AI = joke

[jolulure 0]

Hi there!

I am waiting to buya new pc prior to buying this game, but today afternoon I have changed my mind. I dont have a stable internet connection, that's why I would buy this game mainly for the SP.

This is what ive seen at youtube

Is this a joke?? i mean, AI is more stupid than ever!! how come their anormal behaviour?? They dont seem to act as a group, but as individual soldiers, and who are deaf dumb and blind.

Hope theres and error

[Mr_Tea 0]

With what version of Arma was the video made of, 1.0?

The AI is getting better with every patch.

[jolulure 0]

wow, that was quite a quick reply!

actually, i dont have a PC powerful enough to run the game, so im just watching on youtube. anyway, there will have to be a huuuuuuuuge improve in AI in order to get it to the Standard Level.

its so stupid!

[dmarkwick 261]

You're not buying the game because of a video you saw on youtube?

*shrug*

Big deal.

[Mr_Tea 0]

The video can be made with Arma 1.0, now in Arma 1.07 the AI is much better.

Anyone can install a game without patches, make a video for youtube to show how stupid the games AI was.

The version number of the game should be posted in the video info text.

[jolulure 0]

but is it acceptable or just better?

It is comparable to Brothers in arms IA?

[Arrowhead 0]

You've loss interest in the game because of that?

pfft, it's your loss pal...

[sniper pilot 36]

You've loss interest in the game because of that?

pfft, it's your loss pal...

exactly, no use wasting my time, trying to convince you to buy it.

[Dallas 9]

Didn't see any outragiously stupid behaviour from the AIs. However I think you should expand youryoutube scourses, to include other videos, then those of ny50hipe. Watching his dedicated videos, left me feeling smarter than average.

[celery 8]

I wouldn't ever gotten ArmA if I was looking for AI-based entertainment, namely singleplayer or hybrid SP (shoot AI online). The game is good for human vs human combat though.

[sudayev 27]

Quote[/b] ]I am waiting to buya new pc prior to buying this game, but today afternoon I have changed my mind.

Wise choice sir, wise choice.

Go through some bug reports and try the demo and you will be sure that this game aint worth even penny. If you like the eye-candies ...? Its up to you dude.

[jolulure 0]

ok. Thanks, pleayse dont be so pesimistic.

i repeat i have no STABLE INTERNET CONNECTION. no way to make it stable because i live in the countryside (spain)

then here is the conclusion:

WOULD YOU BUY THE GAME IF IT DIDNT HAVE MULTIPLAYER MODE?

[celery 8]

WOULD YOU BUY THE GAME IF IT DIDNT HAVE MULTIPLAYER MODE?

In my opinion it would be a waste of time.

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]will have to be a huuuuuuuuge improve in AI in order to get it to the Standard Level.

Wow we have an Artificial Intelligence expert on the forums. So what is the "standard level" for AI that have to navigate 40km square terrain, fly all types of aircraft, drive wheeled and tracked vehicles. Uses multiple weapon types, exists in both safe and combat environments....The list goes on.

No doubt you will tells us that PAC Man can navigate a maze without any problems so Arma soldiers should to

Even the US Army does not have fully autonomous vehicles, never mind robot soldiers. The nearest I've seen is a semi-autonomous experimental vehicle. Most of the time it's operated by a human. When it isn't it looks just like Arma AI. It stops and starts as it analyses the terrain, and trys to work out the best possible route. As opposed to a human being who can take one look at a situation and come to an almost instant decision.

I had to laugh at this comment on YouTube:

Quote[/b] ]Many ppl claims "it's potential" - wrong. Script-able means easily predictable, more slow and robotic AI after all.

Talk about missing the point. What on earth does he think other computer games use, little tiny men operating the soldiers from within his PC?

[Gux 0]

WOULD YOU BUY THE GAME IF IT DIDNT HAVE MULTIPLAYER MODE?

If the game just had the mission editor I still would have bought it. That's always been the biggest draw for me, just making little missions that play out differently every time.

[sudayev 27]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (jolulure @ May 16 2007,20:36)

WOULD YOU BUY THE GAME IF IT DIDNT HAVE MULTIPLAYER MODE?

In my opinion it would be a waste of time.

Forget about singleplayer mode, it`s so lame. I`d wait with the purchase untill the relase of some kind realism patch (ex. WGL) dedicated for Arma.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

but is it acceptable or just better?

It is comparable to Brothers in arms IA?

You want to compare AI of games that rely on complete scripting (Brothers in Arms, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, ANYTHING) with a game that can run on NO scripting, and then complain that the non-scripted AI doesn't perfectly mimic the survival skills of __?

Seriously now, there is no comparison. How big are the levels of Brothers in Arms compared to the entire islands in Flashpoint or ArmA? Where is the sandbox mission editor for BiA? For ArmA, you can just open the editor, place a guy give him a move waypoint and place another guy and they'll fight it out. If you are able to script, you can script quite a few possibilites, especially with an engine as open as this one too.

Let's see you guys take all the scripting out of brothers in arms or whatever game, then we'll see how much you like the AI then.

[jolulure 0]

ok, but they know how to flank, and get away from firepower. In these videos, it seems that they dont know how to keep themselves alive!

im not critisicing! just giving my IMHO

[johnwilso007 0]

i was impressed with the AI on a mission that i made as they followed me to a boat after i destroyed several enemy targets. i didnt even tell them to follow me.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Funny someone mentions BiA, i reinstalled BiA a few days ago to look for some AI ideas which would be convertable to ArmA.

I didnt find anything that would really work in the game, in ArmA the bullet doesnt magically fly the other way because someone is shooting at you. That makes running from cover* to cover very dangerous in ArmA (almost useless, also because the enviroment in ArmA doesnt stop behind that little fence, you can take any path and use 100000 different ways to flank the enemy, while in BiA you can take +-1 path to flank them, and +-1 path to storm then (in which case you always die)). I also noticed that the AI in BiA couldnt really do much besides taking cover. They didnt seem able to organize any kind of counterattack.

Its more of less the opposite of the ArmA AI. While the ArmA AI shines at attacking (preferably in a more 'open' enviroment), but it cannot set up a proper defence. In BiA the AI can only hide behind behind cover (and move to other cover once in a while) but cannot really do anything to counter it except returning fire (in small, locked enviroments, as BiA in extremely linear compared to ArmA).

*Using Seconds suppresion scripts the AI does act quite nice when they are under fire, and at least attempt to take cover and break their formations. (Although they also do that when you give them a proper waypoint (Hold, Guard, Sentry, ..))

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

ok, but they know how to flank, and get away from firepower. In these videos, it seems that they dont know how to keep themselves alive!

im not critisicing! just giving my IMHO

Let's use BiA for a comparison. Everytime I play that game, the enemy reacts exactly the same way. If I move to position A, they always move to position B when they might have options for a Positions C or D, both of which would be better.

In ArmA,. the AI *does* flank and move out of direct fire. Urban areas are a challenge for their pathing because the AI has to interpret how to move around objects. A program doesn't see a building, it sees an object, and it has to do various things to interpret how to interact with that object.

Further, if using the example from BiA, the ArmA AI will react to you when you go to Position A. Depending on any number of things, they may charge straight at you and overwhelm you, they may move to any other position and fire at you, one group may fire and another group may flank you, or they might simply lob some greandes at you and continue about their way.

ArmA Ai has possibilities, the games you're comparing it to do not, every level is set-piece designed and the AI for that level is specifically crafted to use the level in the way it was intended. The AI begins and ends with the player and the player's proximity to triggers, that's it.

ArmA isn't limited to that.

one other thing to consider, the individual who made those videos did so with an express agenda. Maybe, like you, he doesn't understand the difference between scripting and dynamic AI. Actually, I know he doesn't because if you read his little post in the video you linked to, he isn't quite sure what he's saying. He just knows that something doesn't work the way it did in kinder, simpler, and more forgiving games.

In short, the AI sucks for him because he sucks and can't figure out how to use it.

[Stendac 0]

I wouldn't base my opinion on the AI on this one video.

It's only one example and what bothers me is that we can't really see what the AI soldiers are fighting and where their opposition is located. More testing needed.

[4 IN 1 0]

a more advanced AI system need a more advanced scripting skill, as in ArmA AI needs to handle more info then it used to in FP, and adject behavior more dynamicly

thats also why most of the total conv. mods in OFP didnt work perfectly in old mission made without those mods

[Chris Death 0]

I'd like to add:

If you would play even that mission from the video, facing those stupid looking ai's from that video on even same settings this "video artis" used (who knows how he did set

up the ai skills in options btw), you wouldn't notice their

stupid behaviour.

You would just run for cover not trying the risk to find out

wether they keeping in formation or not.

OFP's ai did sometimes look very very same (if set up wrong)

but during a fight this was always hardly noticeable since

you've been busy saving your b*tt.

Even if you only got singleplayer, it's worth it.

Those in this thread who suggested not to buy it (and i mean those in this one thread here), only look like the typical

'ArmA-haters' who can't get it to work right or who probably

got the bad luck to have the wrong hardware even if it should

be decent enough (nothing new in computer gaming world btw). But they didn't even mention any solid reason why

you shouldn't get the game.

~S~ CD