What ArmA Needs

[Rogueci5 0]

Hi all

Well the main issue with ArmA as I see it today is not cheats, its not patches, its Playing Community.

I look over the vast ingame browser and as stated by somebody else in here theres masses of servers, with a few here a few there.

We need some kind Company to put up a 24hrs server with a massive connection, that allows known Community Mods to re start etc.

And max this game out at 100 players a side and FIGHT Battles!

Mods like this are Bloody GREAT-TOW- And I wish Aus was running one.

Anybody know a company we could approach as a community?

*sighs* just my thoughts I LOVE ArmA

[LeftSkidLow 1]

And why do you think there aren't enough players..... because any time they congregate and get a good game going some a-hole with cheats comes and ruins the game killing everyone. It happened to me last night and now I'm just surprised when my games DON'T get hacked.

[abs 2]

I guess I've been lucky. I only play public servers, and I haven't been hacked as of yet.

Abs

[-Total- 0]

Actually, my clan was talking about ArmA last night and our disappointment.

A couple of us played OFP, but we didn't approach ArmA as some sort of OFP2. We wanted a completely new game and got it.

We played invite-level competition in America' Army and all of us competed in other previous games as well. Hackers are part of life in both pubs and match play. They will never go away, so just accept it as an occurance you will run into at least weekly in any game. Example: Hacks are already out for COD4 lol!

Our disappointment was in the community and the lack of Player vs Player and the love of Evolution or Evolution inspired mods. We got tired of only seeing people play AI.

In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI.

So, ArmA, instead of being the End All of massive battles, has become the game that my clan, like many others, unistalled due to the community's love of playing a predictable oppenent - the AI.

[Junker 0]

Quote[/b] ]In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI.

ArmA AI is not scripted,

There is alot difference between ARMA AI and other games AI.

[Maddmatt 1]

Actually, my clan was talking about ArmA last night and our disappointment.

A couple of us played OFP, but we didn't approach ArmA as some sort of OFP2. We wanted a completely new game and got it.

We played invite-level competition in America' Army and all of us competed in other previous games as well. Hackers are part of life in both pubs and match play. They will never go away, so just accept it as an occurance you will run into at least weekly in any game. Example: Hacks are already out for COD4 lol!

Our disappointment was in the community and the lack of Player vs Player and the love of Evolution or Evolution inspired mods. We got tired of only seeing people play AI.

In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI.

So, ArmA, instead of being the End All of massive battles, has become the game that my clan, like many others, unistalled due to the community's love of playing a predictable oppenent - the AI.

Then why doesn't your clan play other maps? What's forcing you to join Evolution? The more people join in and get servers to play other maps the better things will get.

Personally I've played Evo enough. I don't play it anymore.

I find the fact that people play the same map over and over ridiculous. If you want to play another map, then join in and choose it. The fact that nobody makes an effort to choose another map is why we have this situation.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Our PvP Advance & Secure server is available 24/7 for team on team battles.

[TrunkzJr 0]

I don't like the maps and stuff that have PVP, their just not fun... The only thing I have fun with is Evolution with my friend playing side by side on our computers. I play it for the Freedom.

[.kju 3244]

@Total:

join ESL ArmA leagues or

join ECL ArmA leagues

[Madus_Maximus 0]

ArmA comes with a little known thing called the "Mission Editor". With it you can *gasp* make missions! Maybe rather than complain there isn't enough mission types out there why not make your own that suites you? This just sums up the majority of the community for ArmA in my opinion "I want something but I want someone else to make it for me!". Sure it's not the easiest thing in the world to do but if you just sit around complaining there's no missions that you like whilst you have the means to actually make one you DO like is just laughable. If you're in a "Clan" or "Squad" or whatever you want to call them then maybe you can get a small group of the team to create missions for you to play? Then the rest of the team can test them out and give feedback untill you get what you all want (or reach a middle ground at least).

[Maddmatt 1]

ArmA comes with a little known thing called the "Mission Editor". With it you can *gasp* make missions! Maybe rather than complain there isn't enough mission types out there why not make your own that suites you? This just sums up the majority of the community for ArmA in my opinion "I want something but I want someone else to make it for me!". Sure it's not the easiest thing in the world to do but if you just sit around complaining there's no missions that you like whilst you have the means to actually make one you DO like is just laughable. If you're in a "Clan" or "Squad" or whatever you want to call them then maybe you can get a small group of the team to create missions for you to play? Then the rest of the team can test them out and give feedback untill you get what you all want (or reach a middle ground at least).

There are plenty of MP missions. The problem is that people don't play them, they just stick with Evo.

It's kinda sad and pathetic IMO, all these good missions but people just wanna play the same thing over and over again

Some of these missions do use a large part of the map and have many objectives like Evo, but without the (annoying IMO) point system. I've had some great fun playing a mission called "Payback" (I think) which was pretty large scale and well made. There are more, just check out the user missions section and you can find some very good missions.

All these great missions being ignored by a large amount of people

[celery 8]

Quote[/b] ]In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI.

ArmA AI is not scripted,

There is alot difference between ARMA AI and other games AI.

Are you serious? The AI's behaviour is definitely scripted or it would do absolutely nothing. And the point stands, once you know how they react to various things, it's like shooting a fish in a barrel unless there are so many fishes that they drown you.

[Maddmatt 1]

Quote[/b] ]In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI.

ArmA AI is not scripted,

There is alot difference between ARMA AI and other games AI.

Are you serious? The AI's behaviour is definitely scripted or it would do absolutely nothing. And the point stands, once you know how they react to various things, it's like shooting a fish in a barrel unless there are so many fishes that they drown you.

It's not scripted. The mission editor just gives it basic orders and it makes decisions on it's own. (Ever try the guard waypoint?)

Scripted AI would mean that the mission editor has to define exactly what it does.

Look at the FSM files for yourself. That's not scripting (Note the AI doesn't only use the FSM files, the rest is programmed in the game).

[dmitri 0]

Well the main issue with ArmA as I see it today is not cheats, its not patches, its Playing Community.

Yup, you're right. Stiff competition from other fps titles as regards popularity. ArmA has a relatively slow pace and isn't slick enough. Numbers attract numbers. People won't play on a server that isn't busy.

The reality is, the majority of gamers out there find this game boring. Nothing will change that, bar a lobotomy.

My own community is small. We have one local server. Our community is sustained by a handful of regular players. Geographically we are too far ping-wise for overseas players. Someone found a link to a server ranking's site that lists about 50 ArmA servers. I was shocked to see we were number 12 based on average player numbers (4).

But to be honest, mass numbers of players was never something that I expected. I played OFP on LAN for years, having 3 other guys to play with then was miracle enough. Best you can hope for is finding a core group of regulars and hope that they maintain the same interest in the game that you have.

[Jack-UK 0]

Quote[/b] ]In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI.

ArmA AI is not scripted,

There is alot difference between ARMA AI and other games AI.

Are you serious? The AI's behaviour is definitely scripted or it would do absolutely nothing. And the point stands, once you know how they react to various things, it's like shooting a fish in a barrel unless there are so many fishes that they drown you.

It's not scripted. The mission editor just gives it basic orders and it makes decisions on it's own. (Ever try the guard waypoint?)

Scripted AI would mean that the mission editor has to define exactly what it does.

Look at the FSM files for yourself. That's not scripting (Note the AI doesn't only use the FSM files, the rest is programmed in the game).

Well you're both right, Obviously the AI has to have a scripted/programmed/FSM'd 'brain' and its definately predictable, you can tell when they're gonna fire at you half the time, it may not follow exact predesigned paths as in some other games, but the ai 'brain' is definately predictable in some cases.

Though you're right, its not 'scripted' as in it has pre-programmed direct paths and points of fire/exact points to defend at. (unless specifically scripted by the mission maker)

[-Total- 0]

For those who think we didn't try:

The first two Advance & Secure maps submitted to teamwarfare.com ka TWL were created by me THe fact that TWL was trying to start up a league was advertised on these forums by your's trully as well.

I advertised our ArmA server on here and other places that it would have PvP maps up. We would sit in there for hours and no one else would join. We would look at the server listing and only Player vs AI would be populated. The only real populated PvP server (I forget the name) was running the Berzerk Mod and usually one hacker would empty out the server.

As far as the AI not being scripted? They are.

The AI in ArmA are more adaptable in this game than others, but I could conquer Evolution (ranked version in veteran's mode) by myself in about 5 hours. With the rest of us playing, it took even less time. Left side of Parasio with MP5. Get Corporal. Set up a FARP on the hill to the right side of town. Get a Mk2 hummer shoot the nearest squad to make Sgt. Bring up a Mk19 and a missile hummer. Clear the trees with the missiles. Use the Mk19 to kill troops and passing Hinds. Shoot and they hit the ground. Kill them, but kill the sniper first then kill themachine gunner. Watch out for the flanker. Shoot the flanker. By this time, you should have enough rank to fly at least the MH-60 mg. Assign AI to a formation and press forward. Once you make Colonel, get in a cobra with ground support and you have it made. Do not full destroy enemy T-72's and repair them afterwards. Free tanks. Town after town, repeat. It's no more than a glorified first person Real-time strategy game that, once figured out, no longer hold the initial challenge at all.

I applaud the effort that is being made to get more PvP, but it's the effort I was making months ago when peope were still oggling and lamenting over the PvAI shortfalls.

Once a game's population falls, it cannot be re-susbtantiated by a group of the community. I knew of at least 50 people from the competative side of America's Army and Battlefield 2 who bought ArmA for it's multiplayer possibilities. Most unistalled after a month of waiting. I unistalled 2 weeks ago. I was the last one in .rX^ to uninstall as I was the one who basically talked the others into buying it.

Good effort, but it's too late at this point to try to use PvP to revive the player population.

I await ArmA 2 and will actively push Player vs Player when it comes out. I only hope that those pushing the PvP side now, will immediately push it then. If a large portion of the community doesn't bring it alive upon it's release, then PvP will not succeed in ArmA2 either.

[Junker 0]

Scripted AI = they do the same thing every time - in the same places at the exact same times.

ArmA uses a function that make s the AI think for it self and decide weather to attack - defend or retreat.

I wish a dev would support us on this theory

Over to you SUMO :P

[Jack 0]

Unfortunately I have to say that I agree with you on most points, Total.

If the AI isn't challenging you though, I would try incorporating the Group Link II scripts into any missions you make in the future.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

FSMs follow static code. Scripts are static code.

So FSMs are just like scripts, but in another form - it's all static. In the same situation an FSM will run the same code every time.

An alternative would be FSMs with FuzzyLogic which would appear to make dynamic decisions because normally it uses more information for the decision-making process. Takes more processing power from your CPU -> lower fps.

Real dynamic gameplay would mean to have a learning game with neural nets or genetic algorithms, but that's quite heavy on your CPU and memory. (very low fps i suppose)

Personally i don't give anything on HOW an AI is done in a game, everything depends on the fun / the gameplay. And good gameplay comes from good ideas.

If you think classic coop becomes boring after a certain time why not make a mission like evolution where 1 human player has control over the AI groups ?

[-Total- 0]

Precisely. Once you learn the algorythmic patterns, it's easy

[Rogueci5 0]

Back again all sorry about the delay to reply to my own thread

Anyway, I think some of you got my point, some got onto AIs? And some offered some good servers

My main point (and yes as somebody stated its far too late now) is ArmA Should have had Masses of Players playing PvP on Dedicated servers, and I don’t mean clan servers, I mean servers simular to the ones offered by Nova World.

I wanted to see mass gun fights across the land scape, over flights of choppers and tank engagements, I wanted 20 guys running beside me as we out flanked an enemy held position, I wanted to lay in the grass and lase targets to the warts, I wanted to hear the VOIP chatter as players died and new stratgeic targets were relayed, I wanted to be knifed by that sick sod who crawled the last 500m on his stomach up to our sniper position.

That’s all I wanted, ArmA Could have done this, gees back in the DFLW days on Nova (for those who played) Servers were packed out 32 a side. ( that’s huge back then for the young ones).

Yes ArmA is slow but with 200 Real Players playing the map would be rather small

*sighs* Its such a sad shame.

I do accept financial reasons would not allow this but it’s such a waste.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

DFLW was crap compaired to DF2 , no grass or ghilli suits etc. BHD was an improvement, JO was good untill Nova dumbed everything down for the idiots that kept hitting moutains with chopers and the killcam was introduced to stop complaints about unseen people shooting you ( this is why we played the reality mod of JO ).

When we do get players into our AAS server the battles can be very good, its just a pity there arnt many willing players arround now to fill the maps.

[deady 0]

Problem is theres no good missions out there that support 200 players. In addition they'd need to be scripted very well and not need 24/7 admin attention, much like Evolution manages to pull off.

Also, the current dedicated server would most likely struggle with 200 players, JIP lag would become unbearable and hackers would wreck everything before it ever got going.

Aside from all that,yeah it would work :P

[Dwarden 1125]

i concur that LW was crap ... it may be crap on techical side/AI/bugs and so on BUT

LW was quite fun in MP before cheaters ruined it

50 player server were full, totally packed of action...

ofc it deviated already from original DF1,2 (man anyone remember the hide&seek in grass ?

it was arcade but imho good one at that point of time (you can't say that about later game in serie till JoinOps which was quite nice try)

p.s. ArmA with good config, powerful server and uber bw line is able handle ~100-150 players

it's just lot of work to maintain

[Junker 0]

all you need know is a mission concept that can support and cope with this type of PvP  

Mass scale PvP sounds like a good idea even tho im a Co-Op Fan i could be CONVERTED   :P

IDEA of mine is a supply line type mission or FRONTLINE type mission (Like WW2 ONLINE)