3d goggles - total immersion? (z800 3dvisor)

[Fresh- 6]

Hi,

Merry Christmas to everyone. I was browsing around the internet last night and discovered 3D goggles. I don't know anything about them, except that I'm very interested in this concept. I've searched all the forums and I'm surprised no one is talking about these. I'm opening this thread hoping to gather as much information and feedback as possible.

Has anyone bought a pair of 3D goggles? Any comments would be welcome. I'm discovering there are several different brands and technologies out there, wondering which is best.

From what I've been reading, the "eMagin Z800 3DVisor" seems to be very popular, but costs $1,450!! At this point that's out of my budget. I'd be willing to spend up to $800.

I've checked the Emagin forums but there is very little mention of ARMA. http://www.3dvisor.com/forum/

Further research shows some demos of Arma using these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILPKpJ-Z_ug&rel=1

I've also found something called HeadPLay, but these don't seem to have head tracking movement. They are much cheaper however. ($500ish)

http://www.headplay.com/Products

I've found other products here:

http://www.tekgear.ca/index.c....st=1,83

and here:

http://www.vrealities.com/hmd.html

So, I hope to hear from any of you. It seems to me ARMA would be the perfect environment for these types of goggles/glasses.

With best regards and cheers,

Fresh!

[Dwarden 1125]

i prefer stereoscopic glasses + two projectors + huge white wall

and this can't even touch the quality and resolution nor price

[Fresh- 6]

Quote[/b] ]stereoscopic glasses + two projectors + huge white wall

Hi Dwarden,

The problem is I live on a boat and I have no 'huge white walls'. Plus, it seems projectors are expensive, no?

Have you tried any of these goggles?

Cheers!

[Fresh- 6]

Wow, I just discovered this comparison chart:

http://www.stereo3d.com/hmd.htm#chart

I had no idea there were so many of these 3D 'Head mounted displays' as they are called. (HMD)

[mattxr 9]

TrackIR does the same thing without your eyes being covered.. for £100 odd...

The thing is mini screens that close into your eyes safe right now? maybe in about 50 years but..

[madrussian 347]

i prefer stereoscopic glasses + two projectors + huge white wall

and this can't even touch the quality and resolution nor price

You have got one of these set up?!?

Mind if I ask a few setup questions?

What projectors you are using?

Are they specially designed for stereo 3D (i.e. fast burning green phosphor, etc?)

Are you using shuttering or polerizing for your 3D?

What resolution is each projector running at?

Two seperate video cards?

Are you using the stereo drivers Nvidia released some time ago?

(Last I checked they hadn't updated them in quite a while.)

I've been thinking about such a setup since around 1999 or so... kinda forgot about it for a while though until you mentioned it!

edit:

btw Fresh- Dual projectors really is the way to go, if you've got the $.  It's going to be several more years to get an acceptable resolution/refresh with displays contained inside goggles... unless you're willing to spend a fortune.  Not to say that dual projectors won't take a chunk out of your wallet though!

[GAU-8 0]

its not "true 3D" but you can get good depth perception by using a fresnel lens, and setting that up in front of your monitor.

i made a thread about it some time ago, and it works very well.

i'll see if i can dig it up. its cheap, and very effective.

here is the linky

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....el+lens

depending on your monitor size, using a fresnel lens makes it "vitually BIGGER". i currently use a 19 inch widescreen, and using the fresnel lens make it as if i am looking thru a 27-28 inch monitor.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]i prefer stereoscopic glasses + two projectors + huge white wall

Technical question:

1. What kind of stereocopic glasses ? (Color offset or shutter)

2. How the hell can you sync two projectors with relatively slow TFT´s in it, so that the result is going to be a proper one ?

I´m having a projector myself and I know that the displays used in that projectors are quite slow in terms of refresh rate. If it´s a color-offset pair of glasse the effect is no "real" 3D

3. From my observations with 2 ident projectors you get an enourmous amount of flickering within the room that does negatively affect the experience up to a point where you get a big headache.

There are 3D projectors to buy but they begin at about 75.000 Euro if they are somwhat solid. Laser projectors that are in the works will probaly be the solution for 3D processing of signals within one beamer only. But with conventional home-cinema projectors it doesn´t really work.

Nvidia suppor for shutter mechanism has been abandoned long, long ago as there wasnt´much sucess with the devices.

I also used shutter glasses and still have a pair of ELSA Revelators in my desk, but the performance it took for the gfx card to actually render double the frames made it a bit useless for gaming.

I guess right now only superexpensive projectors used for science and professional presentations can be used for that purpose. But still, there´s the price...and christmas is already over, so no luck with sending a letter to Santa.

[mr burns 132]

Well you´ve once built a beamer yourself, why not try to make a 3D projector?

If you succeed there´d be plenty of customers on these forums

[Fresh- 6]

While the projector and fresnel seem like worthy prospects, I don't know if they compare to a 3D visor. I would think a 3D visor with motion sensor would be a much more immersive.

What prompted my search the other night on 3D goggles is the following story.

About two years ago I was invited to a party in the haight ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco. While at this party I was talking to some people and it so happened one of them was an silicone valley inventor. He was talking about a revolution in optics, something never before achieved with lenses. He invited 3 of us for a walk to his car. There, he opened his trunk and pulled out a little box which contained a pair of glasses. He explained these were prototype glasses. The man plugged these into a video Ipod. We each took a turn trying them on.

Personally, I was blown away. Here I was watching a music video which seemed to be on a large screen. He explained they were special because they were see through. In other words, unlike 3D visors, you could see past the video. He explained they would someday be used for pilots, drivers, fbi agents, all kinds of applications where you could wear clear glasses with built in screens off to the side, inside the glass.

In any case, I didn't forget the immersion these provided.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well you´ve once built a beamer yourself, why not try to make a 3D projector?

You may laugh, but I already have been thinking about that, that´s why I´m posting here, but from a technical point of view it either will be really big with bad "switching" behaviour because of the TFT delay and syncing up the TFT´s with an alternation rate to the gfx card is also complex. That´s why I hope for the introduction of lasers for projectors. Right now it´s all very expensive and the colour mixing doesnt work well, but once lasers modules with a decent hardware module are around that do not cost thousands I will certainly give it a try. They are simply too tempting as they have no surface limitations as they are not emitting with a focus like regular beamers do. So you can for example beam your picture on a waving flag or a waterfall for example and the picture will look solid and steady.

Currently I´m looking for a way to replace my lightsource in the beamer as mine requires serious cooling. Else the beamer would be on fire in no time as it uses a 250 W Quicksilver lamp that´s usually meant for bringing light to stadiums but not living-rooms

I´m still pretty proud of the DIY beamer though as it looks cool, is only 24 cm big, but 8,5 kilos heavy and has a better contrast ratio than most of the beamers to buy for around 600 Euros.

As the prices of good 7´´ TFT displays have dropped significantly over the last years I guess the budget today for a DIY beamer is around 150 Euro.

Thinking about the setup for a conventional stereo beamer you could have a centred light source, 2 TFT´s that are synced to each other and a hardware unit to process the switching between the TFT´s independant from the gfx card sync signal. An optical offset of the two lenses would give you the 3D effect then. Technically not that much of a problem but the TFT´s are simply to slow to make it look good. With optical mirrors the regular size of such a device would be around 60 cm wide, 20 cm deep and 20 cm high.

[bravo 6 0]

Those glasses will end up killing your eyes faster then usual..

I prefer trackIr 4 pro for health option. Just check the notes/information about that product on how long you should play without stop...

[andersson 285]

I was considering bying a pair of z800 some time ago, but 800x600 is not that great resolution.. So I'm waiting for a priceworthy with 1024x768 (min). Then there is the problem with Nvidia stereodrivers, they are not updated that regular  

edit

Quote[/b] ]I prefer trackIr 4 pro for health option.

They are not doing the same, trackir doesnt give you a 3d-environment. Alot of z800 owners use trackir as a combo as the inbuilt headtracking system isnt the best.

[BroK3n 0]

I bought the 3d glasses from eDimensional around the time OFP sites started advertising it.

Apart from the lack of driver support on both nVidia and ATI and the fact that I burnt up my gfx cards much faster than usual, the 3d perception is pretty spot on... when it works.

It's kinda a novelty at the moment... its cool to show off to friends and i played the entire game of FEAR with it and even spent a few weeks playing MP on it. When you get the settings right, there's no need for the crosshair.

But then again, smaller objects, especially in games like Arma and Battlefield, you can barely see them and it's difficult to spot and shoot since the crosshair's all messed up at such large virtual distances. FEAR takes place in small tight corridors so there really isnt this much of a problem.

The eDimensional glasses has this irritating blue hue to it and it makes the games significantly darker and there is no way I was able to readjust the RGB colors and gamma to make it look like the usual.

And like many others have said... the constant flickering.. sometimes more prominent when things are happening... takes a toll on your eyes. Thanks to those glasses, I have learnt how to do a one-sided cross-eye.

I wouldnt suggest "investing" in this electronic technology yet... unless you'd like to help in moving the industry forward (I was for the latter). Not yet. However the fresnell lens thing looks very interesting. I might even try it out!

Btw, have any of you tried the two-monitor-mirror set up yet?

[GAU-8 0]

thats the problem with "3D" glasses, as another poster had stated.

"its a novelty" at its current stage, with the LOW resolution, compared to its HIGH PRICE, add in the fact that its not fully up to speed.

seriously i would say you get more bang for buck with a TRACK-IR, and add a fresnel lens. it does wonders. when you add a slight curve to the fresnel lens, you add in a "3d" like environment. so you get depth, and a "field of view" thats very convincing. you could get "TRUE" 3D experience, but at a huge cost, and it will probably wear off, due to incompatibilities in function/hardware.

go out to a office depot, and get a "full page magnifier" for 6 dollars, and TRY it. (these are CHEAP fresnel lenses, just for expirimentation,...not the quality ones) but if you LIKE what you see you can then get the more expensive ones, and build to suit.( the quality lenses, are MUCH better in the viewing with little or no distortion)

if you dont like the effect, you are only out 6 dollars, and some cardboard. but i still say get the track-IR anyways.

there is a reason many flight sim fans (and proffesional companies) use track-ir AND a fresnel lens (of course on a much larger scale for thier 100 percent scale cockpits). great immersion, and its CHEAP, compared to

"gimmicks" or million dollar "not quite perfected" tech

go to youtube, and type in fresnel lens/ cockpit/ gaming/driving. youll see.

here is a sample of many

[BroK3n 0]

Thanks GAU-8. I actually do have a TrackIR already and having a blast with it. I was contemplating whether or not o get either one (the glasses or TrackIR) in 2002... well... 5 years later I finally got my hands on TrackIR.

Im gonna go test out the fresnel lens things tomorrow and see how it's like. The feedback from the IL2 Sturmovik thread got me excited.

I did try the mirror thing on COD3 demo a year or so ago and while it was pretty cool without all the color problems... it simply wasnt practical playing with a glass between your eyes for hours. And expensive too.

[GAU-8 0]

whoops , i should have specified to who:P

the last post by me, was meant for fresh!NUTS to consider. but if it sounds good for you too, then good to hear

many people like, it, some dont. i cant say it is for you or not, but if people try it, then they can see for themselves why it is gaining popularity.

the biggest drawback i feel is finding a way to set up the lens with your (personal liking) distance between the monitor, and the user. then being able to keep that distance in place. the other issue is that it catches a LOT of light. using this setup is best in the dark.

well, i dont mean to hijack the thread, but i felt i had to add in the alternative way to consider things in "3D" compared to the Z800 VISOR..so this is all i am going to post about the fresnel lens. i am happy to accept a PM if any questions arise from those that are interested.

[BroK3n 0]

Wow... i should stop thinking that everyone wants to talk to me.

Anyways I got out and bought a 10inch by seven inch lens from the bookstore... though too small for the 19 inch lcd, I did realise what you were coming to.

And i think i'm sold. Going over to 3dlens now...

[funnyguy1 0]

Well, since it's the only place where I can ask someone here about such stuff...

what about the i-glasses?

edit:

Forget about that^. Maybe it's not the greatest thing I've ever saw, but few people might want to have these:

main site

edit:

no side effects, and 3D - it's worth trying imho.

[evil koala 6]

You're aware that a 72" display at 10ft, is the same as 14.4" at 2 ft right? Thats about a 30.9 degree FOV.

My monitor is 18" viewable at 2ft. Thats a 36.8 degree FOV.

Just get a bigger monitor and a TrackIR.

[LtCmdrBoon 0]

I have trackIR and the 3d goggles being the nerd I am.

the trackIR is completely different thing and not mix the 2 up like some have. TrackIR is bascily a webcam that only see's 3 reflectors that are attached to your hat you have on. If I turn my head to the right 1' for example, through its maths, my ingame head might move to the right 10' or so etc etc.

the 3d glasses have tiny on/off lcd screens that alternate between letting me see through my left eye and right eye, this syncs with the graphics card, and in effect, the computer is rendering 2 points of view, and only letting you see 1 at once with each eye, creating the illusion of a 3d world, although tbh I have more flicker and head aches than anything else, even though the reviews were good.