One question that MANY fans care about.

[celery 8]

So who will set up a TvT server for arma2 then?

A server with mandatory team play, containing only TvT missions with no respawn.

Ive never seen such server on Arma.

Plz set one up for Arma2 and I'll play there all the time. :292:

I've been on a server like that in Armed Assault and it's really not as exciting as it might sound like. The problem with no-respawn pvp such as Attack & Defend is that people don't act like AI, there is no safe mode for players who know with 100% certainty that another human team is coming to blow up the objective. That results in a very slow-paced stakeout on both sides with defenders dug in ambush positions far from the actual objective and the attackers advancing 10 meters per minute trying to snipe any defenders they see. Then the last guy hides somewhere until he's found and killed, making the wait for the dead players simply boring. It's like Counter-Strike but 100x slower.

[Crazyfox 0]

I've been on a server like that in Armed Assault and it's really not as exciting as it might sound like. The problem with no-respawn pvp such as Attack & Defend is that people don't act like AI, there is no safe mode for players who know with 100% certainty that another human team is coming to blow up the objective. That results in a very slow-paced stakeout on both sides with defenders dug in ambush positions far from the actual objective and the attackers advancing 10 meters per minute trying to snipe any defenders they see. Then the last guy hides somewhere until he's found and killed, making the wait for the dead players simply boring. It's like Counter-Strike but 100x slower.

"don't act like AI"? I don't see why you would want players to be like that?:p

No, honestly I know what you mean. Ai soldiers are the best targets for an ambush. But if you don't have a too short timelimit you can acually do a suprise attack. I know i have.

What you describe though just sounds like a poorly made mission.

Were there only open ground, making it ideal for snipers? And were there only one way to get to the objective, since it sounds like the defenders knew where to wait for the attackers? And I think the last guy wouldn't be so hard to find if there is an objective he is supposed to defend.

I've played several Team vs team games, and I think they beat all the other gameplays. But unfortunatly these servers have coop missions as well and people who prefer coop is usually the majority.

[Frantic 0]

...Since some people here seems to long for some good PvP i hope we get some PvP servers for Arma2.

If ArmAII wont be such a bug-party like ArmA was then MCY will be happy to get a nice public PvP ArmAII server up!

You can be sure that the first custom missions on our server will be a DM mission and a CTF mission made by the MCY-mission-makers.

Now you will maybe think, "why DM and CTF?!?"

-because DM is just fun, is a good training for movements and is a very nice and fast way to get used to the different kind of handguns and rifles.

-because CTF was and still is the best teamplay experience i and many others had so far and that was OFP:RES CTF...

After having at least one good DM and CTF mission on the server, you can be sure that we will try to bring more game-modes into ArmAII. Which game-modes depends on the gameplay of ArmAII and the interests of our mission-makers.

About the PvP missions without respawns...

Im really not sure how a mission without respawn should be fun...i was even bored of CSS because of the waiting times...:o...so there needs to be at least a time-limit for a round otherwise the server ends up with just 2 guys left on it searching each other on whole Chernarus for hours...lol

Nah...i will try to think about a way to have a mission without respawns and to have fun with it at the same time...wish me luck! :D

[Crazyfox 0]

About the PvP missions without respawns...

Im really not sure how a mission without respawn should be fun...i was even bored of CSS because of the waiting times...:o...so there needs to be at least a time-limit for a round otherwise the server ends up with just 2 guys left on it searching each other on whole Chernarus for hours...lol

Nah...i will try to think about a way to have a mission without respawns and to have fun with it at the same time...wish me luck! :D

Yeah, a timelimit or an admin is alway good to have. ;)

DM is not my cup of tea, but here are some suggestions if you wanna do some no respawn missions:

One team drives a convoy one team ambushes, and tries to kill something of importance.

One team try to rescue someone while the other team try to assasinate the same.

Then there is the usual Attack/Defend something/someone.

As long as you don't make an "wipe out the whole other team" mission or make the missions to advanced there shoulden't be any long waiting times.

You could also respawn dead people on an remote island and let them shoot each other there until the main mission ends.

Hope you manage to get something nice up. :)

[sparks50 0]

I find pvp no-respawn tactical missions the most exiting. Theres not as much tight packed "action" and shooting, but a LOT more tension and excitement. Unlike coop scenarios where the AI wouldn't even scare a rabbit.

[Cardhu 0]

There are many different styles in FPS play. Some like co-op play for its emphasis on teamwork with no explicit need for someone to "lose." We (the players in our home and team) definitely fall in this camp.

Anyone who says that AI is incapable of posing a challenge has clearly not experienced AI smartly using cover, suppressing fire, and flanking maneuvers in executing the Sixth Sense mod and hunter scripts.

Others like the challenge of PvP and Team Vs. Team play. Having played in tournament PvP team competition games ourselves, we understand the attraction of this style even if we do not share such a preference anymore.

Hopefully we can all clink our glasses together in toast when all is said and done and, whether we like "lite," lagers, pilsners, ales, or stouts, we can all agree that ArmA and beers are wonderful in variety without any put-downs of one preference or another.

[CyDoN 0]

I find pvp no-respawn tactical missions the most exiting. Theres not as much tight packed "action" and shooting, but a LOT more tension and excitement. Unlike coop scenarios where the AI wouldn't even scare a rabbit.

It doesnt really matter if you respawn or not it only matters if the game will actually have any mp at all. Finnaly no-respawn games like Counter-Strike etc have a timer limit of each round at 1:45 for 2 reasons:

1. Tactical emphasys: plant the bomb within 1:42 seconds (3 sec to plant it).

2. User friendly AFK time, when you die you are dead, you wait the round to finnish so you can play again so there has to be some fast round action in order to have something like that.

I made a few maps myself of this type and test with my clan put in order to complete the mission need at least 15 minutes the scenario of that missions were CSAR. Put a time of 20mins but the fact that if you die you have to wait the most 18 minutes (left 2 minutes for tactical positioning) makes it tiering for the "loosers". From what my ex-clan said there were generaly good great suspense, but still there was the death issue: one team has to rescure a PLAYER pilot and lead him to a helo in their guard post so he can leave and a SEAL team has to either destroy the helicopter (only with satchels) or assasinate the pilot, all this in the middle of the night under a storm that can "blind" the sniper of the SEALS.

MAP of that:

ISLA DE VICOTRIA extraction point and guard post of opfor

Pilots position with spawn radious of 1000m at Cabo Santa Lucia

Porto de Perolas some 150m in Blufr sniper team in boat

Mataredo Ground Blufor team insertion with parachute random at 300m

6 on 6

ESL C&H is ideal if you ask me AGIAN :D

Edited April 25, 2009 by CyDoN

[Crazyfox 0]

I made a few maps myself of this type and test with my clan put in order to complete the mission need at least 15 minutes the scenario of that missions were CSAR. Put a time of 20mins but the fact that if you die you have to wait the most 18 minutes (left 2 minutes for tactical positioning) makes it tiering for the "loosers". From what my ex-clan said there were generaly good great suspense, but still there was the death issue: one team has to rescure a PLAYER pilot and lead him to a helo in their guard post so he can leave and a SEAL team has to either destroy the helicopter (only with satchels) or assasinate the pilot, all this in the middle of the night under a storm that can "blind" the sniper of the SEALS.

Good post.

Are you saying that in your mission, if you are the first one to get shot you can have to wait up 15 minutes?

Splitting one side up in two squads, and advanced no respawn missions does in fact make longer waiting times.

I don't really have a problem waiting becouse i think there are more pro's than con's with no respawn.

One solution to this problem is to put the respawning point at a remote location and let the dead guys have a small firefight while waiting.

[CyDoN 0]

Good post.

Are you saying that in your mission, if you are the first one to get shot you can have to wait up 15 minutes?

Splitting one side up in two squads, and advanced no respawn missions does in fact make longer waiting times.

I don't really have a problem waiting becouse i think there are more pro's than con's with no respawn.

One solution to this problem is to put the respawning point at a remote location and let the dead guys have a small firefight while waiting.

Yes that what I am saying if you die you are dead, you have to wait a whole 15 minutes either one side wins or the timer to end so the result is the assasins team to win.

The nature of this type of missions does not allow respawn... It makes no sense to manage killing the sniper team and then let them to come back as the player who plays the pilot dies only once. I tried using the ressurect system but it was giving that suspense :)

On C&H maps of the ESL pack when you die y wait 30seconds and the you respawn at base or choose to to respawn at the mobile respawn vehicle.

[beita 10]

I've only made it half way through the thread here, but I'd like a response to this question, if possible.

What _exactly_ is clunky about the ArmA infantry animations?

This is an honest question, as I have yet to see a real answer to it. People who have an issue with it rarely explain it further. The most I've heard is that some animations take too long to finish (ie: going to binoculars from AT), or some animations are missing transitions.

Anyone care to explain further what they mean?

[sparks50 0]

Well first of all, you cannot abort animations, and this is a serious issue because many animations takes a long time before they are finished. Theres little weight and inertia in some of the animations.

You cannot move while reloading.

Weapons do not clip, neither are they pulled back when you turn to a wall. This results in difficulties in navigating indoors, because the player needs so much space around him to move.

The standing-crouch-prone position does often not relate well to what you are taking cover behind. Some covers may be too high for you to shoot from crouch, and exposing you far too much when standing etc.

Vietcong solved this with by making you rise just above the cover you are standing behind, when looking in the ironsight.

Its somehow illustrated in this image that I stole from dslyecxi.com.

http://dslyecxi.com/images/bestoftactical/vc_prone_is_peek.jpg

Thats my issues anyway. In general I think the true first person movement system is very good, and has a lot of nice restrictions and possibilities in it.

It only needs some more smoothening and detail.

Edited April 27, 2009 by sparks50

[CyDoN 0]

@beita

If you ask me, nothing really

[An-225 0]

As sparks explained, once an animation is started, you cannot abort it.

That means, if you shoot a man who is switching from rifle to AT just as he starts, you have to wait for him to crouch, mount his rifle and pull out the AT launcher (at least, I think it plays the full AT sequence without stopping at crouch).

Its really disrupting in CQC, and its difficult to tell whether or not they are dead.

Movement is realistic, but its quite sluggish and slow. Its very difficult to move with any sort of precision.

[whisper 0]

Not only that. It's also happening very often that your character take as much as 4 more steps AFTER you stopped pushing the forward key.

Transitions for micro movements (crouch/stand up) are imho a bit too long

Same for direction change transitions (very problematic when reaching cover)

Like said, when turning around indoor, your gun will get stuck everywhere, preventing you from moving correctly.

Too many glitches for people who also like the shooting aspect of a FPS

[Cardhu 0]

It's really annoying to have a new threat pop up right in the middle of reloading or switching weapons. The player is completely helpless with no way to abort.

Equally annoying is the "switch to pistol or binoculars" dance without ever choosing either.

The whole reloading of an AT4 (M136) animation is completely bogus. The AT4 tubes are single shot disposable, not reloadable like a bazooka. That animation is really annoying - especially getting shot while in the reload animation for a weapon that in reality is simply a matter of throwing away an empty tube and grabbing a new one.

Another animation that is sadly lacking is the complete absence of the ability to duck behind cover, pop up and fire off a few rounds, and then duck back down easily. The PS3 game "Uncharted - Drake's Fortune" does this very well with a simple key combination. Every FPS game should have this ability.

However, this mini-thread about animations seems off topic. This topic has to do with the needs and wants of the part of our ArmA community who like PvP play.

I suggest moving animation comments and criticisms of ArmA with suggestions for fixes in ArmA2 to this topic:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=72353

or this topic:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=69535

[TCEd 0]

My post is on topic, referring to PvP missions/maps.

As an avid BF2/PR player & a Arma Player, you can say I have my cake and eat it too, I enjoy the best of both worlds and yes these games are different, have different players with different ideas of how & why they play the games they play.

But I do agree that PvP in ARMA2 is going to be awesome. There are already loads of communities for Arma that do this & have been doing it for some time, plus loads of missions that can be downloaded for PvP play. All of these gaming communities and many more that will spring up will be playing PvP and/or Co-op games in ARMA2.

I currently serve as a TA on AGW, which is a PvP Arma/ARMA2 Tournament community. We use custom missions that can be Co-op or PvP. They are designed for tournament style play in mind, which does have many similar characteristics of BF2/PR style of play.

Their called AAS (Assault And Secure). You must attack a given location, clear it out & then move to the next objective. This of course fits into the tournament frame work & our guys enjoy playing it. Going up against a real person is more demanding & exciting, providing the gamer with a much higher rush and skill performance needed. That's not to say that Co-op play is not fun or that it's not challenging, it is, just trying to state the difference and why these types of gamers like PvP.

The news that Arma content can be ported over to ARMA2 is very encouraging as all of the work that the modding community for Arma has done over the past 3 years, will work with the game, so nothing is lost.