Helicopters in AA

[Balschoiw 0]

Why did BIS remove the free mouse aim in Arma helos without replacing it with an adequate substitute ?

I don´t get that.

[xnodunitx 0]

I just did a test with 5 Shilkas sitting at different location and me hiding behind a ridge. The problem is that if you can't see the target, it won't show up on the radar. So if you hide behind a hill, you won't be able to see the enemy. The enemy will show up if you target them manually (they need to be within a specific range also) or when they fire at you. So just going trough tab isn't going to work, unless they've spotted you first and they fire at you first or when you spot them manually or when you've come to such a close distance that they show up on the radar automatically.

Personally I have no problems with the flight model. It's hard and sometimes tricky but that's what makes it fun.

I never knew you could use tab to go trough targets. I've played with choppers in OFP for ages but I never knew that! This makes it much easier in certain situations.

But like I said before. Sometimes you got to manually target a vehicle, for it to show up on the radar, if it's really far away. To answer Scrub's question, No, you don't have to aim by moving the whole chopper. You can press space and then you can move the mouse around the screen. In the Russian Chopper, however, you got to aim with the dot in the middle and by moving the whole chopper which makes it a piece of crap.

Also another thing I noticed is that you shouldn't use X and C to rotate unless you are going VERY slowly. Less then 50 (KM/h or miles?).

I must admit I am a bit concerned of what you say about the enemies being unable to be seen behind cover,for infantry aspect this would make sense but not a helicopter. Though I'm also curious as to wether or not if these units are detected at longer ranges if they will be targetable. You'd have to mess with an addon in OFP that has long ranges,Franze's Kiowa has a very long range detection,considering that you said "specific range" I would guess that it may be possible with extended range.

I don't really remember a freelook feature except for the gunner seat,in the pilots I always had to press control to look around freely,for side to side and other directions,just not up and down.

[Balschoiw 0]

Well as it is now it renders the Kamov target cam useless and sends you to the ground the moment you use it

[Gimpster 0]

Free mouse aim is still there but its part of the new command interface called the Tactical View.  The key combo (2xEnter) will enter the view where you have free look and mouse targeting abilities.  The view will allow you to move the camera about centered on your position.

My tactic for flying an attack helo and assignig targets is to do it from third person view and the new tacticle view.  This allows me some increase in situational awarness which I lack for not having head-tracking ability.

Using this method I will manuver to the target zone.  Find a suitable masking location and then engage hover hold.  I use hoverhold to free my right had to work the keyboard and mouse to facilitate aiming and comand while using the left to control elevation and popup.  Rise to just before you unmask and the targets should become selectable then select a target in the Tactical view, unmask and order the gunner to fire and then remask as soon as the weapon clears the terrain.  Then move to a new location and repeat.

Using my Realflight controler I can fly around quite well so long as I take my time and do not try to do anything with haste and maintain a smooth and light hand on the controls.  I still feel there is too large a deadzone in the contols, even with the float slider to the far left.  The tailrotor is vastly underpowered and cross coupled with the roll for some reason.  And the collective is slow, underpowered and seems unpercise.

Aside from that, now that I am flying with a more percise controler I an not having nearly as much diffaculty as I was in the begining.  The old MS Sidewinder is just not sensitive enough anymore. Its still nowwhere near the BAS helos or Franze's Apache.  I would take a video if fraps did not make games unplayable on my system.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Free mouse aim is still there but its part of the new command interface called the Tactical View.

It´s not new. Tactical view has been there with OFP aswell.

The problem is that servers with serious gamers will have 3rd pv disabled by default, so it´s not possible to use it and it still does not provide any help with the targetcam on the Kamov that should be working at least. As it is now it´s useless and not working at all.

[Pierrot 0]

Free mouse aim is still there but its part of the new command interface called the Tactical View.  The key combo (2xEnter) will enter the view where you have free look and mouse targeting abilities.  The view will allow you to move the camera about centered on your position.

I would take a video if fraps did not make games unplayable on my system.

I'd like to see how kamov attacks targets in ArmA.

BTW, I found an AH-1's gunsight video in YouTube.

AH-1 Cobra in Iraq

You can see how an actual AH-1 captures targets(Hellfire) and guides missiles(TOW). Espesially a procedure of Tow's guidance is more exciting and interesting than OFP. It just centered target in the cam view, not locked on like OFP, and Tow missile was jittering to plunge into target.

Do you think you can realize such a realistic avionics which you see in the video as a chopper addon in ArmA?

[4 IN 1 0]

Free mouse aim is still there but its part of the new command interface called the Tactical View.  The key combo (2xEnter) will enter the view where you have free look and mouse targeting abilities.  The view will allow you to move the camera about centered on your position.

I would take a video if fraps did not make games unplayable on my system.

I'd like to see how kamov attacks targets in ArmA.

BTW, I found an AH-1's gunsight video in YouTube.

AH-1 Cobra in Iraq

You can see how an actual AH-1 captures targets(Hellfire) and guides missiles(TOW). Espesially a procedure of Tow's guidance is more exciting and interesting than OFP. It just centered target in the cam view, not locked on like OFP, and Tow missile was jittering to plunge into target.

Do you think you can realize such a realistic avionics which you see in the video as a chopper addon in ArmA?

i agreed with that, you lase the target the missile fly to that spot you can also lase the target with ground troops(infact thats whats the gunner for, he lase the target, pilot lunch the missile)

[GaX 0]

Well I don't know how choppers would handle in real life. I don't know if this new flight model for choppers is more realistic. But what I do know is that you can easily play the game with the current flight model.

I made a video showing how I use the choppers in this game. It's 6 minutes long and about 80 megs. It's 90% pure gameplay footage. That means (almost) no editing so this might be boring for some people.

http://www.uploading.com/files/1RU0YJWL/ChopperShow.rar.html

By the way, I got a pretty old PC so don't mind the crappy graphics.

I don't get any problems when flying. Maybe it's because I don't fly in a certain way that makes the chopper buggy. If that's the case, please tell me so I can see for myself why the flight model is so screwed up.

I haven't tried using a joystick yet so that's what I'm going to do right now... After clicking "Add Reply"...

I watched your movie! It shouldn't take 5 minutes to engage 4 armoured targets. You've just illustrated why Helos are so bad in ArmA. In OFP I could engage 8 or more targets in less that 30 seconds with the Apache. And that's about right. The Hellfire can be fired off at presets simultaneously (Which you could emulate quite well with the <tab> key).

You can't "popup" as is the usual method of engagement for helos because the flight model is so awful combined with the buggy targeting.

Truth be known, an AH-1Z would never overfly a Shilka, thats almost certain death provided the gunner isn't Stevie Wonder. Im not dissing you in anyway because given the current Helo situation, I probably couldn't have done it much better.

My point is that in OFP you could employ proper attack helo tactics and now you cant. Well at least I can't and most people seem to agree. I have tried that "Alligator" mission about 20 x now and it is nearly impossible to hold the Helo steady. The gun camera in the Kamov is ENTIRELY useless as it cannot be slewed independantly of the helos main controls.

Im not suggesting we try to incorporate a flight sim here. I just would have preferred it if it had been left alone. As the old addage says, "If it aint broke, dont fix it".

E

I totally agree

[GaX 0]

The only way to take out armored vehicles with this flight model in Arma is to use guided missiles...

It's IMPOSSIBLE to do anything manual cause choppers doesn't turn on his vertical axis when going over 50-60 Mph (it's defenitely a bug imho)

Blackalpha you used :

1) Guided missiles

2) Tactical view

LOL....Please..

[Gimpster 0]

Why would you not use a guided missle to take out a piece of armor? Its a one shot one kill solution. Rockets are not a sure thing and will using them will often take more the one or two to ensure a successfull hit. Rockets are great for slow moving or stationary groups and convoys. The chin gun is great for unarmored targets.

Personal I equate the Tactical view to being equivilent to the missing avionics and fire control systems. I will not appiligise for using is as such.

[max power 21]

The only way to take out armored vehicles with this flight model in Arma is to use guided missiles...

It's IMPOSSIBLE to do anything manual cause choppers doesn't turn on his vertical axis when going over 50-60 Mph (it's defenitely a bug imho)

Blackalpha you used :

1) Guided missiles

2) Tactical view

LOL....Please..

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean? Are you grabbing on your crotch and pounding your chest because real men don't use guided missiles?

[frederf 0]

"Personal I equate the Tactical view to being equivilent to the missing avionics and fire control systems. I will not appiligise for using is as such."

Apologies or not, you'll still be SOL when the MP server disables external views.

And Hellfires cost a heck of a lot more than a FFAR and you don't nearly have as many.

[Gimpster 0]

Why would I choose to play on a server where 3rd person view is disabled if i don't have headtracking ability.  The restriction to situational awarness is not worth it.

Would you ask a real helo pilot to fly with the side windows of his helo blacked out with out his helment mounted display?  Hell no he would be at such a disadvantage it would be a risk to even fly.

You have to remember that Armed Assault is a simulated world in which we do not have as much external input and with a limited viwpoint.  As suck some consessions need to be made to allow people to compensate for that lost input and visual awarness.  The 3rd person view is one such conession.

Oh and yes a Hellfire is an expensive weapon, but loosing an attack helo all its ordinance and two highly trained pilots is even more so. Targets that are a risk to me, will always get the preferential treatment of a guided missile if I have one.

[Universel 0]

Speaking of choppers, didn't you notice too that it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to evade a Strela/Stinger.

One cheap Strela = one AH down.

Two-three cheaps Stingers = one Kamov down.

[Gimpster 0]

Helicopters are not that well protected from either large caliber weapons or missiles. The ones used in ArmA are not the most current hardened Attack Helicopters. Nore are that all that manuverable. If attacked from the side to aft you will stand little change to evade a AA missle without intervirning terrain or countermesures. You just do not have the ability to out turn them. Head on you might stand a change as the closure rate is higher and the missle mnot be able to correct its line in time to counter a fast evasive move.

[Universel 0]

Come on, do you know something more maneuverable than Kamov?

And whatever you try, from wherever you come, Stinger will hit you.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Would you ask a real helo pilot to fly with the side windows of his helo blacked out with out his helment mounted display? Hell no he would be at such a disadvantage it would be a risk to even fly.

It´s part of every Apache pilot´s training to do exactly that.

You still can use numpad to look where ever you want in Arma, so I don´t see that as a valid point. A valid point for me is that unguided rockets are rendered almost useless with the current flight model and still, the targetcam in the Kamov is useless as it is.

And from playing OFP online for 5 years I know that all servers who have a decent approach to reality-like gaming will have any kind of 3rd pv disabled. I simply can´t leave my body to have an overview from up above.

The flightmodel needs a fix, it´s not simulating helos and planes correct. Simple as it is.

[xnodunitx 0]

Yeap.."the bag",both cockpit windows of the pilots section are covered so that no light comes in and there is no visibility of the outside world,the only way they have to see what is infront of them is through the single MFD which displays what the PNVS see's in one of its "modes",usually AH-64A.

I wonder how Ka-50 pilots use the helicopter in reality..sounds like a plane would have been a better choice if you ask me,or atleast Ka-52.

[Gimpster 0]

Its interesting how the northern troops get the experimental never been fielded KA50, while the southern troops only get an aging AH1Z. Doesent really seem fair. Now if the South had a Comanche things would be different as it has a similar performance envelope.

[Ian Malcolm 0]

Its interesting how the northern troops get the experimental never been fielded KA50, while the southern troops only get an aging AH1Z. Doesent really seem fair. Now if the South had a Comanche things would be different as it has a similar performance envelope.

Aging AH1-Z? The version in ArmA seems to be (judging from the engine exhausts and 4 bladed rotor) the newest version of the Cobra. Looky: http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/en....-1Z.cfm

Btw... Comanche was canceled if you didn't noticed

[xnodunitx 0]

Heheheh,good one

I can't help but wonder why they don't have other types of transports that are smaller..like say a Ka-60 kasatka,Mi-28 would cost waay to darn much,they'd have to get rid of the chinstraps. I guess BIS wanted to give them something different,instead of an Mi-28 or Mi-24 they chose the Ka-50..oh wait that was there before,oh well,modern and somewhat fantasy,key things to remember.

[Gimpster 0]

It´s part of every Apache pilot´s training to do exactly that.

You still can use numpad to look where ever you want in Arma, so I don´t see that as a valid point.

No its not part of the training. They have a headmounted display they is linked to an movable TV/IR camera, so they see where ever they point thier head. With out a similar headtracking ability, i.e. the $150 Track/IR Pro it will be dam diffacult to fly in cockpit view while in combat below tree top level using the hatswitch for view movement. The flight model is not as borked as I first remarked it to be.

[Stealth3 0]

Would you people stop trying to compare arma vehicles to real life vehicles? Because all they have in common are the names, shapes and weapons.

For example the harrier doesn't take off vertically like its supposte to. If Bis can't even simulate that right, stop argueing that they did the flight system on purpose to simulate real flying. The flying system is bad and needs fixing no matter what you guys say.

[Gedis 0]

alright, flying just needs a lot of practicing, believe me, i know...

you can do everything in ofp. but it's harder to gather the MP team for game style like bf2. Now arma has join on connect, so bf2 will be forgotten completely, just as i'll buy new PC specialy for arma.

[GaX 0]

alright, flying just needs a lot of practicing, believe me, i know...

Please record a video with fraps doing the AH1 single player mission only with FFAR and manual fire...