should you be able to move and shoot in ARMA?

[Stealth3 0]

Ebud, can you dogfight in ARMA against human players, heck even AI?

Plane vs plane or chopper vs chopper? Because to me that is impossible.

And for player movements, I believe OFP ones were better.

Nobody complained about the OFP movements as being "unrealistic" or "too realistic".

And I don't see how they simulate movement in a "realistic" way anyway. Some things are better left off from a game. I mean why not hook your mouse up to an electrical wire and have it ZAP you everytime you get hit. Realistic eh?

[twisted 128]

@dmakatra

Again, I agree with you and over the last 5 years I've kept my big mouth shut, but when people start complaining about aspects of the game that actually set it apart from the mainstream shooters and actually petition to get them changed, I can't sit there are not voice my opinion. I'm not being elitist, I just don't agree with many of the ideas being thrown around lately and a lot of the complaints people seem to have with ARMA.

too true. ArmA takes the things that made OFP great and improves on them.

there are many other games like CS or Joint Ops or UT that'll let a person run and gun as much as they want.

ArmA is a different (read more 'realistic' game and that's what makes it stand out. in real life slow is good and keeps you alive.

[ebud 18]

Ebud, can you dogfight in ARMA against human players, heck even AI?

Plane vs plane or chopper vs chopper? Because to me that is impossible.

And for player movements, I believe OFP ones were better.

Nobody complained about the OFP movements as being "unrealistic" or "too realistic".

And I don't see how they simulate movement in a "realistic" way anyway. Some things are better left off from a game. I mean why not hook your mouse up to an electrical wire and have it ZAP you everytime you get hit. Realistic eh?

No I haven't done any dogfighting in ARMA as right now I'm only playing the campaign and editing, but I have been doing a lot of flying to just screw around. I love how the helo's fly, but I haven't spend an ungodly amount of time using them in missions or MP, so you may be right, but I will not agree that the old helo flight model was better as it was just a hovering car and I really can't comment on the old aircraft flight model because there was no purpose to flying jets in OFP with such a small viewdistance.

I had not problems with the movements of the old game, but I have no problem with the new ones either. I don't want it to feel like a rail shooter with all movements happening at speeds more fitted for a robot than a human, but I agree that there was nothing wrong with OFP movement, but this is a new movement system, now skeletons, all new animations etc, so I don't see it changing.

Edit: I'll try out all kinds of dogfighting after work in a couple of hours. I may change my tune. We'll see.

Edit2: I take that back. I did fly the single player cobra mission a few times after 1.02. In 1.01 I couldn't even play it more than a couple of minutes, but after 1.02 I won it first try with manual firing and I never crashed once.

[Stealth3 0]

Ebud, can you dogfight in ARMA against human players, heck even AI?

Plane vs plane or chopper vs chopper? Because to me that is impossible.

And for player movements, I believe OFP ones were better.

Nobody complained about the OFP movements as being "unrealistic" or "too realistic".

And I don't see how they simulate movement in a "realistic" way anyway. Some things are better left off from a game. I mean why not hook your mouse up to an electrical wire and have it ZAP you everytime you get hit. Realistic eh?

No I haven't done any dogfighting in ARMA as right now I'm only playing the campaign and editing, but I have been doing a lot of flying to just screw around. I love how the helo's fly, but I haven't spend an ungodly amount of time using them in missions or MP, so you may be right, but I will not agree that the old helo flight model was better as it was just a hovering car and I really can't comment on the old aircraft flight model because there was no purpose to flying jets in OFP with such a small viewdistance.

I had not problems with the movements of the old game, but I have no problem with the new ones either. I don't want it to feel like a rail shooter with all movements happening at speeds more fitted for a robot than a human, but I agree that there was nothing wrong with OFP movement, but this is a new movement system, now skeletons, all new animations etc, so I don't see it changing.

Edit: I'll try out all kinds of dogfighting after work in a couple of hours. I may change my tune. We'll see.

Edit2: I take that back. I did fly the single player cobra mission a few times after 1.02. In 1.01 I couldn't even play it more than a couple of minutes, but after 1.02 I won it first try with manual firing and I never crashed once.

Well flying is not the problem. I don't think anybody was complaining about flying.

Like I said in other posts, air vehicles at the moment are no more than fancy taxi's.

But I don't get it, what view distance did you use in OFP? Since your saying it wasn't good enough. Most people in arma play bellow 2000 m btw, and in ofp above 2000 m.

Quote[/b] ]Edit2: I take that back. I did fly the single player cobra mission a few times after 1.02. In 1.01 I couldn't even play it more than a couple of minutes, but after 1.02 I won it first try with manual firing and I never crashed once.

I'm assuming you completed the mission ussing FFAR right?

Now try against a flying chopper, or better yet use the harrier.

[hoak 0]

Someone should just create an OFP mod for ARMA

That would be the best thing i think!

That's already an official work in progress that BI is supporing!

But it's still based on this engine.

How is that a problem? All the features these guys want can be modded, sure some of it will be work but how bad do they really want or need it? Let them show us rather then the lazy kick and scream "Make it my way because my friends want it too!" abject swill...

Obviously we agree that these people should cool thier jets and perhaps slack their need for Rambo fantasy game-play on another game. I'm fine with them doing it here if they want to get off their lards and make an ArmA mod to do it...

But to suggest BI trash the default game-play that I and Fans like me have waited nearly a decade for, so they can have yet another spam-shooter arcade clone that's already available with over 3,0000 other paint jobs elsewhere is just ridiculous -- and makes me crankey...

[ebud 18]

Someone should just create an OFP mod for ARMA

That would be the best thing i think!

That's already an official work in progress that BI is supporing!

But it's still based on this engine.

How is that a problem?

Never said it was. I was just pointing out that just because it may be a an OFP conversion for ARMA, it may not change the core gameplay and "feel" to that of OFP. It may just be ARMA set in 1985.

[Stealth3 0]

So OFP was a RAMBO shoot them up game?

If this was OFP it wouldn't have sold 100,000 copies, let alone a million.

[hoak 0]

So OFP was a RAMBO shoot them up game?  

If this was OFP it wouldn't have sold 100,000 copies, let alone a million.

Enough of one yes; fairly realistic when it was released, sure -- but hardly as realistic as it gets or even remotely to scale; heck there are OFP mods that greatly improve its realism.

If you look at the ridiculous tear-em-up spam-action that passes for game-play that plays as CTF on OFP; since people have mastered the games features; it's as Rambo/arcade/silly as it gets, and only slowed down by the sheer size of OFP's level designs...

As far as sales go, arcade shooters have and continue to sell better then more realistic titles so I don't know what exactly it is that you believe the sales number you're citing proves.

[desertfox 2]

@ The person who made this poll

[Stealth3 0]

Counter Strike is what it is. But at least Valve got bullet penetration right. Bis couldn't even do that right in your precious "simulator".

Go find a wodden ramp and try to shoot through it. No bullets go through.

Oh, and in Counter Strike, HDR is not a joke like in this game.

[S.O.S 0]

Someone should just create an OFP mod for ARMA

That would be the best thing i think!

That's already an official work in progress that BI is supporing!

Nice, link?

[desertfox 2]

Counter Strike is what it is. But at least Valve got bullet penetration right. Bis couldn't even do that right in your precious "simulator".

Go find a wodden ramp and try to shoot through it. No bullets go through.

Oh, and in Counter Strike, HDR is not a joke like in this game.

[dm 9]

Counter Strike is what it is. But at least Valve got bullet penetration right. Bis couldn't even do that right in your precious "simulator".

Go find a wodden ramp and try to shoot through it. No bullets go through.

Oh, and in Counter Strike, HDR is not a joke like in this game.

I didn't really want to get involved in another one of Stealth3's bitchfests, but what can you do...

Actually, both bullet "penetration" and the hit detection in counterstrike are utter crap. I know, I play plenty of CS 1.6 and S (my uni even has a bunch of dedicated servers, but as usual they're full of ridiculous sound effects and "admin" scripts which no one ever uses)

Anyho, point is that CS is terrible, just as bad, if not worse than ArmA (god knows how many times i've gotten headshots by shooting my opponents in the foot)

Also, once again, comparing CS to ArmA/OFP is like comparing an inflatable ring to a superliner. They're designed for different things so why try and draw a parallel...

As for HDR, I actually think the HDR implimentation in ArmA is damn good. I actually have HDR turned off in CS:S because it pisses me off so much. Its much more "workable" in ArmA in my honest opinion.

Fin

[Goldenwings2002 0]

Absolutely Perfect. I totally agree with this picture!

[Stendac 0]

I'll start with saying that I'm a hardcore co-op-player myself, and defy any respawn game - including CTIs. HOWEVER, I just want to say to the people that are complaining that CTFers don't belong in OFP/ArmA should take a look around. You guys, as well as me, don't see the enjoyment that CTFers can get out of games like OFP or ArmA - but that doesn't remove the fact that they actually do enjoy the game. Apparently there's something there that attracts them, however we may not understand it - but it's still there.

So why bogger down on them? Aren't they sophisticated enough to be part of the community? Why should they be listened to when they are a minority? Well, I'll break something to you. YOU'RE the minority. That's why YOU play OFP/ArmA and not BF2 or CS. If nobody listened to the minorities you wouldn't have your precious OFP in the first place. EVERYONE should have the right to express their thoughts - and apparently OFP/ArmA attracts CTFers so they too should be able to put in a word amongst the military fanatics and the teamwork freaks.

I, personally, am sick of the elitistic spirit of OFP players - especially on this board. Yes, I am a proud Flashpointer and I take every opportunity I get to promote this fantastic game on different internet forums or in real life. And yes, I fight the mainstream-wave of games today. But that doesn't mean I look down on the mainstream gamer. I instead see the mainstream gamer as a gamer that has not yet realized how fun and entertaining an excellent game can be, and has yet to experience how much adrenalin can flow through your body when you lie in a bush for half an hour doing absolutely nothing but scan the horizon. Even if it would not be their cup of tea I think their taste is crap, but I respect them for that. You may not agree with them, but at least you can respect them, right?

Well, I've never played ArmA yet, so I don't know exactly why CTF players are upset by it. But I have played some OFP CTF in gamespy.

I prefer other game types like Campaign Everon, C&H, and Coops. But, unfortunately it can be pretty hard to find servers to play on in gamespy and often I've had to settle for some CTF. And at first I really, really sucked at it.

It was pretty bad. Why, I could go an entire game with only a single kill. But, I stuck with it for a while and I gradually got a little better. I learned to camp out instead of running blindly ahead and to try and anticipate where the opposition would try to peek out for their shots. I still wasn't very good, but at least I would get many more kills than I used too. Sometimes, I was a little proud of myself.

That said, I still don't understand why CTF players love OFP so much. One of the main draws of OFP was having a huge island to wage war on, but most of the CTF games cordoned of a tiny plot of land for the arena. OFP wasn't specialized for the close range urban fighting that this created and it makes the rest of the island seem like such a waste. Most of the games didn't bother with the M16, instead arming players with the G36, which was incredibly accurate and lethal. It wasn't unusual for games to end it with 0-0 scores. Players ran forward, camped, shot emerging enemy, ran forward, camped again, etc. until they were killed and respawned to begin the process again.

And you couldn't try to sneak around to the flag from the backside either. Many maps were in a rectangular shape with the two flags on either side. There would be houses for cover or different alleys you could proceed down, but your enemy knew that you were always approaching from the same general direction.

This is not to say that CTF is a worthless game mode. It's kind of fun when teammates cover each other as they move forwards and take positions to protect the flag carrier. But the gameplay was tedious and repetitive. OFP's CTF felt like it really belonged in some other computer game. The fact that many matches began with a hip-hop song like "Never Scared" only further turned me off it.

I guess I just began to resent CTF because there weren't enough servers with other game modes open.

But at least I'm honest about it right?

[blackdog~ 0]

I voted the second option because I HATE CAMPERS OMG.

Seriously though, y'all can't be hating against the CTF's.

Anyone remember playing Lowlands CTF by Tactician in 1.46/1.72? That was the shit!

[maddogx 13]

OFP and ArmA are both ok for CTF games. You just have to play differently:

1. Stay in cover.

2. Advance slowly and cautiously.

3. When you need to advance quickly, get one or two guys to cover you.

4. Always work in teams.

These playing styles people use in other games will not work:

1. Run around like an agitated cat.

2. Shoot while running.

3. Always work alone. After all you want to score by yourself.

4. Do not use cover. Side strafing is MUCH more effective anyway.

I've played one or two small CTF matches (2v2) with some mates and it was definitely fun. Admittedly, it took some adjustment (I used to play FEAR, completely different ball game) but after a while you get the hang of it.

[wheres my rabbit ? 10]

here's a thought ... why not learn to work as a team to capture your flags

or rather than running around sidways spraying as many bullets as you can shoot try and use a bit of skill ...

you know quality ...rather than quantity

[sickboy 13]

(First off, about the CWR Mod that's supported by BIS, it's only to get the old OFP Classes back into ArmA, for backward compatibility of OFP Missions, Certain Scripts/Addons etc. etc. NOT to convert ArmA back to OFP, AFAIK )

CTF etc. is maybe defined by the Quake ERA and Unreal Tournament etc... RUN RUN RUN FRAG FRAG FRAG, and even ur in a team, you can't really call it a team very much as they all just run and gun.... I really can not understand why you would like to use such gameplay in games like OFP or ArmA. It may have been possible in OFP, but I am fairly sure that it was not specially meant for that... as the center of the game seems to be 'trying' to simulate war while still keeping a balance with gameplay, war doesn't include some running around soldiers jumping around and shooting like a bunch of monkeys at eachother

ArmA suits perfect for all teamplay/teamcoordinated gameplays (Which you can actually workout into CTF, C&H, A&D etc. etc.), run & gun just aint the focus! Nothing to do with coop! I'm not even sure if it was so onpurpose that you could run and gun 'easily' in OFP. You sure it wasn't with some mod either?

I never held a gun in reallife, but I can not imagine that the Army is highly trained that they can shoot while running while having a 80% accuracy hit rate or whatsoever. Shooting while moving seems to already be quite hard, and thats aswell possible to do in ArmA..

If you want your game to become run & gun, I guess you should make a post in the Addons & Mods Discussion forums and bring the matter up, see if you get much support and maybe you get together enough ppl with several skills to mod it. Modtools are needed for now, altough you might already get some improvements by simple config tweaking... It really aint hard, and there must be also modders out there that share your view... I guess.

If I want to play a race simulation, im not starting up ArmA... but some Race Simulator...

If I want to play some Rambo CTF, im not starting up ArmA, but some CTF Rambo Game (CSS/Quake/Unreal/BF2?)...

If I want a realistic game that tries to simulate war, which includes teamplay (Ever seen an army run all apart and shoot enemy without coordination or covering eachother etc, in the past years?), then I startup ArmA....

But it doesn't mean you can't mod the game to suit your playstyle/likings of coarse..

Then the thing is... what is Camping.. how do you define camping?

If camping means remaining forever on one spot waiting for enemies to come by, then that's not what proper coop gamers are doing

If camping means not running around, but going from cover to cover, covering eachother and trying to observe before moving and/or shooting, then that's what proper coop gamers are doing And if you ask me... this is an excellent example of how CTF/A&D/C&H can be like aswell...

About Campers... Yes, in a run and gun match Campers suck ass... as ur trying to combine 2 different playstyles into 1...

But I guess it's spawn camping/killing that's hated most and just shows how immature the player doing that is...

"Camping" (for snipers etc) while the whole server is taking a slow teamplay cover eachother tactic, with proper evaluation of surroundings etc... then it suddenly isn't an issue anymore...

About Rambos... Yes, in a teamplay cover eachother tactic match, Rambos suck ass... as ur trying to combine 2 different playstyles into 1, again....

Ramboing on a server where everyone rambos, is not creating issues either

So let's just cut the crap about hating campers, and hating rambo's... it's merely a playtype and ppl should be aware that it's a matter of choice/preference, and everyone has the right to choose. (Remember there is no discussion possible about personal perferences and tastes)

The fact remains, having a few players playing rambo and a few players "camping" creates a lot of problems and unhappy faces, as you were just running like crazy but got shot again for the 3rd time by that sniper high up in the hills... etc. etc.

That's a matter of having proper rules and adminning setup and enforced in the servers, to make sure that all like-minded ppl play on that server, and not ppl with different visions (Camping or Ramboing) on how they should play the game....

This weekend or the next, we at 6th Sense will be hosting a PvP Special. Usually we play coop everyday, but once in a while we wanna have a go at some PvP. Usually we make proper planning on both sides, both have 10 minutes or 5 minutes to do so... setup plan to fulfill the mission goals...

Let's say we have 1 or 2 rounds of some FF/DM just to blow off some steam with a couple of laughs, but you will mainly find 2 teams that both are working as a team to fulfill the objectives/destroy the enemy. I vouch for CTF/C&H/A&D in teamrespawn mode, as it slows the game down and makes ppl more watchfull/carefull.

We might open this one up with a public readable password so ppl who are interested to see how you can play CTF/C&H/A&D in a slower more team orientated gameplay, while tension and fun remains...

here's a thought ... why not learn to work as a team to capture your flags

or rather than running around sidways spraying as many bullets as you can shoot try and use a bit of skill ...

you know quality ...rather than quantity

Totally Agree.

[Dallas 9]

How about a 1 on 1 dogfight in the legendary ofp dogfighting plane (cessna), special dogfighting map.  If you shoot me down once in 10 atempts, I will never post in this forum again.  

I can even arrange a server for you.

Don't tease me... or underestimate me. But seriously what has dogfithing in cessnas to do with hip shooting while running?  

Anyone who have recieved a minimum of weapons training can shoot a weapon on the run. All you got to know is how to pull the trigger. Now there's shooting to shoot and then there's shooting to hit. You can't hit anything while running, but you can make your rifle go boom, that's about it.

ArmA is not going to be CS. ArmA aims at being a simulation, CS aims at being an arena twitch match. Each to it own, but seriously dumbing down ArmA to appeal to CS players, is a waist of skills and time. Any CS player is welcome, we just goto differenciate between simulation and arcade.

I'm not putting CS players down, because I understand it's a question of preferences, but I prefere ArmA. And ArmA's premesis is simulation or as close as it gets.

ArmA allows you to shoot on the run, you just can't hit like in reality. ArmA do not allow you too shoot while sprinting, because with a minimum of training it would be considered a waste of ammo and possibly dangerous. ArmA do allow you to fire while moving in a pretty high pace, either using your sights or aiming down along your rifle. You'll notice this pace is quicker than the casual walking, when the weapon is lowered.

This has nothing to do with Coop versus CTf. But it's ignorant to think coop players play coop because CTF is too challenging. This ignorant assumtion let to the tone of the original post and the following attempts to dismiss the majority's vote.

You can play ArmA in high paced DM matches, but if you quit before you've even attempted to master the gameplay it's your own fault.

[Stealth3 0]

Quote[/b] ]Don't tease me... or underestimate me. But seriously what has dogfithing in cessnas to do with hip shooting while running?

Well thanks to BIS, dogfighting DM, CTF, or anything that has to do with dogfighting is impossible in ARMA.

And CTF isn't all about a square boxed in area where people shoot one another. Its more to it, and not all maps are like that.

But whatever.

The only think ARMA simulates right now its frustration. And its quite good at doing so.

[Ruckus 0]

I think you should be able to shoot while moving.  Heck when you are moving through a CQB area, taking time to stop and get set before you shoot is a death sentence.  

I'd also like to be able to put my rocket launcher down or be able to go prone fast while in one of the other animations.  I get wacked many times while caught in a animation.  However I like ArmA as a whole anyway.

Some of the other folks take this game so seriously.  Every detail, every aspect needs to be reproduced in their minds.  Nothing is ever good enough no matter what BIS does.  Sure there are some things that may not be right to Mil Spec, but who cares?  It’s a flippin game.

If they are looking for Mil Spec detail there is only one possible fix.  JOIN the FRAPPIN ARMY!

The Plus's of joining the Armed Forces:

1.)Graphics are vividly reproduced Hi Rez Graphic quality.

2.)No AntiAliasing needed but graphics always in Hi Rez Mode

3.)No Mouse Lag.

4.)Weapon models are (in general) correctly rendered

5.)Physics are accurate

6.)Ballistics are correctly modeled.

7.)Vehicle armor modeled correctly

8.)Multiple hit points correctly modeled and weighted correctly.

9.)Frame rates are incredibly high with a low end system.

Down side:

No Team respawn.

No Seagull mode

No time advance mode

No CTI or MFCTI

Medics can’t fix a near death gunshot and put you back on the line in 10sec.

Oh well.... guess they'll have to weigh up the choices themselves.  

[NeMeSiS 11]

People who put ridiculous arguments IN their poll should be shot, end of discussion.

[franze 196]

I was wondering what the big deal was, then I realized that I fly helicopters to the flag instead of running for it.

Helicopters = the ultimate camper!

[Heatseeker 0]

I was wondering what the big deal was, then I realized that I fly helicopters to the flag instead of running for it.

Helicopters = the ultimate camper!

Oh.. i bet you land on top of satchel charges all the time then .