Lawsuit against cheating scum?

[Doolittle 0]

What if we all went on YouTube and complained about the videos the bad guys show...of them harassing others? Isn't that evidence by their own hand? Like videos people post of them trashing homes & property for their friends to see & then the police come after them because of the video?

I can't find an e-mail for YouTube staff though.

[Skraeling 0]

Hi,

I come back to forum to say I am pretty much done with game from the hacksers.

I read this thead and see legal action proposed... btu I don't see how.

Tha law you write says "with intent to secure access to any program or data held "

they secure no access do they? Am I infected from them?

I hope BI put them in jail soon.

[froggyluv 2136]

@TJ72

You make very valid points. No one here is saying BIS shouldn't do more to protect the server - were saying in conjuction with that, hit those girls on the legal front as well. Then we'll have the best of both worlds, a strong defense with a counter-attack.

[Dwarden 1125]

well let me put this up ...

house with security doors, using titanium frame with space level of materials and new windows with unbreakable glass and locking system using DNA scanner

yet someone dig 2km tunel to break concrete into garage under house

so i'm going to blame the house construction and builders and me for not protecting it enough

instead of hunting criminal who done it

and now imagine that the house is just from wood, with just some easy lock and normal breakable glass ...

hell even unlocked house gives You no right to go in and steal stuff there

it's always easy to say that 'the roots of problem' was weak protection but what protection is enough ...

[urbanwarrior 0]

it's always easy to say that 'the roots of problem' was weak protection but what protection is enough ...

anything would be better than what we have now

[froggyluv 2136]

What if we all went on YouTube and complained about the videos the bad guys show...of them harassing others? Isn't that evidence by their own hand? Like videos people post of them trashing homes & property for their friends to see & then the police come after them because of the video?

I can't find an e-mail for YouTube staff though.

they only seem to have a Copyright Complaint Address' but i'll report there just the same

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Ok now youve just lost me.

Were not talking about the security of the systems here.

As far as I know they arent hacking into any servers.

Using your analogy.

They are never entering your home.

They are sending you fruequent mail (packets)  that you go and collect, containing information of their activities at uh say your public swimming pool. Well the public swimming pool allows people to bring their own toys/floatation devices. So they bring a JetSki. The pool doesnt destriminate on what floatation devices they can and cannot have, and they let them in.

Now they are making a mess in the water and disturbing everyone, but the pools policy is that everything is allowed.

... uhhh nvm...

They are doing 2 different things to my knowledge.

1) Easy one to say it isnt illegal. Memory hacks or directx hacks like ammo/speed/wallhack/chams.

These are all legal.

2) Scripts  now this should be pretty simple, but the power given to the client in servers is pretty extreme. Which is what they can cause so much havok with.

Spawning mass objects disabling input, probably eventually crashing servers by doing some of these things.

But its still scripts that the software allows to run freely, and crashing caused by bugs in that software. (My belief is the crashing is caused by game bugs (or more specificly memory leaks and errors that build up and cause problems over time also possibly scripting bugs, not directly with some crashing program)

So the problem becomes are the legally liable for the faults in this software? I dont believe they could be.

3) Harassment I dont know of any precidence for harassment in a game server to be illegal. I dont know, but this just doesnt seem like it would get threw the whole legal process.

Unless they were attacks like DDoSing /ect.

[hoz 0]

Walker Please don't spam the topic with the same text over and over again. There is no need for that constant spamming.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Understood Hoz

In reply to oChaos.DNJ

Sending data to a server designed to reduce server usability or take down the server is a crime. It says so in black and white in the laws which I have quoted throughout.

Why else are the police investigating it?

Why else have police given it a case number?

Kind Regards walker

[Dwarden 1125]

chaos it don't matter u claim they don't do it server side

that's matter for experts to say in such law case ...

no point to argue about it here ...

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Hi all

Understood Hoz

In reply to oChaos.DNJ

Sending data to a server designed to to reduce server usability or take down the server is a crime. It says so in black and white in the laws which I have quoted throughout.

Why else are the police investigating it?

Why else have police given it a case number?

Kind Regards walker

Youve already proven you dont understand those laws.

They are in reference to security hacking. DDoSing, Trojans, forceabliy gaining access to the server.

Not spawn a bunch of objects on a online game that lets you do it. Or the server crashing do to bugs in its own coding.(My belief)

If they took the case, 1) They investigate all claims. 2) The issue was misrepresented to them and they believe its more then there actually is.

I dont believe its going to go anywhere, but go ahead keep trying.

The closest I believe they have come to breaking the law, is on the piracy issue. But they are well aware of this and try to take pre-cautions as to not violate the law. Not sure if what they have done is within the law, but I guess someone with more knowledge of it could take a look at it.

[BLSmith2112 0]

There is a fine line between "cheating".

Listen, if you say: "He's using unlimited ammo. That's not fair."

Once a judge hears that, your case will be thrown out and you'll be the idiot because accusations like that have no legal standing.

If you say: "These people are initiating files that crash our servers, and cause downtime that costs us money".

That has legal standing. The fact is, you cannot simply say someone is cheating and prosecute them. You need some real world effects and evidence. By real world, of course I mean money. Virtual effects by which you are teamkilled, has no legal standing. And is impossible (Except for admins) for anyone to control. Simply put: The FBI will not be watching all the games played online. If you are playing a deathmatch and you are killed, someone could roar out "teamkiller".. however, that is the point of the game.. and would take you to court. They would be laughed at. The game is setup by the mission makers and thus the "rules" for each game type is determined by the creator. If these "rules" are broken, the only one to enforce these rules are the admins, not the law.

However, if you purchase a player slot in a server, even though its only a little bit of money (Sometimes 2 dollars per slot in some instances), you are still losing money if they disable user input, or cause you to crash. It could be 3 million dollars per slot and would stand the same in court. The fact is: Money is being lost.

Please make that distinguishment before saying that this is "pointless".

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

But the problem is these commands were put in the game to be used and not only to be able to be used just by the server, but by the client as well. They didnt create them, just are just using them. Then your allowing them to run these scripts on your server. I believe theres settings which prevents them from joining with the unreconized pbo. I know I cant even get into the UK jack server with non-malious mods in the addons folder that arent even active to do anything.

and I guess they would argue that, your slot is still there and people can join, they are just issuing a command thats apart of the game that prevents them from doing anything.

As for the crashing part, I believe they would argue, they are not responcible for a flaw in the softwares coding which can cause the game to crash.....

[NeMeSiS 11]

But the problem is these commands were put in the game to be used and not only to be able to be used just by the server, but by the client as well. They didnt create them, just are just using them. Then your allowing them to run these scripts on your server.

Thats like saying its legal to steal a car when its not locked, after all 'anyone could get in'.

Quote[/b] ]As for the crashing part, I believe they would argue, they are not responcible for a flaw in the softwares coding which can cause the game to crash.....

Doing it accidentally is not the same as crashing a server on purpose using some known bug.

[DBO_ 0]

Quote[/b] ]As for the crashing part, I believe they would argue, they are not responcible for a flaw in the softwares coding which can cause the game to crash.

But they are responsible for the id changer that allows people that have been banned for crashing servers to return andcrash servers again and again

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

But the problem is these commands were put in the game to be used and not only to be able to be used just by the server, but by the client as well. They didnt create them, just are just using them. Then your allowing them to run these scripts on your server. I believe theres settings which prevents them from joining with the unreconized pbo. I know I cant even get into the UK jack server with non-malious mods in the addons folder that arent even active to do anything.

and I guess they would argue that, your slot is still there and people can join, they are just issuing a command thats apart  of the game that prevents them from doing anything.

Thats like saying its legal to steal a car when its not locked, after all 'anyone could get in'.

Quote[/b] ]As for the crashing part, I believe they would argue, they are not responcible for a flaw in the softwares coding which can cause the game to crash.....

Doing it accidentally is not the same as crashing a server on purpose using some known bug.

Its not the same, since they arent stealing anything...

Its like selling a car and handing them the keys telling them theres money in the glove box but that they shouldnt open it.

But I dont know that they are intentionally crashing it with some known bug. Or they are even directly behind the crashes.

I know before they released their cheat scripts and mostly after XAM1.3 was released servers began crashing. Crashing when there was no apparant cheating or script using going on before hand.

Quote[/b] ]But they are responsible for the id changer that allows people that have been banned for crashing servers to return andcrash servers again and again

I havent downloaded the ID changer but from what I read and what I believe it does is....

It generates the hash for a cd-key thats in your registry. Now whats tricky about this is. You could use this for perfectly legal CD-keys you bought so you dont have to reinstall the game. We all know this is not what they are using it for, but legally speaking since it doesnt include the keys with it, its not illegal.

They do provide a offsite link to a keygen though... Which I dont think qualifys as breaking the law.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Its not the same, since they arent stealing anything...

Well i didnt mean the stealing part, i ment the 'just doing it because its possible' part. (But my example was rather confusing )

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Well i can say this much...

If that happens what happend just the other night

i WILL press charges...They almost burned my set.

They blocked my input so i had to reset pc with

the emergency button. If i didnt my card would

have burned, i had like 2 errorbeeps from my

graphicscard. STUPID FUCKERS...

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Dude they didnt and cant cause your card to burn or almost burn. That would be a problem with your hardware, and/or cooling of it.

If they disable your input. ALT+TAB and close the process.

ALT+F4 might just close the program as well..

[DBO_ 0]

Quote[/b] ]It generates the hash for a cd-key thats in your registry. Now whats tricky about this is. You could use this for perfectly legal CD-keys you bought so you dont have to reinstall the game. We all know this is not what they are using it for, but legally speaking since it doesnt include the keys with it, its not illegal.

Sorry but you dont seem to be party to all the facts . if that exe was sitting in the street and i picked it up then used it , then your post is perfectly true . but if that exe is sitting in a shop window with a massive board nest to it saying "have you been banned ?" , try this it will get you back into the server .

again this thread is here to produce that proof , the connection and endorsement is already there for all to see, the difficult part is to prove the server crash and gather the ip dress under different ids .

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Well if what you say is true. Wouldnt BIS have to be involved and pretty much initiate this lawsuit since it would turn to piracy of their software.....

[DBO_ 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well if what you say is true. Wouldnt BIS have to be involved and pretty much initiate this lawsuit since it would turn to piracy of their software.

No because they do not run the servers which are being crashed.

[TrunkzJr 0]

Is it just me or is oChaos.DNJ trying too hard to defend what their doing?

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

But we werent talking about the servers being crashed. Just the use of a key changer.

It doesnt matter if the key changer allows them to come back after being banned theres no garentee that one person only gets one CD-Key therefor one ID, unless it has to do with piracy. Which is where BIS would have to come it.

and Im still not convinced they are directly crashing or supporting the crashing of servers.

Quote[/b] ]Is it just me or is oChaos.DNJ trying too hard to defend what their doing?

No ones trying to defend them. Just defending what I believe to be the truth and the situation. Im not going to jump to conclusions and make huge leeps and assumptions based on practicly nothing.

In conclusion. Im not going to support any action/allegations which I think is false/untrue.

If you actually want to do something about them, you better have your facts straight.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Dude they didnt and cant cause your card to burn or almost burn. That would be a problem with your hardware, and/or cooling of it.

If they disable your input. ALT+TAB and close the process.

ALT+F4 might just close the program as well..

Ok...

The Esc didnt work...

The Alt+Tab didnt work...

The Alt+ctrl+del didnt work...

I didn try Alt+F4...Sorry...Should have thought of that

when my Card goes beep..

And there is no problem whatsoever when i play

on a normal day..Whitout these punks throwing

GBU´s like in a million and stashing buildings in

huge towers just to blow em down..