Zeitgeist: Addendum

[Spokesperson 0]

Zeitgeist: Addendum

Very good movie. They have the same conclusions as marxism has, but they've got there independently.

They describe a future communist society, at the same time they call China communist. But I guess it's normal for americans to not know definitions of words.

[MehMan 0]

I predict crap, like the first one.

EDIT: although the first few minutes do seem like the last few of the first one, which was a really awsome direction.

[SHWiiNG 0]

didnt like it as much as the first one, it was good, but i didnt like how they wanted you to join their Activist group (or whatever they called it)

Its funny how the main conclusion was that the only Free human existance is a communist approach. And this is frowned apon today.

Heh. But it is a very interesting documentary

[TFatseas 0]

Link

Here is the first one debunked, and they are adding the second one.

[Spokesperson 0]

Link

Here is the first one debunked, and they are adding the second one.

That post shows that you're "conditioned" to think the movie is bad, false. You link to a page where you hope there'll be a debunking article soon. You assume there's something to debunk, when there actually are no arguments yet.

Of course there will be hundreds of "debunk" pages soon, as with all other popular documentaries, because this movie is provocative and angers all religious, conservative and liberal fools.

Can you really "debunk" the existence of classes or oppressors? Are there no owners, and no people who work for them? That's what slave owners like to say.

If I hadn't mentioned communism (avatar, text, past posts etc) in the first place comments would've been more positive, but as you probably are representative for the standard product of the society you live in you are conditioned to think that marxism, communism etc are bad and dismiss everything that has to do with it.

People who watch the movie without hearing the word communism first has a different opinion. I made this experiment on another forum, where I didn't mention communism or anything like it.

[Sennacherib 0]

Quote[/b] ]If I hadn't mentioned communism (avatar, text, past posts etc) in the first place comments would've been more positive, but as you probably are representative for the standard product of the society you live in you are conditioned to think that marxism, communism etc are bad and dismiss everything that has to do with it.

some ideas in the communism-marxism were good, but humans are not enough evolved to use them. instead, the humans prefer cupidity, vanity, power, money and so on.

but some other ideas are totally impossible to use. because the ideas of humans are like us imperfect.

a just balance would be better than politic integrism. ideas are not important; only people are important. You can't make a society only with ideas (communism or capitalism).

btw; thx for the link

[lwlooz 0]

Hello there,

Seriously Spokesperson, people hear/see "The financial world is falling apart, the bankers fucked it all up" constantly on all media outlets now

and the best you can come up with to pitch socialism is some American Teen Angst? I am dissappointed.

If you want me to believe I have to hand power over to people with a messiah-complex like you who will just end up to oppress me

as a violent ruthless ruling class you will have to come up with better arguments.

If all you wanted to do is troll with this link again, then I apologize , for that the link works. (I admit I only watched the first half, but it looked as crap as the first Zeitgeist which I had to suffer through..)

[Spokesperson 0]

There are a few different kinds of socialism. One is utopian and one is marxist. Utopian socialism requires that people have good morals, that they are "perfect" etc. Marxist socialism has no such assumptions.

You're correct about ideas. That's also a difference between utopian socialism and marxist socialism. Utopians believe in idealism and ideas, marxists believe in the historical and dialectical materialism.

Most readers here learned a lot at school, and know exactly what those words mean...

Quote[/b] ]If you want me to believe I have to hand power over to people with a messiah-complex like you who will just end up to oppress me

as a violent ruthless ruling class you will have to come up with better arguments.

I agree with Zeitgeist on how a future society should look like. I don't see how any "messiah-complex" people "like me" make up a ruling class there. If you had seen the whole film, maybe you had understood.

The only thing I don't like about Zeitgeist is the means of reaching this communist society. I also don't think they made a complete analysis of society. But ok, it's a movie, with a time limit. Marx has most things covered in a few thousand pages though.

[Panda-PL- 0]

I watched first two minutes. There was no text or anything, just effects and music.

I was waiting... waiting... waiting...

Ok, click.

If you want to waste my time try to be entertaining.

I watched some zeitgeist1 debunking and it was much better: arguments, sources, proofs. I like people who respect my time (and don't offend viewr's intellect by making up myths).

[SHWiiNG 0]

So... you didnt watch it just because it didnt start like your average movie?

your time 'constraints' make it seem like you plan your life on a needle point.

[Panda-PL- 0]

So... you didnt watch it just because it didnt start like your average movie?

your time 'constraints' make it seem like you plan your life on a needle point.

I watched part one, so I kinda realised after 2 minutes of addednum I don't really need to watch it. It's not entertining and not educating, so why? Just so I can discuss it with Spokesperson? I don't see any other purpose.

Part one was entertining because I didn't know the myths. It was also educational in a way because I googled the stuff.

If it comes down to marxism I have heard it all, it's rather short and simple.

[Baff1 0]

I got two thrids of the way through the original Zeitgeist before I had to turn it off.

The bloke is an excellent communicator. Unfortunately he has a very flawed understanding of economics. His whole philosophy/analysis was based on an incorrrect premise.

He made it right at the beginning, so the longer I watched the wronger it got. One incorrect understanding logically led to the next incorrect understanding, which logically led to the next incorrect assessment.

All massively logical. All brilliantly explained. All wrong.

He doesn't know the basics.

Given the current economic conditions I'm almost tempted to watch his next installment and see him laughing to himself as all that he loathes is in trouble.

But like the above poster, ultimately it's a waste of time.

I think the most important lessons to be learnt from Zeitgeist is the art of communicating your idea's.

The skill he has in presenting them and breaking them down into absorbable pieces at an absorbable rate.

This is his genius. Unlike the idea's he seeks to communicate, which are just tragically wrong.

It's like a 50 line maths calculation with the error in line 3.

No matter how skillfully, logically and accurately it's been calculted in line 4 line 5 line 6 line 7 ..line 50, it will turn out to be wrong. It was wrong from line 3 onwards. Every line was from that point on.

Perfectly logical, intuatively the naturally progressing from the last point, only wrong.

There are no prizes for getting 49/50 lines of the calculations correct. 49 out of the 50 things Zeitgeist says are logical evalutions, but.....

It still gives you the wrong outcome.

Start with the basics, if you want to find out about economics, conspiracy theorists or political activists are not the best place to learn.

Stodgy, boring economics teachers. Work experience.

Not, exciting animated psuedo economic political ideology.

Nothing "world changing".

Just the boring run of the mill basic dull stuff.

[rstratton 0]

whether the video is right or wrong, there is still something seriously FUCKED UP with this world we live in.

[Journeyman 0]

whether the video is right or wrong, there is still something seriously FUCKED UP with this world we live in.

Perfectly put!

I've not watched this video and don't intend to either. It sounds to me like opinionated gabble! Not that there is anything wrong with that, but someone’s opinion on social ethics is but an opinion in the same way as someone’s opinion in the flawless capitalist society that we are all now about to get seriously screwed up in!

The answer probably lies somewhere in-between and I doubt that will ever happen!

[Spokesperson 0]

So what's wrong Baff? If I remember correct, you have a very dopey view of economics.

[SHWiiNG 0]

So what's wrong Baff? If I remember correct, you have a very dopey view of economics.

careful with your words there fella, you never know when a mod will be lurking around here and especially with the number of warning lights you have.. Just saying.

Unless it was not intended to be insulting, i apologise.

[MehMan 0]

So what's wrong Baff? If I remember correct, you have a very dopey view of economics.

That's according to you and your views on society and economics.

[Journeyman 0]

So what's wrong Baff? If I remember correct, you have a very dopey view of economics.

If I was Baff1 I think I would refrain from replying to such a belittling and shit-stirring comment!

When Baff1 makes a post it might not appeal to everyone’s ideologies, but at least he gives his reasoning’s.

You on the other hand are just an annoying little flame baiter!  

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imho Spokesperson get some extras for his praise of an ideal communist society in forums.

[soul_assassin 1750]

So what's wrong Baff? If I remember correct, you have a very dopey view of economics.

If I was Baff1 I think I would refrain from replying to such a belittling and shit-stirring comment!

When Baff1 makes a post it might not appeal to everyone’s ideologies, but at least he gives his reasoning’s.

You on the other hand are just an annoying little flame baiter!  

hardly any reasoning or explanation or elaborations in Baff1's post. Just a rant about how its wrong and something about math problems. But what is it that Zeitgeist got wrong?

If you re-read spokeperson's post you will see he's asking the same thing.

[W0lle 1050]

We have a related thread to this already you can use.

There is no need to start new ones for everything you think could fit to spread your communism stuff.

The main purpose of these forums is not to discuss political stuff, though we allow it in this forum (to a certain extent) but it's no good idea to abuse this - something Spokesperson actually is doing.

Closing.