Built in Revives in ArmA 2!?

[-Variable- 0]

Marek spanel in an interview (minute 1:24) "...so in ArmA 2 it's possible to revive the character within a certain while...".

Is that for real!? will the game just turned out to be unrealistic, lacking the fear of death that made the gameplay experience in Operation Flashpoint so immersed? Can we receive an official confirmation on this? (Please say this is not true...)

[mr.g-c 6]

I bet this will be switchable, so when making own mission you can disable it.

However i use revive scripts for a lot of coops i made for LANs and its great!

[-Variable- 0]

I bet this will be switchable, so when making own mission you can disable it.

However i use revive scripts for a lot of coops i made for LANs and its great!  

Well, this will not help saving the single player experience if it will be destroyed by revives.

[Praelium 0]

I'd wait until it's explained in more detail before getting worried.

[.kju 3245]

Yeah. It depends on the implementation.

norrins revive script is the best things for proper team play in

coop play. So way to go BI

[madrussian 347]

First of all, the fact that BIS is looking to use revive in the campaign tells me that they are aiming for a coop campaign.  If this is the case then I’ll be jumping for joy, along with the vast majority of you out there who are into these types of games!

I make this revive->coop campaign conjecture from a design perspective.  Unlimited revive (as opposed to limited revive) is a coop mission designers crutch, if their target is accessibility.  (Gears of War anyone?)  It certainly makes things easy for them.  For example, with unlimited revive, if at least one squadmate is alive, the mission can continue.  If all squadmates are killed, then the mission ends.  Convenient, no?  

But this is a very lazy way to go about it imo.  

Not to mention that for all the benefits of a revive system, lets face it, revive is quite unrealistic.  As in, “Oh look, my buddy just got shot… Oh well.  Here, I’ll jab him with this needle.  There, he’s back up and at it, right as rain!â€

Imo, there are much betters ways to handle death in a coop campaign.  For example, what is wrong offering up replacement soldiers between missions or perhaps periodically throughout certian missions?  For that matter, why do we need to replay the current mission at all (tedious) if we all die?  We’re in the middle of a war, right?  Shouldn’t the conflict go on?  We all just died in blaze of glory…  Why not track the results of that mission (where we all succumb) and let we the players continue, taking over as other soldiers who continue the fight nearby in a new mission which occurs, in part, based on our previous brave and posthumous actions?  Now, keep the fear of death alive with appropriate consequences, of course, but do we really ever need to replay static missions?  I think not!  

Much more immersive that way I think (my opinions of course).  For any games coming out anytime soon, I’ll keep my fingers crossed, and my expectations low. (i.e. Fewer disappointments that way)

In the mean time, if there is to be revive in ArmA2, please allow us maximum latitude to configure it as we see fit, including a “limited†option (see below) and the ability to turn it on or off, in multiplayer, and in single player as well.

In terms of revive options, I feel that at a minimum, we need the ability to adjust the following:

1. Whether a revive kit (inventory item) is required and expended per revive.

2. Number of times a player may be revived per mission.

3. Number of times a player may revive another per mission.

I’m anxious to see what BIS comes up with.  Of all possibilities, please, please for the love of god, avoid an imposed, hard-coded, and worst of all unlimited revive.  

[PuFu 4600]

It all depends on how badly injured you are as well.

You could say that on the field of battles, most of the shots are not deadly (mind that nowadays soldiers do use armored vest) unless vital organs are touched by the bullet. So instead of ppl dieing, they could be severely wounded (same to what norrin revive script does after all) so a revive in fact would be in fact a healing (in the world of games i find healing severely wounds on the field acceptable)...

It all depends on implementation, and on how can the players change this during their gameplay (difficulty settings)

[Maddmatt 1]

I just hope that this revive system is done well, and not some cheap crap like something from an arcade style game.

Something that simulates bleeding, passing out, and dragging wounded. Similar to what SLX does maybe.

It certainly shouldn't be possible to revive anyone who has been hit in the face by a rifle launched grenade!

So please do a semi-realistic system, not some magical 'revive' action when you go up to someone and they magically get up

Maybe require a medic or field hospital to patch them up, and other soldiers can drag the wounded to them.

As well as bandages to stop bleeding, like in some OFP/ArmA mods that anyone can carry to patch up themselves or fellow soldiers until they get to a medic.

[Hawke 0]

If done the wrong way that can really ruin it, although I must say that after playing ArmA I have not really any hopes for Arma II. I hope BIS surprises me.

IMO revive actually can support coop teamplay style, IF DONE RIGHT. There are many things to consider when creating such a feature, eg. not everybody can revive fallen companions but only medics with adequate capabilities and equipment, NO unlimited revive and that casualties can only be revived within a certain time frame. Its a bit unrealistic when when bodies are left to rot for an hour and then are revived . Also there should be put some thought into the way they are revived. Just going near them and they are back alive is not really satisfying...

But honestly I'd rather have them spend there time on things that are really important so that something like ArmA never happens again to mankind... I played OFP and it was fun...without revive. Any mapmaker that wants it can add it. The "BIS builds the engine, community builds the rest" kinda thing that was discussed here a million times. But when looking at ArmA i have to agree!

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Cadet/Veteran maybe?

[WARFIGHTER989 0]

Marek spanel in an interview (minute 1:24) "...so in ArmA 2 it's possible to revive the character within a certain while...".

Is that for real!? will the game just turned out to be unrealistic, lacking the fear of death that made the gameplay experience in Operation Flashpoint so immersed? Can we receive an official confirmation on this? (Please say this is not true...)

Well it may not be realistic but maybe they could "Revive" you once and then you're gone for good. Let's say you're in an urban situation, tangos are down the road and team 1 provides suppressing fire for team 2 to flank. One of their men is hit and smoke grenades are popped to drag him behind cover to save him.

[whisper 0]

This reminds me of the cry of falling sky when we heard about "team switching" and the ability to switch player mid-game. The OFP World was ending and BI was killing their game.

Now that we are playing it, did it really kill the thing? Me not think so....

[The_Captain 0]

I'm hoping this is either changeable with cadet/veteran, or at least configurable by the mission maker. It sounds like it will be good in many situations, but I want the ability to turn it off, either for specific missions or if I want to make gameplay harder.

[NeMeSiS 11]

This reminds me of the cry of falling sky when we heard about "team switching" and the ability to switch player mid-game. The OFP World was ending and BI was killing their game.

Now that we are playing it, did it really kill the thing? Me not think so....

That was easily ignorable, but when the ArmA2 missions are made with revives in mind they may become impossibly hard to do them without.

[Second 0]

Infact when thinking about OFP/ArmA community i think general impression i'm having is that things have turned more arcadey, and most of people are infact happy about it. JIP and respawn particularry has made this come thru.

When it comes to revives... Well, anything beats respawn, ecpacely when it has been watered down well:

-5-30 seconds waiting after death.

-large selection of kit available after the respawn in weapon boxes.

-insane difficulty level: hundrens or thousands of AI troops to be slaugthered by ~10 players, who respawns about 100-300 times during "mission".

-JIP allowing hours lasting frag fests, which reminds me more from my nightmares in childhood than good games/missions i've played. Those never ending nightmares which had this feeling that they will not end ever.

I've played few mission like this in ArmA... Infact: all MP missions (exept that coop in demo) which i have played were like this. Anything, be it heavenly intervention, revive, healing potions, healing white-magic (lets add black magic too), healing over time and all sorts of other feature beats what my experiences with ArmA mostly have been with respawn and JIP.

God i miss OFP coops... Each day more and more.

[-Variable- 0]

This reminds me of the cry of falling sky when we heard about "team switching" and the ability to switch player mid-game. The OFP World was ending and BI was killing their game.

Now that we are playing it, did it really kill the thing? Me not think so....

Call me old fashioned, but I think that YES, Revives and Team Switching have killed the game, and are part of the reason why ArmA campaign was plain bad.

When I play a war simulation I want to feel like I'm there, living and breathing the atmosphere, scared to die, want to complete the mission with my limited abilities as a human being. I also want to sympathize with my character that I'm playing. I can't feel immersed when I know I can switch to a different character or revive myself. So please, no team switching and no revives, even if it is after a while or after treated by a team mate (magician?). I have no objection to being knocked out from a non-lethal explosion and being dragged to safe cover and regaining conciseness. Any other thing will turn the game to a stupid arcade game.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello there,

in theory this sounds very nice , more options for the mission maker.

But if anyone of BIS should come across to read this (fat chance) , please , for heaven's sake , don't make it a hardcoded implementation like teamswitch.

A hardcoded keybind,dialog,notepad-tab AND several script commands for something that just could have been done equally well with just the "selectplayer" command

(A personal note: Failing to make that work in MP biggest design mistake in ArmA imo).

That is absolutely not needed.

I hope this is either a "trick" like people are using in ArmA just for the campaign or some script command that spawns either an AI or a human into a corpses type of thing , which would be very cool

[NoRailgunner 0]

In many (public) mp missions you don't see much military tactics. Thats the BFun generation you can't expect too much from them.

Would be nice to count how many winers will blame mission designer or BIS if they don't implement magic revives close to combat area.

Teamswitch in SP is optional you can play those missions like "what if I am..." team leader, pilot, tank commander etc

In the end its how good the story is and how the player become (main) part of it.

[whisper 0]

This reminds me of the cry of falling sky when we heard about "team switching" and the ability to switch player mid-game. The OFP World was ending and BI was killing their game.

Now that we are playing it, did it really kill the thing? Me not think so....

Call me old fashioned, but I think that YES, Revives and Team Switching have killed the game, and are part of the reason why ArmA campaign was plain bad.

When I play a war simulation I want to feel like I'm there, living and breathing the atmosphere, scared to die, want to complete the mission with my limited abilities as a human being. I also want to sympathize with my character that I'm playing. I can't feel immersed when I know I can switch to a different character or revive myself. So please, no team switching and no revives, even if it is after a while or after treated by a team mate (magician?). I have no objection to being knocked out from a non-lethal explosion and being dragged to safe cover and regaining conciseness. Any other thing will turn the game to a stupid arcade game.

Do like I did right away with ArmA : don't use teamswitch. I completely, completely fail to see how in hell it can have "killed the game" for you when it was made optionnal. It's not like it was forced down your throat.

The only time I ever used teamswitch feature in ArmA was when testing things in mission editor (and it comes up extremely handy) and making a MP compatible teamswitch system, "just for fun".

I don't remember using the feature once in campaign. In fact, I often completely forgot the option was there. It was not necessary, the way BI did it was just that, an option.

There is a SP mission from vanilla where the feature is heavily used, yes, and I think the mission is there just to demonstrate what can be done with Teamswitch, but as far as destroying the game, come on!

@lwlooz : FYI the "hardcoded" keybind can be disabled by the mission designer, making teamswitch completely impossible. This is not something unavoidable, far from it. You don't want it? Don't use it. Where is the issue?

[trunkz jr 0]

Are you kidding me?! This is awesome to have revives in a Co-op, even if it's not with shock paddles maybe just stop bleeding on a friend laying down on the ground and bandage would be great, anything to bring my friend or myself back into the battle.  

I don't think it's a great Idea for Multi tho, but for Co-op this will be awesome, and if someone doesn't like the idea then they can have the option disabled then.

[-Variable- 0]

Do like I did right away with ArmA : don't use teamswitch. I completely, completely fail to see how in hell it can have "killed the game" for you when it was made optionnal. It's not like it was forced down your throat.

Let me explain how Teamswitch was, actually, forced down all of our throats. A question- what is the name of the character/s you play in ArmA? can't remember, right? that's because there was no specific character to play as. And why was that? because the ability to switch between characters ingame was made possible. That rendered the whole campaign lifeless and faceless. There was no Gastaowskis, Troskas or Armstrongs to sympathize with (for those of you who didn't play OFP- the above were main characters in Operation Flashpoint campaigns)!

Teamswitch/Revive=No Simpathy=No Immersion=No Game Atmosphere=Bad Campaign

[whisper 0]

Way to mix up the bad scenario ideas with an option given to players.

The conclusion that the campaign was designed without main character because of teamswitch is your conclusion, and only yours.

[-Variable- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Way to mix up the bad scenario ideas with an option given to players.

The conclusion that the campaign was designed without main character because of teamswitch is your conclusion, and only yours.

Is there a point in having a main character if you can switch to a different soldier (leaving the main character to die)? I think you will agree that this will be plain bad story design.

[-Snafu- 78]

But it is not forced so it really depends on the mission designer.

[NoRailgunner 0]

In wich missions of campaign the player could switch to another character? How many campaign missions did you play?

Beside that its not bad story design if you only don't like this optional switch feature. You could play without switching if mission designer has done it right.

Open your eyes there is nothing that bad if player/mission designer have the choice - to use it or not.

Instead of magic revive it would be nice to have better medic stuff like "timed" bandages, sth like morphine, stretcher and proper drag animation.