Let's talk about VOIP in 1.09

[lee_h._oswald 0]

I guess you can look at it as the glass being half empty if you want, but that's a pretty sorry way to live your life.  

Everything is ok with my life, thanks.

And at the moment I'm drinken a beer and the glass is full, thanks again.

Problem is, there are a LOT of ppl here, wating for the god damned patch to fix their numerous problems that are in the game for years now(if you count OFP bugs) + all the new ones.

Everyone WANTS information and the only thing we hear about, month after the 1.08 release, is the voice feature(which is very cool as I said).

Sorry that I don't jump out of the stair und scream HORRAY.

I don't want to blame you for BIS 'nightmarish catastrophe' information politics, sorry if you felt like that after my post..

MfG Lee

[MisterXY 0]

Zooming in irons isn't really unrealistic, but I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion of that, so I'll simply say that I disagree with you.

The animation transitions in a lot of cases have been smoothed out. I can't give details on them because I'm not sure exactly which ones have changed, but the general movement feels a bit smoother now.

How can I zoom in with my real eyes when I look down the sights? Uhh how does this work? Without an attached binocular it's impossible.

It's something that turns ArmA into an aim-cheating simulator. Can I zoom in OFP when I use the sights? I think not or I'm wrong?

In real life you can focus your view on something, but not zoom in...

If you have valid points that it's "realistic" I will change my mind.

[MehMan 0]

Ever tried moving your head?

[MisterXY 0]

Ever tried moving your head?

I do this 24/7 every week.

[W0lle 1048]

What has moving your head to do with VOIP?

Is it really that hard to stay on-topic for longer then 2 hours in these forums?

Last time: Stay on topic or face the consequences.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]Some little voice net thing is not exactly the first thing BIS should be looking at (even if it makes them & you 'wow'. TS is easyer to use with bindings.

Let me be clear here.

I am not interested in debating various aspects of ArmA in this forum. My apologies if that's all you're hoping to get from this post.

I posted to talk primarily about VOIP, which, yes, offers a significant gameplay improvement along with features that cannot be matched by Teamspeak.

There is a very distinct element of this community (manifested mostly in this forum, but not so much in other forums about the game) that is unable to come to grips with what realistic expectations for the 1.09 patch are. You talk about revamping the entire armor modeling system, overhauling the entire animation system, and more - and you honestly think these suggestions are appropriate for ArmA v1.09?

I cannot take anyone seriously who is making such statements. It shows a gross misunderstanding of game development & post-release support.

Please, if you have an issue, take it to the "Disappointed with ArmA?" thread. I'd like to reserve this one for productive discussion based on the guidelines set forth in the original post.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello there,

I would like to personally thank Dslyecxi and ShackTac for testing this and bringing their suggestions forward to BIS and of course thank BIS for listening to them and trying to implement stuff (Which as we all know doesn't usually happen at all,probably even more a reason to thank Dsylecxi and his team).

I can't wait for the VOIP and that we dont have to edit the bin.pbo anymore to get rid of kill-messages is a nice thing

Same with the scoreboard. The old hack we did for WGL5 back then was okay, but it was a hack.

So,Thanks everyone involved again and I wish someday we get a Dyslecxi for MP Scripting,which still is,especially the JIP scripting(selectplayer).. *sighs . Ah well, lets be happy about the progress so far

[Second 0]

Nice thing that VOIP is atleast good.

[dmarkwick 261]

How can I zoom in with my real eyes when I look down the sights? Uhh how does this work? Without an attached binocular it's impossible.

It's something that turns ArmA into an aim-cheating simulator. Can I zoom in OFP when I use the sights? I think not or I'm wrong?

In real life you can focus your view on something, but not zoom in...

If you have valid points that it's "realistic" I will change my mind.

It's a matter of visual psychology. In RL, when you really look at something you apply all your attention to it, and details really start to jump out. Ever taken a photo of a huge full moon only to discover when it's printed that it's tiny? Military grade flight simulators have documents describing this phenomena, it's a big problem when displaying distant aircraft as a couple of pixels. Believe it or not one method to overcome this is to use larger-than-life models to represent distant aircraft to make up for this.

As the monitor you use is a fixed pixel item, really concentrating on an area just shows up the pixels, you need some way to be able to simulate "concentration" on an area, and really the only way to do this is to zoom in. Remember it's not a magic fix, you lose concentration on outside-the-view areas as a trade-off.

If you want realism you need to make realistic trade-off. It's not exactly realistic to play your battle through a monitor-sized viewing area, so you're always going to need some sort of reasonable trade-offs to maintain overall realism.

*edit* BTW, it's not really aim-cheating if everyone has it right?

[dmarkwick 261]

I am not interested in debating various aspects of ArmA in this forum.

Oops I'll try to remain on-topic

[MehMan 0]

What has moving your head to do with VOIP?

Apologies for going off topic again.

Quote[/b] ]I do this 24/7 every week.

Well then you can understand that when you hold a rifle you can move your head closer to the ironsights. You can move your head forward without moving your whole body forward.

Now enough of me in this topic and enough offtopicness.

Good news that VOIP is getting improved and I never knew about the direct speaking option. That's a new thing isn't it? That's something that has been mentioned and it's really cool to see it being brought ingame. Always wanted something like this in games, now is a good time to make my mic work.

[Prydain 1]

You talk about revamping the entire armor modeling system, overhauling the entire animation system, and more - and you honestly think these suggestions are appropriate for ArmA v1.09?

Please Dslyecxi, if BIS can waste time on a voice system (which apparently takes more testing than a whole game in a beta state), then they can surely have spent that time fixing the game instead.

Sure, not all three problems can be adressed, I am willing to pay for a 'finnished' game for a second time with ArmA2. But for now I just wish we could have at least one of the problems fixed, animations come first in my wish list.

We could all be defeatist USMC walts Dslyecxi, but if you don't ask.

Anyway, on to the jolly voice mod... hmm, nothing much to discuss and TS is readily available.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]Please Dslyecxi, if BIS can waste time on a voice system (which apparently takes more testing than a whole game in a beta state), then they can surely have spent that time fixing the game instead.

You assume so much with such arrogance, and yet when it comes down to it... you're simply wrong.

Please stop going off topic. You really do not understand what you are asking for.

Quote[/b] ]We could all be defeatist USMC walts Dslyecxi, but if you don't ask.

Oh boy, a personal attack!

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, on to the jolly voice mod... hmm, nothing much to discuss and TS is readily available.

ArmA VOIP does things that TS cannot do. I say this as someone who has damn near perfected TS communications for my group, a group which has 50+ player sessions on a regular basis with very solid organization and communication. ArmA VOIP adds an immense amount of comm enhancements to us, and when paired with TS, it's a fantastic combination.

The videos show this off fine. I believe that most people who have actually taken the time to look at the two 20-30 minute videos can see that quite clearly. You seem to have an anti-BIS agenda, which I assume is why you so stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the benefits of the ArmA VOIP.

But hey, whatever. Some people just love to complain. Please, though.. do it in a different thread.

[Second 0]

Dslyecxi: BI forums are full of nagging wifes i'll be telling you.

My sad thing is that i couldn't use OFP's direct communication chanel ('direct speak' was it?), which atleast LDD Kyllikki was using. Same goes with ArmA, problem is deep inside my computer and DirectX... Oh and let's not turn this to troubleshooting topic either as it is OT and i know that problem fixing it is one helluva piece of work (and most likely difficult and unhealthy for my windows too)

[Yoma 0]

Hi Dslyecxi

1) Is there a way to mute some player in case of microphone accidents, underaged hormone sprays on global channels etc ?

It looks very good when playing in a decent team, but public serverwise this may end up to be a nightmare if you can't mute.

2) Do you have to push a button to talk (my guess would be yes) ?

3) Is the fog gone on 8800's? (sorry for this one, i just HAD to ask)

Have a nice day and thanks for sharing!

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]Dslyecxi: BI forums are full of nagging wifes i'll be telling you.

Yeah, I know. It's unfortunate. I would post here a lot more often if it weren't for that fact.

Quote[/b] ]1) Is there a way to mute some player in case of microphone accidents, underaged hormone sprays on global channels etc ?

It looks very good when playing in a decent team, but public serverwise this may end up to be a nightmare if you can't mute.

Currently there is no mute option, aside from just disabling VOIP on the server. They add things daily, though, so maybe we'll be able to get this in there.

Quote[/b] ]3) Is the fog gone on 8800's? (sorry for this one, i just HAD to ask)

I believe so. I have an ATI card myself, though.

[W0lle 1048]

Prydain

72h post restriction for your off-topic ranting and not following a moderators instructions

[beta 0]

Very good news! I've been hoping that ArmA's voice system would be working since 1.00. Back at 1.05 I remember it half-worked, and when it didn't cause a blue-screen-of-death, the direct speech channel was AWESOME.

TS is a great application and all, but it has many limitations. Most of these limitations are not apparent in the 'standard' ArmA MP-session of either Evolution, Bezerk, CTF, or similar. However, when you try and play a large-scale (30 vs. 30) combined arms PvP battle, TS flaws are quite apparent.

It takes a long while to organize people into the required channels, and not putting people into channels will lead to MADNESS. 30 people all yelling about something at the same time is NOT an effective means of communication. Once you get all the channels set up, get all the inter-channel keys set up, TS works nicely.

Having the ArmA VOIP (if it indeed DOES work, you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical, I've been disappointed 5 times now) working, especially with the direct speech channel, communication becomes MUCH easier and natural. With TS, if you wanted to talk to a squad that in the game is standing two meters from you, you would have to have the proper keys bound, and remember them which can be difficult if there are 5-6 channels. With ArmA VOIP, simply transmit on the direct channel and they hear you.

...

Anyways, on to my questions.

1) Does the VOIP in fact ACTUALLY work, or is this some sort of cruel joke? Be honest now.

2) When transmitting to the Group or Side channel, if a player not in your Group or on your Side is within audible distance (the distance you could hear it if it was transmitted on the Direct channel) will they hear it as well? Basically, do Group and Side transmission also transmit on Direct?

If not, I think that would be a great feature, obviously depending on how easy it is to implement. This would simulate using the radio, much like how the Menu-driven commands play both over the radio and from the character. However, the Global channel should remain as the "unrealistic" channel, and not be transmitted on Direct as well.

3) Will you hear Global transmissions if you are set to say, the Group channel? Or will being on a channel filter out the radio traffic of the other channels?

Again, I think this would help a lot to lessen the problem of "radio spammers". Yes, you could just kick them, but some people just tend to go nuts with the feature, but are otherwise good players. If the transmissions were filtered, you could seek "solitude" in the Direct channel heh. This would need the player to switch channels more often, but I think it would be worth the hassle to effectively eliminate the annoying "radio chatter".

Thats all I can think of for now, thank you VERY much for taking the time to give us this information AND to respond to the questions (even the aggravating ones) that have been asked!

[Sosna 0]

Zooming in irons isn't really unrealistic, but I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion of that, so I'll simply say that I disagree with you.

The animation transitions in a lot of cases have been smoothed out. I can't give details on them because I'm not sure exactly which ones have changed, but the general movement feels a bit smoother now.

How can I zoom in with my real eyes when I look down the sights? Uhh how does this work? Without an attached binocular it's impossible.

It's something that turns ArmA into an aim-cheating simulator. Can I zoom in OFP when I use the sights? I think not or I'm wrong?

In real life you can focus your view on something, but not zoom in...

If you have valid points that it's "realistic" I will change my mind.

Uh in case you didn't notice, most people can't play at a resolution any where near that of the human eye. It doesn't make much sense to have a simulation force everyone to play as a nearsighted soldier.

Zooming is the best solution possible for now. However, I think it should be modified so lower resolutions get more zoom, and higher resolutions get less, So the zoom level is consistent and fair.

By the way, OFP did zoom in when using iron sights, it just couldn't be adjusted.

[bigshot 64]

I hope i didnt miss this, but i dont think it was mentioned yet...is there any talk about when 1.09 will officially be released? (not an actual date but a time frame goal)

Thanks!

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]1) Does the VOIP in fact ACTUALLY work, or is this some sort of cruel joke? Be honest now.

You can see it in the videos. VOIP works pretty reliably now. There are a few people who are having issues with it, but that's what the testing is all about. We've seen it improve significantly since we started focusing our efforts on it. It has been a very responsive aspect of the testing. There may be some bugs in it that require a larger userbase to discover (ie, maybe a public beta like that 1.08), but even with them it's working very nicely right now.

Quote[/b] ]2) When transmitting to the Group or Side channel, if a player not in your Group or on your Side is within audible distance (the distance you could hear it if it was transmitted on the Direct channel) will they hear it as well? Basically, do Group and Side transmission also transmit on Direct?

Talking over a "radio" channel (side, group, vehicle) has an associated "Direct Speaking" effect. The audible radius is maybe 1/3rd as big as when using the dedicated "Direct Speaking" channel, which makes sense - the person is talking into a radio, quieter, so they can't be heard for as far.

Quote[/b] ]3) Will you hear Global transmissions if you are set to say, the Group channel? Or will being on a channel filter out the radio traffic of the other channels?

You don't "set" yourself to a radio channel. You will hear everything as it relateds to you (ie: people in your group over the group channel, your side on the side channel, your vehicle on the vehicle channel), and the "Who's Speaking" indicator will color-code the player names based on what channel they're talking over.

Quote[/b] ]Again, I think this would help a lot to lessen the problem of "radio spammers". Yes, you could just kick them, but some people just tend to go nuts with the feature, but are otherwise good players. If the transmissions were filtered, you could seek "solitude" in the Direct channel heh. This would need the player to switch channels more often, but I think it would be worth the hassle to effectively eliminate the annoying "radio chatter".

I don't think this would work very well. If you look at the example organization ShackTac will be using, you will see that forcing people to choose which channel they listen to would result in some very fractured and difficult-to-use comms. The current system appears to work very well from our testing.

Quote[/b] ]Thats all I can think of for now, thank you VERY much for taking the time to give us this information AND to respond to the questions (even the aggravating ones) that have been asked!

No problem. It's posts like these that are why I even bother.

edit:

Quote[/b] ]I hope i didnt miss this, but i dont think it was mentioned yet...is there any talk about when 1.09 will officially be released? (not an actual date but a time frame goal)

It's probably not far off, but I can't claim to know anything concrete about a possible release date. It wouldn't be my place to hypothesize about a date range, either. I hope you understand.

[MehMan 0]

One question though, you say objects block the direct speaking too. I've noticed that ArmA bushes like to work as great big sound absorbers, so lets say somebody is on the other side of a bush from you and uses direct speak, will this be blocked out by the bush?

[W0lle 1048]

Sosna

You're the next one. 72h PR for not following a moderators advice - there were 2 of us telling you do stop going off-topic.

BigShot

As I seen that topic earlier today I was 100% sure that this question will come up.

It will be released the day there is an annoucement in the BI News forum.

I hate to repeat myself, but for the very last time now: Stay on-topic. This thread is about the VOIP functions in ArmA only!

[opteryx 1562]

Don't know if this has been asked, but does VOIP feature sound occlusion?

-edit-

LOL

[dmarkwick 261]

One question though, you say objects block the direct speaking too. I've noticed that ArmA bushes like to work as great big sound absorbers, so lets say somebody is on the other side of a bush from you and uses direct speak, will this be blocked out by the bush?

I would guess it's a general sound engine thing. The sound isn't exactly blocked, just muffled & decreased.

I noticed this when using viewblock smoke, as viewblock is apparently also soundblock. So viewblock smoke will also muffle sound until some sort of change is made to the engine, which won't be in this iteration of ArmA I would guess.