Working VTOL?

[Juan 0]

Hi all.

Before anything, I did search, I did I did I did.

Right, is there any modifications to the VTOL of the Harrier?

All I want is to be able to take off vertical with it without the need of any runway; at list I'm missing something here...

Thanks.

[Kristian 47]

Hi!

The ArmA's Harrier already has the hoovering option after 1.08 update. (or was it 1.05?)

nvm.

the point is that you dont need separate addon, just to update your arma. and there isnt any other addons with VTOL if you wanted to know

[suma 8]

Real Av8 with full combat load is not able to perform Vertical Takeoff, only vertical landing.

Full combat load Av8 is a STOVL aircraft not a VTOL one.

Creating a VTOL aircraft in addon is possible, all you need to do is to set higher maximum speed so that the aircraft engines are able to take off.

[Juan 0]

I see.

The reason why I was thinking about this is because of this book I'm reading, "Hostile Skies" by David Morgan, about his experience as a RAF pilot and his experience in the Falklands war.

He mention about the Harriers they used to have in Germany during the cold war, hiding in barns, and other buildings, ready to use in case of an Invasion, but they probably had a nice flat and solid field to be able to do STOVL. Thinking about it, he mention about some of them using the roads as take off strips, this stils like a very good option though.

Thanks guys, this topic can be closed at list somebody have something to say.

Thanks.

[rubberkite 19]

Hi, Suma

OT:

One question About Vertical Speed of all Eli:

I never drive an Heli but for me vertical speed is too slow, and sometimes when mountain comes, the chopper need a lot of time to cross over em !?

IT:

For VTOL dynamics the trust can be rotated so push more trust mean more vertical lift.

OT:

What's happen when I increase chopper speed by config ?

I try to increase but I notice no changes.

IT:

What's happen when I increase plane speed ?

Did u plan in next patch to improve helicopter rudder and fly model ?

[Prydain 1]

I never drive an Heli but for me vertical speed is too slow, and sometimes when mountain comes, the chopper need a lot of time to cross over em !?

Just for confirmation for the less knowlaged of us; mountains don't actually move.

For Rubberkite: To remedy your problem, use the controls (usually a Joystick or a mouse and keyboard, be sure to check before trying to use either) and make adjustments to the direction of travel, making sure that the rudder is not the only control surface used and turn away from the mountains.

I know it might be hard when mountains are moving but, in ArmA, as far as I know... they don't move.

[rubberkite 19]

I'm not english guru but I think that metaphoric or what else is called exist also in english language.

For me the Vertical Climb speed of chopper is too slow...

with or without mountain moving.....

or some other lsd stuff (not the falseprophet addons I mean) like talking tree or smurf in sharani..

[max power 21]

Max climb speed for an apache is about 1000m per minute at sea level, moderate day (about the same as an average world war 2 fighter). I don't think that that is in a hover.. and with a full weapons load? Who knows...

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I never drive an Heli but for me vertical speed is too slow, and sometimes when mountain comes, the chopper need a lot of time to cross over em !?

Pull back on the stick while increasing the throttle/collective, you'll find you climb a lot faster if you point the nose up. Similarly push the stick forward to descend quickly.

Saying that, I'm a god-awful pilot in ArmA and tend to hit mountains regardless of how long it takes me notice them.

[Juan 0]

Yes, da12thMonkey is right. Soon, before you know, you'll master that. Try flying inside the canyons in south of Sahrani, that'll teach you after a million crashes and crashes and more crashes.

Quote[/b] ]I'm not english guru but I think that metaphoric or what else is called exist also in english language

I understand you from the very beguining

Cya all.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

@Suma

Quote[/b] ]Creating a VTOL aircraft in addon is possible, all you need to do is to set higher maximum speed so that the aircraft engines are able to take off.

And is this possible to make ai use vertical take-off/landing too ? I wonder how that V-22 in arma2 will be implemented ? with new simulation type ?

[mattxr 9]

@Suma

Quote[/b] ]Creating a VTOL aircraft in addon is possible, all you need to do is to set higher maximum speed so that the aircraft engines are able to take off.

And is this possible to make ai use vertical take-off/landing too ? I wonder how that V-22 in arma2 will be implemented ? with new simulation type ?

No way of doing it for the harrier ^^ just been experimenting, Even if you just make it off the ground and into the air vertically that means the thrust is higher and therefor cant land vertically as the thrust will be more powerful and push you up again. Put i did take off from a standstill by pressing Q and Z to keep the nozzle's vertical

You would need multiple engine config classses with Thrust Power Take off and Thrust Power Landing. and have them as Q and Z in the harrier.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

@Suma

Quote[/b] ]Creating a VTOL aircraft in addon is possible, all you need to do is to set higher maximum speed so that the aircraft engines are able to take off.

And is this possible to make ai use vertical take-off/landing too ? I wonder how that V-22 in arma2 will be implemented ? with new simulation type ?

No way of doing it for the harrier ^^ just been experimenting, Even if you just make it off the ground and into the air vertically that means the thrust is higher and therefor cant land vertically as the thrust will be more powerful and push you up again. Put i did take off from a standstill by pressing Q and Z to keep the nozzle's vertical

You would need multiple engine config classses with Thrust Power Take off and Thrust Power Landing. and have them as Q and Z in the harrier.

Just needs a config tweak and you can take off vertically.  Change the lift values in the envelope command and you are laughing.  Our Harrier GR7 can take off vertically with the BIS VTOL.

The default BIS VTOL allows you to take off in 20-50m anyway. Just tunr on AutoHover, slow forward speed about 35-50kph and keep the stick slightly back. YOu'll do a nice slow STOL take off.

As for the V-22, this solution wouldn’t work to well.  The Helicopter config is far easier to manage.

[suma 8]

And is this possible to make ai use vertical take-off/landing too ? I wonder how that V-22 in arma2 will be implemented ? with new simulation type ?

For V-22 we had to do quite a lot of changes for ArmA 2, esp. in the area of controls, and some in the simulation as well. The changes are too extensive therefore we cannot bring them to ArmA 1, therefore if you really need to do this, I am afraid you are left with config tweaks and perhaps scripting hacks.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

@Suma

V-22 would work almost perfectly with helicopter config in arma, but for player controls are changed since ofp - looks like there's no way to tilt main rotor nt the whole body (in ofp rotor was tilted first - then body). Will it be changed in 1.12 ?

[max power 21]

@Suma

V-22 would work almost perfectly with helicopter config in arma, but for player controls are changed since ofp - looks like there's no way to tilt main rotor nt the whole body (in ofp rotor was tilted first - then body). Will it be changed in 1.12 ?

Not sure what you're talking about, but have you seen gnat's proof of concept v-22? It looked like it was working properly.

[4 IN 1 0]

@Suma

V-22 would work almost perfectly with helicopter config in arma, but for player controls are changed since ofp - looks like there's no way to tilt main rotor nt the whole body (in ofp rotor was tilted first - then body). Will it be changed in 1.12 ?

Not sure what you're talking about, but have you seen gnat's proof of concept v-22?  It looked like it was working properly.

the down side would be that the aircarft still works more like a chopper then a actural plane class

i think what suma trying to say is that they can now make a mixed config aircraft that works both way, while Astanid is talking about another thing

[[aps]gnat 28]

Hmmmm ... sort of surprised so many changes required for the ArmA2 and the V-22.

I'm no rocket scientist and it didn't take me much to get a very nice V-22 simulation without hacks or scripts.

Really, the only things that probaby differ from my ArmA V-22 and the real or fully simulated V-22;

- Top Speed. While I get 400, its hard to get that last 100

- Pitch-up in full-forward "plane" operation. It does climb, but more slowly like a chopper, less like an fixed wing plane.

[suma 8]

We did not want to base V22 on helicopter flight model, as this would make high speed simulation very clumsy. What we did was to extend the airplane VTOL model to allow for full VTOL (including descend/climb control while in hover), forced vectoring when grounded, and AI VTOL capabilities.

I am sure community is able to provide satisfactory results for ArmA 1 with scripting, and therefore will not miss those features in ArmA 1 that much, but I think once you will experience the ArmA 2 implementation, you will not want to go back any more.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Yep, I'm sure with each step forward we wont be going back ... except some of those die-hard OFP chopper pilots

Thanks for the explanation Suma

[4 IN 1 0]

no kidding Gnat

so....erm......how is your V22 for ARMA doing?

[rubberkite 19]

We did not want to base V22 on helicopter flight model, as this would make high speed simulation very clumsy. What we did was to extend the airplane VTOL model to allow for full VTOL (including descend/climb control while in hover), forced vectoring when grounded, and AI VTOL capabilities.

I am sure community is able to provide satisfactory results for ArmA 1 with scripting, and therefore will not miss those features in ArmA 1 that much, but I think once you will experience the ArmA 2 implementation, you will not want to go back any more.

I hope that you've buyed also a PC with Nvdia card.... so ArmA 2 will work fine with 8800 9800 and above...

and of course also with some alt-tab when we need to switch.

[max power 21]

@Suma

V-22 would work almost perfectly with helicopter config in arma, but for player controls are changed since ofp - looks like there's no way to tilt main rotor nt the whole body (in ofp rotor was tilted first - then body). Will it be changed in 1.12 ?

Not sure what you're talking about, but have you seen gnat's proof of concept v-22? It looked like it was working properly.

the down side would be that the aircarft still works more like a chopper then a actural plane class

i think what suma trying to say is that they can now make a mixed config aircraft that works both way, while Astanid is talking about another thing

Yeah, Suma is fairly clear, but it's hard to tell whether astanid knows something I don't or if he's unaware of Gnat's addon. Clearly, Gnat's addon is fully animated.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

IIUC correctly Gnat V-22 work in this way (that topic is big so let Gnat correct me if i'm mistaken):

- a lot of mass make it fly fast

- rotors are tilted via speed (or acceleration?) controller

- whole body is tilted to minimize 'nose down' chopper effect

But there's another option: just make heavy chopper with rotors tilted via RotorHDive controller. i.e only rotors would tilt not the whole body, thus making it more plane like. It could work back in ofp, but in arma it only works with ai, cause player can only control body tilt, not rotor's one.

though No need to argue a lot, cause i only partially checked the theory, Gnat ideas looks more flexible atm.

ONe thing i wanted to know was if RotorDive control will be fixed in 1.12 or Arma2...

[4 IN 1 0]

We did not want to base V22 on helicopter flight model, as this would make high speed simulation very clumsy. What we did was to extend the airplane VTOL model to allow for full VTOL (including descend/climb control while in hover), forced vectoring when grounded, and AI VTOL capabilities.

I am sure community is able to provide satisfactory results for ArmA 1 with scripting, and therefore will not miss those features in ArmA 1 that much, but I think once you will experience the ArmA 2 implementation, you will not want to go back any more.

I hope that you've buyed also a PC with Nvdia card.... so ArmA 2 will work fine with 8800 9800 and above...

and of course also with some alt-tab when we need to switch.

han? 8800 works fine for me