ARMA AI

[Stryder 0]

Hmm... "Extreme Bad"... that doesn't sound good

[funnyguy1 0]

@funnyguy1 -The AI is handles by your cpu, so you could have nice graphics becaues your graphics card is good but could stuggle with a large  number of units due to your cpu.

Well, It's hard to have the newest GF together with the 500Mhz CPU in one system isn't it?

That doesn't matter, It's not about lags, or number of units on the screen, show me a video with only 2 units fighting againtst each other, and uising proper tactics.

I don't have ArmA though, I'll probably have It within 4 days from now, and will do some serious testing...

[metalchris 0]

Think positive : it also says , that once the AI problems and annoying bugs are fixed a 90% rating is possible

[Hawk666 0]

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-Dawnrazor+Nov. 20 2006,10:00--><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote (

-Dawnrazor @ Nov. 20 2006,10:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PC Action

ArmA 75%

-15% because of extreme bad AI

I can just hope, that the developers read this thread and improve the AI (at least to an acceptable level) in the first patch.

I know that AI programming is very difficult but this game needs a good one, else it will never reach its potential...

I'm a little disappointed because in the previews it was always stated, that the AI will be sophisticated...

[NeMeSiS 11]

-Dawnrazor @ Nov. 20 2006,10:00)]PC Action

ArmA 75%

-15% because of extreme bad AI

Could you please tell us more what they say about the review? If its another reviewer who says that the AI shoot to good, or that the AI doesnt react (fast engough) because he has a crappy CPU, or whatever im going to kill someone.

[buddhiraja73 0]

Let's talk about something a bit more positive about the A.I. I read in a Placebo interview that the AI groups will make some STRATEGIC DECISIONS. If an enemy group spots us they will decide whether they will attack us directly or ambush us or hide or run away -- based on the terrain, our number and their number. I really like this aspect and, if implemented properly, will be a nice gameplay enhancement - the type of enhancement that I am looking for from a game like ArmA.

It would be nice if the AI groups make other strategic decisions like -

- Deciding which route to take while attacking, after analysing the terrain.

- In the middle of a battle, if an AI group is losing or disadvantaged, it will relocate or retreat using suppressive fire.

- Call in reinforcements if required.

- Use small squads for diversion.

- Co-ordinating the attack of various squads.

Maybe some of these qualities are already there but I LIKE THE DIRECTION BIS IS TAKING IN TRYING TO INCORPORATE STRATEGIC DECISION MAKING ABILITIES WITHIN AI SQUADS.  

[-BR--Dawnrazor 0]

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-Dawnrazor+Nov. 20 2006,10:00--><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote (

-Dawnrazor @ Nov. 20 2006,10:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PC Action

ArmA 75%

-15% because of extreme bad AI

Could you please tell us more what they say about the review? If its another reviewer who says that the AI shoot to good, or that the AI doesnt react (fast engough) because he has a crappy CPU, or whatever im going to kill someone.

Here if you can read German

http://www.a-xe.de/arma_preview_pca.jpg

[Guest]

One thing that is important in the review is that according to Mr. Gürnth (one of the two reviewers) BI is working on a patch which might be ready on the german release date.

[NeMeSiS 11]

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-Dawnrazor+Nov. 21 2006,08:22--><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote (

-Dawnrazor @ Nov. 21 2006,08:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

<!--QuoteBegin--

-Dawnrazor+Nov. 20 2006,10:00--><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote (

-Dawnrazor @ Nov. 20 2006,10:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PC Action

ArmA 75%

-15% because of extreme bad AI

Could you please tell us more what they say about the review? If its another reviewer who says that the AI shoot to good, or that the AI doesnt react (fast engough) because he has a crappy CPU, or whatever im going to kill someone.

Here if you can read German

http://www.a-xe.de/arma_preview_pca.jpg

Sounds like they just had problems ordering their units around, kinda like OFP where it was very hard to get your units exactly where you wanted them. However i dont see them saying much bad (except the AI soldier not noticing him, but we already knew thats a bug and shouldnt happen very often) about AI controlled squads which are very good IMO. (compared to other games). The mission problem caused by the AI are probably just bugs, and dont have much to do with the general AI scripts. Im not worried

[deFiler 0]

One thing that is important in the review is that according to Mr. Gürnth (one of the two reviewers) BI is working on a patch which might be ready on the german release date.

no he states that he "hopes for a patch" .. and advises testing befor buying .. further that the game wont win a beauty nor an inovacion contest .. he states that he liked OFP ..

the arcticel gives playercommmanded AI a 50% canche of doing what it is told to .. it speaks of AD (Artificial Debility) like one of the CZs did in the CZ part of this forums ...

i guess that "cant get there" problem with vehicles is still the same as it was in OFP .. caused by assigning posistions to all ordered in units at the time the order is given .. then u enter Driverpos and the poor AI that was assigned Driver (pos1) "cant get there"

[Timblesink 0]

One of the biggest problems that people have with the AI, especially the more "mainstream" (although definitely us too), is not how groups act, or how individuals act with strategy and tactics, but rather the AI's slow reaction time, their "floatiness" when moving, the strange "360 degree prone turn" (and its counterpart, getting up from prone while doing a 360) and, basically, the AI with small scale matters. If ArmA had AI that handled CQC and reaction times (and got rid of the "floatiness" and 360s) as well as it does larger operations, then it'd be getting high 90%s in reviews. This should definitely be BIS's next goal - Making the AI more "human".

[whisper 0]

Exactly.

ArmA AI is probably better than others in its thinking and decision process, and overall behavior.

It's unfortunately really really slow, from what we see in the vid. Even with ArmA slow gameplay, no player react that slowly. You immediatly, and I mean immediatly, run for cover when under fire.

[Balschoiw 0]

Keeping in mind that AI is CPU dependant a lot I am wondering how this will work with MP missions. The server needs to be extremely powerful to give a good AI performance (keeping aside the flaws that Arma AI has right now) ?

Quote[/b] ]ArmA AI is probably better than others in its thinking and decision process, and overall behavior.

Not as it is right now. I know this is a comparison I shouldn´t make but if you see how F.E.A.R´s AI handles their surrounding, make use of cover and use team tacs to pin you down and compare that to AI performance as it is right now you´ll see that there is still a lot more to do than just fixing the AI bugs.

Additionally AI should be able to effectively use the the same movement selection the player can use. That means AI should be able to roll, lean and they should put this abilities into action whenever needed.

[Blanco 0]

Quote[/b] ]Keeping in mind that AI is CPU dependant a lot I am wondering how this will work with MP missions

Indeed, graphics should be CPU dependant, not AI.

[whisper 0]

Quote[/b] ]Keeping in mind that AI is CPU dependant a lot I am wondering how this will work with MP missions

Indeed, graphics should be CPU dependant, not AI.

In the specific case of dedicated server, there's no graphic

All the CPU is stressed by AIs, scripts, and handling client/server communication (which, according to BIS, was the major CPU eater with OFP multiplayer engine)

On clients, on OFP at least, adaptative LoDs and such are the first things hit by lack of CPU power. Ie graphic. But there's so much that can be reduced.

But ultimately, at some point CPU will put ofc put a limit on AIs.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

One of the biggest problems that people have with the AI, especially the more "mainstream" (although definitely us too), is not how groups act, or how individuals act with strategy and tactics, but rather the AI's slow reaction time, their "floatiness" when moving, the strange "360 degree prone turn" (and its counterpart, getting up from prone while doing a 360) and, basically, the AI with small scale matters. If ArmA had AI that handled CQC and reaction times (and got rid of the "floatiness" and 360s) as well as it does larger operations, then it'd be getting high 90%s in reviews. This should definitely be BIS's next goal - Making the AI more "human".

Exactly!

I'm so happy that we will be able to edit the AI now.

I don't think it's because the AI-engine is too slow, cause they react instantly on fire... For some reason they just start ducking, getting up, then rotating until they get on to the ground. Any soldier knows that when bullets are flying upon you, get into cover!

Cover and getting down should be priority first when hearing gunshots. That way we would be seeing allot better AI.

[Chaos 0]

I my opinion is improvement of the AI the most important and awaited change. If the AI don´t will walk over the bridges, have problems with driving along the steets and walking in the buildings - and this issue can´t be fixed - made this game not more interesting for me.

[lecholas 2]

One of the biggest problems that people have with the AI, especially the more "mainstream" (although definitely us too), is not how groups act, or how individuals act with strategy and tactics, but rather the AI's slow reaction time, their "floatiness" when moving, the strange "360 degree prone turn" (and its counterpart, getting up from prone while doing a 360) and, basically, the AI with small scale matters. If ArmA had AI that handled CQC and reaction times (and got rid of the "floatiness" and 360s) as well as it does larger operations, then it'd be getting high 90%s in reviews. This should definitely be BIS's next goal - Making the AI more "human".

Exactly!

I'm so happy that we will be able to edit the AI now.

I don't think it's because the AI-engine is too slow, cause they react instantly on fire... For some reason they just start ducking, getting up, then rotating until they get on to the ground. Any soldier knows that when bullets are flying upon you, get into cover!

Cover and getting down should be priority first when hearing gunshots. That way we would be seeing allot better AI.

Well, I'm unfortunately a bit more sceptical about modifying the AI. I mean what i belive (from what I saw in the VBS2 movie about AI) we will be able to modify the way the AI reacts (i.e. if it is to find cover or shoot at first sight of enemy) but not the speed it reacts. It's like in old OFP - you can make a script telling an AI soldier to take cover but he will always do it very slowly because he will be ordered to move with 'doMove' command and the AI reacts quite slowly to that command...

I'm really hope I'm wrong... but I can't stand the "community/patch will improve it" attitude... The community will improve a lot of things but there are some issues that the community don't have access to and won't improve it.

BTW it's my 100th post in 5 years on this forum... not bad, huh?

[KeyCat 131]

I'm so happy that we will be able to edit the AI now.

I've read about this before but been unable to find (looked thru the Wiki) any actual information and what we are going to be able to modify, maybe you or someone else have a direct link?

IMO, beeing able to modify the AI is a great feature to have but I somewhat agree with lecholas. The AI is very important (and it seems BIS think so to) so a solid and working foundation for all the general AI stuff is essential and should be included in the engine not in 3rd party scripts.

Since I haven't tried ArmA myself I wait with specific comments about the AI until after I tried it for some days. But after reading several intervjues with BIS over the years I do believe we are all on the same page when it comes to the AI and I'm sure BIS works hard to keep improving it. At least thats what I'm hoping for....

/KC

[frederf 0]

"I mean what i belive (from what I saw in the VBS2 movie about AI) we will be able to modify the way the AI reacts (i.e. if it is to find cover or shoot at first sight of enemy) but not the speed it reacts."

VBS2 uses "agent AI" which ArmA does not. Pretty much everything you saw in that VBS2 video does not apply to ArmA.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]VBS2 uses "agent AI" which ArmA does not. Pretty much everything you saw in that VBS2 video does not apply to ArmA.

I guess that means that we will have to lock Keycat into his dungeon until he comes up with a Grouplink version

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

One of the biggest problems that people have with the AI, especially the more "mainstream" (although definitely us too), is not how groups act, or how individuals act with strategy and tactics, but rather the AI's slow reaction time, their "floatiness" when moving, the strange "360 degree prone turn" (and its counterpart, getting up from prone while doing a 360) and, basically, the AI with small scale matters. If ArmA had AI that handled CQC and reaction times (and got rid of the "floatiness" and 360s) as well as it does larger operations, then it'd be getting high 90%s in reviews. This should definitely be BIS's next goal - Making the AI more "human".

Exactly!

I'm so happy that we will be able to edit the AI now.

I don't think it's because the AI-engine is too slow, cause they react instantly on fire... For some reason they just start ducking, getting up, then rotating until they get on to the ground. Any soldier knows that when bullets are flying upon you, get into cover!

Cover and getting down should be priority first when hearing gunshots. That way we would be seeing allot better AI.

Well, I'm unfortunately a bit more sceptical about modifying the AI. I mean what i belive (from what I saw in the VBS2 movie about AI) we will be able to modify the way the AI reacts (i.e. if it is to find cover or shoot at first sight of enemy) but not the speed it reacts. It's like in old OFP - you can make a script telling an AI soldier to take cover but he will always do it very slowly because he will be ordered to move with 'doMove' command and the AI reacts quite slowly to that command...

I'm really hope I'm wrong... but I can't stand the "community/patch will improve it" attitude... The community will improve a lot of things but there are some issues that the community don't have access to and won't improve it.

BTW it's my 100th post in 5 years on this forum... not bad, huh?

My point was, that the AI actually DOES react pretty fast... But it is ding some pretty weird things instead of seeking cover.

Oh, and congrats on ya 100th post

[buddhiraja73 0]

My point was, that the AI actually DOES react pretty fast... But it is doing some pretty weird things instead of seeking cover.

My opinion is very similar, the AI does react quite fast most of the times ( apart from the few occasions when they do not shoot enemies standing in their line of sight ).

They seem 'slow to react' because they often reach simple goals in a rather elaborate and indecisive manner. At-times they zig-zag in the same area before doing something objective.  In a nutshell, they do individual tasks quickly but very often too many tasks are needed to perform something objective.

Lots of weird behavior patterns are also noticable in the videos like

- running down the middle of the street when there is obvious threat on the other side.

- not recognising dead friendly soldiers and walking into the line of fire of an enemy.

- going prone and crawling in front of cover - not only is the behavior odd, it looks very odd also.

- finding cover is not the priority for the AIs and utilizing corners and edges, to fire at the enemies, does not seem to be an option. ( Watch any good human player and this seems to be his/her biggest used technique when cover is present. )

I would also like to see some objective flanking and better co-ordination between suppression and flanking by the AIs.

[KeyCat 131]

I guess that means that we will have to lock Keycat into his dungeon until he comes up with a Grouplink version    

Thanks for your confidence Balschoiw

But still my hope is that Group Link II (and similar scripts) will be unnecessary in ArmA and that the stock AI will take care of that stuff by itself. I don't expect the AI to be working perfect in version 1.00, it will probably requires some patching...

/KC

[lwlooz 0]

Evening,

Has anyone who has ArmA seen any evidence of .fsm files lying around somewhere and if yes, could someone post one as an example.

Because "O Ye Great Awesome BIS"(as people refer to them here) is way behind schedule in updating their Biki.

TA