stares at my character. It's cool that BIS let the AI look around and watch my soldier, but they need to move their eyes if I walk to the side of them.

[faguss 65]

The more important thing is that the animations can't be broken. So If I have soldier looking at his weapon and suddenly bullets are flying around I would have to wait until he's done watching at his gun until he can engage.

I think this could be solved in a two ways:

1) Switchmove able to override idle animation (stop at half-state, replace with other anim). There would be no smooth transition.

2) Connect idle to stand animation and when new move is on queue then increase speed of current idle anim.

[welcome to hell 23]

I agree every civilian looked just like a civilian in arma 1 with different clothes.

Stiff standing everyone with really brought shoulders and perfect military posture.

Civilians look terrible!

[Maio 293]

Civilians look terrible!

Not them ... the idle animation looks bad

[Nigelwow 10]

it isnt realistic if a character stands still without moving a muscle

they can check their weapons ,stretch their legs etc...

[SaBrE_UK 0]

A subtle idle animation that just made them sway slightly, swing their arms or whatever a bit would be good.

[Electricleash 133]

I believe the effect given off by the weaponless characters enters the realm of; Uncanny valley

The main reason why many of the early CGI films that represented humans really failed to engage the audience.

Viewers tended to be put off or unnerved by the 'not quite human' feel of the characters.

Final fantasy was criticised heavily for this.

Due to Arma having a close to real feel, it treads a fine line on the lip of the 'valley' and frankly, in the past, has toppled in this respect.

Re: breathing... I think the character should not be 'seen' to breath per se.

It should be subtle, so as the players brain only realizes somethings wrong when the animation is not there, if that makes sense...

...much as in reality you get that cold unnerved feeling when you realize something is not breathing.

[cm 0]

A boy can dream......