Micro AI on 2nd CPU ?

[jakerod 254]

You used a f*ckin road as an example?!? Are you serious? That makes no sense. Not at all. If you have a 32 bit processor. or even a dual core (intel, which isnt actually a 64bit at all) it still wont compare to the performance of a 64bit. At all. I mean, that is pretty obvious. Not, A road made for fast cars??? cause any car can drive on a road. Unfortunately, correct me if Im wrong, but computers arent like cars. I may be wrong though. Cause im pretty sure a windows 95 era (maybe pushing 32 bit.) "car" cannot drive on the same "road" as a windows vista era (over clocking 64bit) "car". I might be wrong...  

Probably not the best example but it does work. The point of the example is this:

ArmA II works for both Dual and Quadcore processors.

If you have a Dualcore Processor it will work.

If you have a Quadcore processor it will work.

Therefore it will work on both types of processors.

If you have a Quadcore it will probably work better. It is dumb and selfish to say that they should remove features that will work better on a quadcore just because you have a dualcore and choose not to buy a quadcore. I understand that maybe money is tight and you can't afford one right now but:

A.) 99% of the time there is some way to save money to buy something assuming you have a job.

&

B.) It will still work on your computer.

[Dark SudoNix 1]

i dont think you understand what im saying. All i am saying is, is that if you tweak the game to make it run more efficiently on a 64 bit quad core, then how is it even physically possible for it to run as good on a 32bit or dual?

[jakerod 254]

i dont think you understand what im saying. All i am saying is, is that if you tweak the game to make it run more efficiently on a 64 bit quad core, then how is it even physically possible for it to run as good on a 32bit or dual?

How often do you program things like video games and the way they interact with the processor?

If your answer is:

Everyday: You know more than me

Sometimes: You know more than me

Rarely: You probably don't understand how it is possible

Never: You almost definitly have no clue how it could be possible or impossible and might want to look into it more. I'm the type of person who leans more towards anything is possible and that if I can trust anyone to find a way to do it it is BIS.

Im betting it is probably somewhere near the Never or Rarely category and that you probably don't know much about it since you said you were military. I could be wrong though. Im not trying to say you're stupid or anything like that if it comes off that way. I am sure you're a smart person and probably a good soldier too but just that you may not understand how those kinds of things work if you have never done them and that criticizing them about it (which you seemed to do in your original post here) doesn't help. I hope that someone gives a bit more of a concrete answer than this though.

Your original question was why are they making it more for quadcore than dualcore and that was the question I was originally trying to answer. I am sorry if I did not convey that very well.

[Dark SudoNix 1]

First of all. I thoroughly understand how Processors work in reguards to programs and I deff. Am not a "soldier". Yes, I am military. But, I DO understand How those things work. You are right about one thing though, I do not program games. And all I said was, if a game is directed towards running more efficiently on a 64bit platform, then it will not work as efficiently on a 32bit platform. Even if you have one of the intel dual cores, it is still not a true 64bit. even though it is dual 32bit. and overclocking voids warranty for most companies and can cause catostrophic internal failures due to over heating. but, I am also speaking from using a laptop. not a desktop. so let me narrow this down even more. The average new era laptop processor probably only pushes 2.0 - 2.4Ghz. so now even a pretty basic 64bit Quad core processor is pushing close to 3.0Ghz. - OR MORE. Now, with that being said, a quad core 64bit processor that can also manage micro ai is going to give that person a different gaming experience than the person running the average 2.0Ghz centrino duo core,as in Myself. but I do have dual Nvidia 8600 Gts. And corsair 4GB Ram. So I dunno. Im not trying to argue or imply anything negative. When i first stated that I was actually stating a "hypothesis" sort-of speak. And expecting a good explanation. Not, an arguement. and not an example involviong cars and roads.

[froggyluv 2130]

but, I am also speaking from using a laptop. not a desktop.

Unless you have a high-end end gaming laptop, you can't expect to have the exact 'gaming experience' as a desktop for upcoming games. I just got off my girlfriend's sucky laptop which was far worse than yours and was fortunate enough to be able to build a PC more suitable for higher-end gaming for pretty cheap. It's certainly your right to choose not to upgrade but this the tech business and sooner or later we all have to upgrade. Who knows, maybe your Lap will handle Arma 2 fine.

[jakerod 254]

First of all. I thoroughly understand how Processors work in reguards to programs and I deff. Am not a "soldier". Yes, I am military. But, I DO understand How those things work. You are right about one thing though, I do not program games. And all I said was, if a game is directed towards running more efficiently on a 64bit platform, then it will not work as efficiently on a 32bit platform. Even if you have one of the intel dual cores, it is still not a true 64bit. even though it is dual 32bit. and overclocking voids warranty for most companies and can cause catostrophic internal failures due to over heating. but, I am also speaking from using a laptop. not a desktop. so let me narrow this down even more. The average new era laptop processor probably only pushes 2.0 - 2.4Ghz.  so now even a pretty basic 64bit Quad core processor is pushing close to 3.0Ghz. - OR MORE. Now, with that being said, a quad core 64bit processor that can also manage micro ai is going to give that person a different gaming experience than the person running the average 2.0Ghz centrino duo core,as in Myself. but I do have dual Nvidia 8600 Gts. And corsair 4GB Ram. So I dunno. Im not trying to argue or imply anything negative. When i first stated that I was actually stating a "hypothesis" sort-of speak. And expecting a good explanation. Not, an arguement. and not an example involviong cars and roads.

Alright well apparently I don't know what the hell I am talking about then.

I would imagine though that Micro AI would probably be one of the more important features. It would probably be one of the last things to be kicked to the back of the line if processor power was insufficient.

Anyway I am going to be quiet now. Sorry for the crappy example too I misunderstood something I guess.

[fasad 1]

i dont think you understand what im saying. All i am saying is, is that if you tweak the game to make it run more efficiently on a 64 bit quad core, then how is it even physically possible for it to run as good on a 32bit or dual?

I'm quite sure the Intel Core 2 Duo is two 64 bit cores, and the Intel Core 2 Quad is four 64 bit cores. There is no difference between them in ability to run either 32 bit or 64 bit code.

A "true 64" bit processor would need to emulate 32 bit mode, while (all) the Core 2's X86-64, which can natively run 32 bit code. In order to make use of a 64 bit processor, you need to be using 64 bit software on a 64 bit OS anyway.

[HamishUK 0]

Currently I can provide only an estimation, for final words you still have to wait for later:

Our intention is to scale at least to some extent to quad cores (this means with quad cores you should have either better performance in some scenes than in dual cores). Therefore the game should run better on Quad Core compared to Dual Core assuming they both run at the same frequency.

That said, you can get higher frequency Dual Core for the same money as you could get Quad Core. My prediction is 3.3 GHz Dual Core will most likely run the game better than 2.5 GHz Quad Core, while both will cost you approximately the same.

One thing to note: different  scenarios / workloads may show different performance patterns - e.g. it is possible missions with huge numbers of units will runner better on 2.5 GHz Quad Core than 3.3 GHz Dual Core.

Disclaimer: this is only a prediction and things can still change before the game is released.

Thanks Suma.

Apples and Oranges then.

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

Does anyone still use apples?

[EricM 0]

Stop this nonsense... Just switch to 6 cores...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13....1_3-0-5

[Väinämöinen 0]

Noooo! Wait! Hold your horses! Why get 6 when there will be 8?

Nehalem will launch with an eight core product in 2008, however each core will have two threads, making a total of 16 threads on a single CPU package.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09/18/otellini_unveils_nehalem/1

Core#1: Physics

Core#2: Weather, night/day effects

Core#3: Res/Civ AI

Core#4: West AI

Core#5: East AI

Core#6: Sounds to SPU

Core#7: Graphics to GPU

Core#8: Damn, hmm...Other misc crap!

[madrussian 347]

OK, now I am starting to get excited!

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

I'm really curious how ArmA2 will perform on my 2x2@3Ghz.

These cpu's are capable of running 4x4 (8 cores), except no one has made a motherboard for the public consumer, yet.

Either way, it will be fun testing a server and the game running together. ArmA does great for me, so utilizing 2-4 cores should be sweet.

[Dark SudoNix 1]

ok, i think i got it. i was just thinking on the lines of... "if you had a scale, you put more weight on one side, then that side is going to lean more." you know, I was thinking the developers would want to even it out as much as possible... (about the usage of processors for the game)

Intel® Core2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz

Corsair DDR2 4.00GB @ 800mhz

Dual NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT

does anyone know if you can replace the hard drive in a laptop... I mean, I want to put a 7200 in mine but, I dont want to f*ck it up. Ill probably have to install new drivers huh? is it possible though?

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

If you want to copy the info you currently have, and no experience in laptops, you should take it to a reputable co.

[shinRaiden 0]

Laptop upgrades in order of easiness:

* Memory

* Hard drive - Provided you can either use the original as a second internal or you have a external enclosure, and you have all the drivers pre-downloaded and on hand. You also don't want to change the hard drive model too much, to avoid thermal problems.

* CPU - Not much more difficult than desktops, but you have to be extra cautious, and will likely void your warranty.

* Video - Sourcing replacement MXM-variant cards can be very difficult and expensive, and certain to void your warranty. The Laptop's likely only designed to thermally handle what you had in it, so replace, don't upgrade the video card.

[gL33k 0]

Noooo! Wait! Hold your horses! Why get 6 when there will be 8?

Nehalem will launch with an eight core product in 2008, however each core will have two threads, making a total of 16 threads on a single CPU package.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09/18/otellini_unveils_nehalem/1

Core#1: Physics

Core#2: Weather, night/day effects

Core#3: Res/Civ AI

Core#4: West AI

Core#5: East AI

Core#6: Sounds to SPU

Core#7: Graphics to GPU

Core#8: Damn, hmm...Other misc crap!

are you joking ? :O

i want 4 thread dedicated to rendering

[NeMeSiS 11]

Noooo! Wait! Hold your horses! Why get 6 when there will be 8?

Nehalem will launch with an eight core product in 2008, however each core will have two threads, making a total of 16 threads on a single CPU package.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09/18/otellini_unveils_nehalem/1

Core#1: Physics

Core#2: Weather, night/day effects

Core#3: Res/Civ AI

Core#4: West AI

Core#5: East AI

Core#6: Sounds to SPU

Core#7: Graphics to GPU

Core#8: Damn, hmm...Other misc crap!

are you joking ? :O

i want 4 thread dedicated to rendering  

Who cares about graphics when you can have more and better AI?

[gL33k 0]

i hate stuttering. it make game unlpayable. in such situation , i let my gaming rig, and plug my godin in my amp .

[Dark SudoNix 1]

Laptop upgrades in order of easiness:

* Memory

* Hard drive - Provided you can either use the original as a second internal or you have a external enclosure, and you have all the drivers pre-downloaded and on hand. You also don't want to change the hard drive model too much, to avoid thermal problems.

* CPU - Not much more difficult than desktops, but you have to be extra cautious, and will likely void your warranty.

* Video - Sourcing replacement MXM-variant cards can be very difficult and expensive, and certain to void your warranty. The Laptop's likely only designed to thermally handle what you had in it, so replace, don't upgrade the video card.

wow i had no idea you could change that out... I thought all that was integrated onto your motherboard (laptops only) and there was no way to replace anything except memory... and this laptop has 5 newer models... all the same size just a lil bit better modifications. Im sure the shell has enough ventilation for some higher powered stuff... i dunno though... Im going to look into that. thanks by the way and also not to get off topic... does anyone know or has heard of a laptop that is quad core? And the only reason i am stuck on this whole laptop thing is because they are more practical for me as I am constantly on the move... and need something portable.

[PuFu 4591]

That is gonna be as expensive as you can get. For that money you can get a really nice PC (quad, or wait for 6 or 8 cores cpus) and drag it after you.

There is already the QX9300 mobile processor out there, which is the first mobile quad core released. Only Asus has announced his future laptop (you can already find it in online stores for about 4500$ )

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9761814-7.html

http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=12427

Also, some guys over extreme notebooks stuck a PC q6600 into a laptop case. It weights the same as a PC though (more or less)

http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/index.p....16_inch

[Yoma 0]

I just keep wondering how they are going to achieve the multicore stuff without generating more ingame weirdnesses.

How will they decently sync micro ai with macro ai?

Splitting more stuff on different cores might seem an easy task if you know nothing about programming, but it's very hard in real life.

Hats off to the developers if they truely succeed in this multicore story.

[gL33k 0]

I just keep wondering how they are going to achieve the multicore stuff without generating more ingame weirdnesses.

How will they decently sync micro ai with macro ai?

Splitting more stuff on different cores might seem an easy task if you know nothing about programming, but it's very hard in real life.

Hats off to the developers if they truely succeed in this multicore story.

i still wonder wich part of game is the more laggish. AI routine, or rendering ?

[sniper pilot 36]

I just keep wondering how they are going to achieve the multicore stuff without generating more ingame weirdnesses.

How will they decently sync micro ai with macro ai?

Splitting more stuff on different cores might seem an easy task if you know nothing about programming, but it's very hard in real life.

Hats off to the developers if they truely succeed in this multicore story.

i still wonder wich part of game is the more laggish. AI routine, or rendering ?

In ArmA at times it seems like AI...

[Alex72 1]

Yep i would agree to AI. I think...

When i use ECS MOD with all off except AI enhancement my computer cipples down hard. Without it with same amount of AI it runs flawless. So i think AI when made much "smarter" they take a lot of cpu.

And hopefully BIS manage to split things up between the cores. It takes programming for that, not just buy a multicore and yihaa.