Tank Fire Control Systems

[PhilippRauch 0]

#I think its best to focus on the gunner/cannon system first... the other tank systems just enhance the capability to get targets and give the crew a better overall situational awareness and some more comfort (which isnt needed in ArmA :P or shall we include, if the Aircon fails, the units loose stamina? .. jsut kiddin ) ).

And PLEASE no ACE, TOW or Air class discussion here, this topic is complex enough. Being basically a topic of Gun Ballistics and Addon animations.

Question to NWD:

Why do you use this Hexagon laser setup in MBTELRF.sqf? Maybe i dont get it, but why 7 Laserbeams in this ? I can understand the whole trigo stuff to get trunnion correction and such but i dont understand why its better than one beam. ??

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We have to take away the mouse control over turret and gun. The turret and gun should get slewed by user animations powered by a looping script, which provide the gyrosimulation as well. Only this way we will also have the possibility to add the gunner override for commanders seat later on. For manual mode there will be keyeventhandlers catching the necessary keymoves when in manual mode (each hit on the key is like 0.1mil turret movement hehehe... *crank*crank*crank*... ).

Except for turned out and using the mounted mg, there will be no (direct) mouse input for the gunner. The mouse will still move its turret/barrel axises, but they arent linked to any visible/usable selections (i.e. a "invisible" turret/gun). Those values will be requested/send to a looping script which adjusts and sends those values in regards to the gunners view and the calculated firing solution to the "real" visible turret/gun selections. This way its very simple to control the turret/gun selection how we want it to and when, i.e. adding sway while driving etc...

The main differences between A1 and A2s from an addon perspective are as mentioned the different reticle/stadia, independend sights(?), commander overrides and the additional systems like MFD and 2nd Gen FLIR (on SEPs). (the latter two we dont need to care about right now)

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//----- INFO for those who want to follow this discussion :P ----------

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

(below are quotes from this link with related stuff to this topic)

This article is a nice comparison of the various variants (?) but the article is only up to year 2000 or so...

>----<

M1/IPM1 (many of those where/are upgraded to M1A2s)

M1A1

Quote[/b] ]The Gunner's Primary Sight-Line of Sight (GPS-LOS), was developed by the Electro-Optical Systems Division of Hughes Aircraft Company. The night vision Thermal Imaging System (TIS), also from Hughes, creates an image based on the differences of heat radiated by objects in the field of view. The thermal image is displayed in the eyepiece of the Gunner's sight together with the range measurement to within 10 meters of accuracy, from a Hughes laser range finder, which is integrated into all of the fire control systems. The Abrams also has an onboard digital fire control computer. Range data from the laser rangefinder is transferred directly to the fire control computer, which automatically calculates the fire control solution. The data includes 1) the lead angle measurement, 2) the bend of the gun measured by the muzzle reference system of the main armament, 3) wind velocity measurement from a wind sensor on the roof of the turret and 4) the data from a pendulum static cant sensor located at the center of the turret roof. The Gunner or Commander manually inputs the data on the ammunition type and temperature, and the barometric pressure and the weapon is prepared for engagement.

Leopard 2 uses the same Hughes Laser

M1A1 HA

Quote[/b] ]An improvement program will eventually upgrade all M1A1 tanks with steel encased depleted uranium armor, which has a density at least two-and-a-half times greater than steel. The depleted uranium armor will raise the total weight of the Abrams tank to 65 tons, but offers vastly improved protection in the bargain.

M1A1D

Quote[/b] ]The M1A1D is a digitized M1A1 that provides improved situational awareness and far target designate capability. ... The Army is also seeking to fundo resource upgrades to the M1A1 fire control system with the same 2nd Gen FLIR package on the M1A2.

M1A2

Only difference to M1A1 is weight, override function and independend sights (something else?) ...

Quote[/b] ]Further M1A2 improvements, called the System Enhancement Program (SEP), are underway to enhance the tank's digital command and control capabilities and to to improve the tank’s fightability and lethality. ...

M1A2 SEP

Quote[/b] ]The M1A2 System Enhanced Program (SEP) is an upgrade to the computer core that is the essence of the M1A2 tank. The SEP upgrade includes improved processors, color and high resolution flat panel displays, increased memory capacity, user friendly Soldier Machine Interface (SMI) and an open operating system that will allow for future growth

...

Major improvements include the integration of the Second Generation Forward Looking Infared (2nd Gen FLIR) sight, the Under Armor Auxiliary Power Unit (UAAPU) and a Thermal Management System (TMS).

The 2nd Generation Forward Looking InfraRed sighting system (2nd Gen FLIR) will replace the existing Thermal Image System (TIS) and the Commander's Independent Thermal Viewer. The incorporation of 2nd Gen FLIR into the M1A2 tank will require replacement of all 1st Gen FLIR components. From the warfighter perspective, this is one of the key improvements on the SEP. The 2nd Gen FLIR is a fully integrated engagement-sighting system designed to provide the gunner and tank commander with significantly improved day and night target acquisition and engagement capability. This system allows 70% better acquisition, 45% quicker firing and greater accuracy. In addition, a gain of 30% greater range for target acquisition and identification will increase lethality and lessen fratricide. The Commander’s Independent Thermal Viewer (CITV) provides a hunter killer capability. The 2nd GEN FLIR is a variable power sighting system ranging from 3 or 6 power (wide field of view) for target acquisition and 13, 25 or 50 power (narrow field of view) for engaging targets at appropriate range.

From an article in ARMOR Jan-Feb 1998:

Quote[/b] ]Recognizing the skills necessary to fight the M1A2 tank only magnifies the complexity of these manning moves. This tank is more like an F-16 than an M1A1 and, just as pilots require consistent flight time to remain current, M1A2 tank crewmen require regular and redundant training on the many systems in the tank.

[NonWonderDog 0]

Question to NWD:

Why do you use this Hexagon laser setup in MBTELRF.sqf? Maybe i dont get it, but why 7 Laserbeams in this ? I can understand the whole trigo stuff to get trunnion correction and such but i dont understand why its better than one beam. ??

This is to simulate laser dispersion and allow the FIRST/LAST laser logic to work.  It's most important for the T-72, as the laser in the TPD-K1 has that ridiculous 2 mil dispersion, but the 0.75 mil dispersion of the M1A1's MBTELRF isn't insignificant.  If you're firing at a target behind trees, for instance, it makes a difference.  More laser projectiles would be better, to get better sampling, but seven is good enough most of the time and doesn't seem to have any noticeable impact on performance.  (Then again, my canister shells don't have much impact on my performance either, and there are 1150 projectiles there generated with a Gaussian RNG.  I haven't tried them online, though, since I suspect that they would flood the connection and cause bad things to happen.)

The laser fills the entire circle in the middle of the reticle, and I wanted to simulate that.  If you want to test it out, you can place a target so that it fills half the circle and lase.  You'll get the range to the ground behind the target and a bar will be displayed over the range signifying multiple returns.  Then switch the laser logic to "FIRST" and lase again.  This time you'll get the distance to the target.  (I think that you shouldn't actually need to lase a second time to get the distance to the target in the second case, though, since I believe that the computer keeps track of both the first and last return regardless of the setting.  All you should have to do is change the range logic.  My code doesn't currently do this, but it should be simple enough to modify it so that it does.)

If there's any way to do it, it would be very nice if the laser projectiles were stopped by leaves and foliage, and if they had a random chance of being stopped by smoke.  As it is they're just hitscan bullets that cause no damage (and I still have no idea if they alert the AI).  Before I wrote the current system, I tried to use a hidden laser designator that was fired by the script.  There was just no way to reliably control the designator, though, and there isn't any easy way to simulate laser dispersion and return logic with lasertargets, either.

We have to take away the mouse control over turret and gun. The turret and gun should get slewed by user animations powered by a looping script, which provide the gyrosimulation as well. Only this way we will also have the possibility to add the gunner override for commanders seat later on. For manual mode there will be keyeventhandlers catching the necessary keymoves when in manual mode (each hit on the key is like 0.1mil turret movement hehehe... *crank*crank*crank*... ).

Except for turned out and using the mounted mg, there will be no (direct) mouse input for the gunner. The mouse will still move its turret/barrel axises, but they arent linked to any visible/usable selections (i.e. a "invisible" turret/gun). Those values will be requested/send to a looping script which adjusts and sends those values in regards to the gunners view and the calculated firing solution to the "real" visible turret/gun selections. This way its very simple to control the turret/gun selection how we want it to and when, i.e. adding sway while driving etc...

I don't think this can be done in any satisfactory way.  First, scripted animations always move at a preset speed with no damping.  Since there's no way to change animation speed through scripting, the animations will jerk around and be almost unusable for fine aiming.  The only way around this would be to make 10 or so different animations for each axis and interpolate between them in script, and that would be so script heavy and would drain so much performance that it would be just as bad.  

Second, the AI will throw fits if you do this.  They probably wouldn't be able to use the main gun at all.  I'm almost certain that the AI uses the gun axes for aiming, and not the turret and gun animation states, and the AI would probably go into some kind of feedback loop if you were constantly changing the gun axis direction in script.

[Nowyoudie 0]

I didn't play with this addon much, but its good to see you around again.

[Moggy 0]

Deleted

[DarkSoul 0]

hi nwd nice to see you back

are you going to release new version from this addon ? or will you pass this addon for others to do ?

[manzilla 1]

hi nwd nice to see you back  

are you going to release new version from this addon ? or will you pass this addon for others to do ?

Just read his posts, it's pretty obvious what's going on.

Or just read this line:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">Yeah, I haven't been around here for a while, and I haven't done much of any work on this in the interim. I fully support any attempt to turn this into a community project.

[Gedis 0]

as i remember, someone asked for TPN-3N sight, so here it is:

TPN-3N

btw, i have more soviet/russian tank stuff, if what just PM me.

[NonWonderDog 0]

That's the TPN3-49 reticle picture from the T-72A manual I have, and I have a bit more documentation on it in that manual.  I don't have any photos, though, and photos would be very useful here.  

The aiming mark and range scales in this sight are projected onto a fixed prism located at the top of the periscope.  The range scales are cut into a disk that sits in front of the projection lamp, and this disk spins to three different settings for the three different weapon combinations (APFSDS/7.62, HEAT-FS/7.62, HEF-FS/7.62).  The aiming chevron, windage marks, and the two range bugs are cut into another disk, and this disk is moved by the range wheel to move the aiming mark up and down in the sight, just like with the TPD-K1 reticle currently in the mod.

All the illustrations I've seen of this sight's reticle, even the color illustrations, show a black etched reticle.  The illustrations are wrong.  There is no etched reticle, and I have the exploded diagram to prove it.

There's no laser rangefinder in the sight, either, but it might be able to set the range automatically based on input from the TPD-K1 rangefinder.  I'm not sure at all on that, though, and I don't have time to try to decipher that chapter of the manual right now.  There doesn't appear to be any laser aiming mark in the reticle, though, so you'd probably have to use the day sight if you wanted to use the laser rangefinder in any case.  (That brings up another point: job #1 is probably to add proper nighttime illumination to the TPD-K1 reticle.  It shouldn't be hard to do, but it needs to be done. Someone fix the alpha channel on the ready light, too; it's WAY brighter than I intended, and I forgot to fix it before release.)

[stridev 0]

is it possible to use the Tank FCS without the GLTD addon? The FCS doesn't seem to work without it, and although I like the GLTD, it gives me a 15-20 second computer freeze when I mark a target.

[PhilippRauch 0]

I remember some older tanks dont use laser for rangefinding. They used those (i dont know the english term) 'wideeyed' periscope things where the distance is calculated by overlapping those converging(?right term?) sightpictures with a calibrated scale or so... Leo 1 did so...

OFFTOPIC:

Q saw you post at old ACE Forums, sorry i didnt answer timely, you can still contact me via this forum, although i just registered on the new ACE Forums... peace!

[AKM 0]

Rauch: You're talking about a coincidence rangefinder. They were in vogue from 1942-1975, thereabouts.

[PhilippRauch 0]

coincidence... hehe very pictoral term, easy to remember .. i like it thanks

[kuIoodporny 45]

To NonWonderDog - I hope You're still in charge there. Can I put there my little improved here and there (I made scripts MP compatible - and I'm enjoying it in almost every MP game since December), but lacking in some features (M1A1's commander's M2, singular shells, plus other minor issues) modification using Your Tank FCS 0.2?

Edited April 10, 2009 by zGuba

[colligpip 0]

hey zguba do you have this mp version of tank optics working in your warfare mission would be great if you did.

Coould i have a copy of you MP version I have wanted to use this for ages in MP

[Moggy 0]

Oooh yes please zGuba, I hope NWD gives you permission. I'd love to be able to use the FCS online.

[NonWonderDog 0]

Sure, go ahead. I'm not likely to release anything more on this, so consider everything in this mod free for community use.

[PhilippRauch 0]

yeeha! let the scriptfeast begin! Thanks NWD for this groundbreaking work and his generosity!:cc: Thanks mate!

[mr.g-c 6]

Now i really looking forward to the future of this system..... personally i would love to have some laser-aiming help in ACE :p :cool::D

[manzilla 1]

Now i really looking forward to the future of this system..... personally i would love to have some laser-aiming help in ACE :p :cool::D

No doubt. This is one of the best pieces of content, no question about it. I rarely ever play gunner position anymore, only occasionally in that bad ass ACE TUSK. Damn... just imagine the fun with a fully compliant and expanded NWD FCS.

A big fat thank you to NonWonderDog for all the work up until this point. You are truly an ArmA god. That goes for all your stuff as well. FCS, Ballistics, ScopeFix, etc. should be some of the first inductees into the ArmA AddOns/Mods Hall of Fame, if there ever be one. This s@$t is epic work!

[kuIoodporny 45]

Sure, go ahead. I'm not likely to release anything more on this, so consider everything in this mod free for community use.

So do I... thanks!!!

zTanks Merge Release Candidate 6

Remember that it's Release Candidate version. Addons are unsigned and there are features to be discussed. For example:

- what to do with M1A1 model? (Mateck, to do ciebie!)

- how to improve special effects?

I'm collecting list of glitches/issues/bugs and I'll try to address them sooner or later.

[tuocs 10]

Anyone having this issue or know how to fix it?

file nwd_tankmodels\config.cpp, line1595:/CfgModels/: Missing '}'

[jasonnoguchi 11]

This is an ArmA1 mod, not an ArmA2 mod, right? You should not be able to use it directly in ArmA2...

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

posted for Arma, otherwise you would see it in the Arma 2 section

[colligpip 0]

can we have this in arma 2 will it work? i used to play this all the time.

[dwringer 45]

Has anybody recently looked into adapting the fire control system from this mod into Arma2/OA? I'm not sure what exactly would go into doing something like that, but I'd imagine it would be possible (even if one were to stop short of converting any of the other modifications contained in this addon). This was probably my favorite mod from ArmA, and it would breathe so much more life into Arma 2.