Marek's Comment on Tools...

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

If you go and read the Full ArmedAssault Article its interesting but the bit that surprises me is:

Quote[/b] ]Armed Assault.info : We fully understand what's to be done to release all the tools the community is waitng for. Nevertheless, could you tell us which one is to be released first?

Marek Spanel : (after having glanced at my long list) First one, will be TexView2, a texture viewer and conversion toll, then a binarizing tool for ArmA. Now, we are looking after patch 1.05 release at the end of this month and we are working for a US release in May, the 1st. Afterwards we will have more time to work on tools. Patch 1.05 is an important release, it will feature new improvements such as the ability for Harrier to do vertical take off and landing or for players to hide in grass.

Am I the only one that is totally dumbfounded by the logic of releasing all the other tools before releasing Oxygen 2?

I realise that they are perhaps “easy hitsâ€, being small scale apps that are easily tested and released, but considering all the 3rd part tools left over from OFP and the new tools released by Kegety etc why do we need them?  Surely the community’s priority will be the new O2 and not some superfluous little apps?  The binarising tools are simply pointless given we don’t have anything to binarise since we can’t edit models without O2!

Anyone else equally confused?

[deanosbeano 0]

The only tool needed right now imo is visitor 3 . there are the tools

like he says that are sufficient to port most addons , ok its a masssive work around and ideally we would like all the tools.

But for me the fact that 6 month a go we were playing some fantastic afghanistan and iraqi missions in ofp Dynamic too, that simply wont convert to sahrani because of the terrain etc (given we were playing on atual ported dems of kabul and other middle east places).

I think the immersion factor is whats lacking and is really needed for arma and a community wrp or visitor 3 would enhance it 5 fold.

we can already unbin and tex view so no real need for those.

so i reckon oxygen and visitor 3 is a must.

btw if the rumours of the beta testers are true, i wont bother with anything. i hate it when games get sucked backwards at the cost of forward thinikng people, i have already seen alot of talented people leave, because of a new elitist attitude . I fear if it gets any worse i shall join them.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

... btw if the rumours of the beta testers are true, i wont bother with anything. i hate it when games get sucked backwards at the cost of forward thinikng people, i have already seen alot of talented people leave, because of a new elitist attitude . I fear if it gets any worse i shall join them.

Having seen the 'evidence' of these beta testers first hand I think i may be joining you.

[Freshman 0]

I really don't understand why these tools aren't finished yet. This is not a reproach but how did BIS develop ArmA?

With a Hex editor?

[Jackal326 1181]

With CZECH language tools most likely. Thats what held up the release of Oxygen for OFP, it was entirely in CZECH. I remember the private BETA tests of Oxygen, where some of the functions were still in CZECH.

[JdB 151]

O2 Full was alot more powerfull. Imo BIS was too protective of even the O2 Lite version (only licensing it to a very limited number of people initially and removing parts of the program compared to Full). I feel they are making the same mistakes all over again. Sure, I fully understand that BIS wants to keep some things a corporate secret, as is their right, but holding back/delaying tools when the OFP community survived this long DUE to mod/addonmaking is not smart at all.

Also, where is the logic of releasing a binarizer first before the actual modelling application...

@Jackal: It's not like it used to be, plenty of BIS employees do not speak Czech/not enough (working in a foreign language can be confusing), from what I heard large parts of ArmA were done in other applications such as 3DS MAX and alike.

[EricM 0]

You are beginning to sound quite cryptic :

" Having seen the 'evidence' of these beta testers first hand I think i may be joining you."

What are you guys talking about ?

anyway...

It's too bad the VTOL didn't make it in the retail version, but nice to see it coming anyway.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

With CZECH language tools most likely. Thats what held up the release of Oxygen for OFP, it was entirely in CZECH. I remember the private BETA tests of Oxygen, where some of the functions were still in CZECH.

I know thats not really an issue this time...  There are enough people from this community now working or testing for BIS for things to leak out.  There is an english language version of Oxygen2 out there.  The issue just seems to be will we get O2 or O2lite again, if anything i suspect that the reason for the delay is the removal of the 'advanced' features form O2 for release to use mere mortals.  

[Jackal326 1181]

I don't see the problem in that. O2 Lite has served me well for what, three and a half years now? Its not like we need the 'Extrude' function from Full O2 anyway...I don't even know what that does, let alone feel the need to shout from the roof-tops about not having it...

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Your beginning to sound quite cryptic :

" Having seen the 'evidence' of these beta testers first hand I think i may be joining you."

This morning there was a video released onto Youtube of some people's work fully functioning in ArmA and by that I mean all the animations working properly.

Apparently there are also vids & screenshots of stuff not in the retail game appearing some forums and IRC.

I don't see the problem in that. O2 Lite has served me well for what, three and a half years now? Its not like we need the 'Extrude' function from Full O2 anyway...I don't even know what that does, let alone feel the need to shout from the roof-tops about not having it...

Im not bothered about getting the "advanced" gadgets either.  Im only questioning why O2: Community Edition(?) wasnt given a much higher priority in the release schedule?

[EricM 0]

Given there are very good FREE modeling, texturing, animation package out there on the market (take Wings or Blender for instance), while many serious addon makers are proficient in Max/Maya/XSI/Lightwave or C4D, it may be more simple to just release a model converter, no (as a plugin, or stand alone) ?

For the world editor, that's a different matter...

[JdB 151]

Yes...the plugin option....was mentioned by Placebo at one point. Never heard anything about it after that though...

[Gux 0]

Given there are very good FREE modeling, texturing, animation package out there on the market (take Wings or Blender for instance), while many serious addon makers are proficient in Max/Maya/XSI/Lightwave or C4D, it may be more simple to just release a model converter, no (as a plugin, or stand alone) ?

For the world editor, that's a different matter...

I thought Max exporters were confirmed?

I hope the needed O2 usage will minimal. I really want a good workflow if I'm to mod for a game. The amount of proprietary hoops you have to jump through really slows down the process.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Given there are very good FREE modeling, texturing, animation package out there on the market (take Wings or Blender for instance), while many serious addon makers are proficient in Max/Maya/XSI/Lightwave or C4D, it may be more simple to just release a model converter, no (as a plugin, or stand alone) ?

For the world editor, that's a different matter...

There are some nice tools out there but they dont support the lods nor the named selctions and properties that ArmA needs do they?

[MehMan 0]

I thought Max exporters were confirmed?

Yep, I heard that max scripts are going to be released. At least that's what I heard the last time I asked, if BIS is keeping up to that statement is another thing.

I am quite disapointed by the fact that the tools are going to be released so late, I was hoping we were going to get at least some modeling tools to help us import things into ArmA, but it seems that we're going to have to wait till may for that. Grrrr. And why binarize of all things? And texview?

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Armed Assault.info : Some people are complaining about the campaign to be not as elaborate as OFP campaign was ...

Marek Spanel : Yes, it' real, we have a campaign with a military point of view, not a gaming one, we know it. While developping the game we have to make choices, we have chosen to work on the core of the game itself, the engine is really a new engine!

----

Rofl - This made me grin a bit for myself... Isn't this the quite oppocite? The campaign in ArmA is so imprecise and unrealistic from a military point of view.... Hmm, I might have misunderstood what he said - or?

[NeMeSiS 11]

Rofl - This made me grin a bit for myself... Isn't this the quite oppocite? The campaign in ArmA is so imprecise and unrealistic from a military point of view.... Hmm, I might have misunderstood what he said - or?

I guess he was talking about the lack of characters/story/etc...

But still, like you said, even from a military point of view the campaign just sucks..

[Mr_Tea 0]

Imho he meant, the engine was the thing that they concentrate on the most.

That was the right decision. What is the worth of a really good campaign, in a "crappy" engine?

[deanosbeano 0]

still funny tho

Very nice of him to admit it tho, some game companies will lie thru there teeth.

still all the better reason to get the visitor prog out then someone can port all the dynamic maps that were all so loved in the back end of ofp.

[NeMeSiS 11]

That was the right decision. What is the worth of a really good campaign, in a "crappy" engine?

Well to be honest, if a reviewer gives the game a 6 or a 7 based on the campaign i could understand that in a way, the engine itself is great but the missions that came with the game are just boring.

I bought a game, not an engine, if i had bought an engine i would have had full acces to it and could edit it.

The community really saves this game and IMO it shouldnt be the case, if BI didnt have the name/fame it got after OFP then this game would have been dropped like a brick, because then there would have been no community.

(Ok, they said they worked mostly on the engine and IMO this is one of the best engines ever made, but still..)

[Mr_Tea 0]

There are tons of OFP/RES islands, i`d love to see in Arma.

I hope it will not need too much work, to convert the islands to Arma compatible ones.

If Arma would have the best campaign ever in a crappy engine, we would play the game only until we completed the campaign.

Now think about what can be done with this great engine.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Now think about what can be done with this great engine.

You dont have to tell me, tell all the people who wont buy/play ArmA because it has crappy missions!

[baddo 0]

Hi,

please try to understand that the game has much higher priority than any of the development tools. If you read the interview again, there Marek Španěl clearly says what they are doing when they are not working on the development tools. The interview confirms what I said before: there is no team at BIS working only on the development tools, they are the same people who work on the game. That being the case, let them do the patches, let them release the game where they want to release it, only after that start to ask for the development tools if you didn't get them by then. There are much more people out there who want the game and the patches and don't care about any development tool and their needs has to be addressed first. If you think about it from a business point-of-view then it makes very, very much sense. You could of course try to buy the development tools from BIS and see if that speeds things up for you.

What you can do in the mean time. I am sure you can use some another modelling tool to create your models. It can even be a much better choice for many people to not try to make their models from scratch in a limited program similar to Oxygen 2 Light, as it severely lacks functionalities, like the very important "Extrude" for starters. I am sure you can start creating island addons for Armed Assault already, as creating such addons takes quite a lot of planning and designing if a better-than-low quality is desired.

Best Wishes,

Baddo.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Hi,

please try to understand that the game has much higher priority than any of the development tools. If you read the interview again, there Marek Španěl clearly says what they are doing when they are not working on the development tools. The interview confirms what I said before: there is no team at BIS working only on the development tools, they are the same people who work on the game. That being the case, let them do the patches, let them release the game where they want to release it, only after that start to ask for the development tools if you didn't get them by then. There are much more people out there who want the game and the patches and don't care about any development tool and their needs has to be addressed first. If you think about it from a business point-of-view then it makes very, very much sense. You could of course try to buy the development tools from BIS and see if that speeds things up for you.

What you can do in the mean time. I am sure you can use some another modelling tool to create your models. It can even be a much better choice for many people to not try to make their models from scratch in a limited program similar to Oxygen 2 Light, as it severely lacks functionalities, like the very important "Extrude" for starters. I am sure you can start creating island addons for Armed Assault already, as creating such addons takes quite a lot of planning and designing if a better-than-low quality is desired.

Best Wishes,

Baddo.

You've totally missed the point. Read the thread properly.

We're talking about the release schedule of the tools AFTER the game is sorted.

Its virtually pointless to release Texture tools and especially the binarise tool if we cant actually get the models in game and working. Which obvioulsy we need the O2 to do!

Having re read your post again - i now know you dont know what you are talking about. You can model what you like in Max etc but it wont let you get them in game.  You need O2 for that, yes you can use O2Lite from OFP. BUT you cant do any animations or units with it... as for Islands... ArmAs island system uses a totally different system than OFP so there is nothing anyone can do to start makign addons othe than collect dems.

So you arent exactly speaking from a highground of knowledge are you?  I appreciate what you are attempting to say but you aren't exactly understanding what others are saying are you.

[deanosbeano 0]

Hi,

please try to understand that the game has much higher priority than any of the development tools. If you read the interview again, there Marek Španěl clearly says what they are doing when they are not working on the development tools. The interview confirms what I said before: there is no team at BIS working only on the development tools, they are the same people who work on the game. That being the case, let them do the patches, let them release the game where they want to release it, only after that start to ask for the development tools if you didn't get them by then. There are much more people out there who want the game and the patches and don't care about any development tool and their needs has to be addressed first. If you think about it from a business point-of-view then it makes very, very much sense. You could of course try to buy the development tools from BIS and see if that speeds things up for you.

What you can do in the mean time. I am sure you can use some another modelling tool to create your models. It can even be a much better choice for many people to not try to make their models from scratch in a limited program similar to Oxygen 2 Light, as it severely lacks functionalities, like the very important "Extrude" for starters. I am sure you can start creating island addons for Armed Assault already, as creating such addons takes quite a lot of planning and designing if a better-than-low quality is desired.

Best Wishes,

Baddo.

I totaly disagree and find the whole thing patronising.

anybody who thinks that guba or victor and there stories or missions is what kept ofp alive and thinks william and co will do the same for arma is living on cloud cuckoo land imo.

But for the risk of sounding ungrateful i will go no further , i personally only entered this debate as its the onlymeans i have to

vent my frustration on seeing talented people twiddle ther thumbs and chomp at the bit , whilst bis try to kid themselves that its a campaign a couple of motorbikes and a su34 that will save arma from its ,poor begginings.

there is no Immersion No geographical continuation from ofp its the biggest failure of arma. i aint talking about everon and kolugiev (sp) or nogova, they went and had there time. people were playing libya afghanistan iraq and arma needs that as soon as poss.

db

out

And believe me i have full respect and gratitude for bis,, that hopefully shows in my vigourous approach to this.