Helicopters in AA

[Journeyman 0]

Not EVERYONE has a mouse with a scroll wheel, let alone a scroll wheel thats clickable

I don't know that I have seen a mouse without a clickable mouse wheel since Windows95!  

[dm 9]

Not EVERYONE has a mouse with a scroll wheel, let alone a scroll wheel thats clickable

I don't know that I have seen a mouse without a clickable mouse wheel since Windows95!

Trust me, those little bastards still float around.

I was forced to use one for a couple of days a few weeks ago, and my god, it was like losing a limb!

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know that I have seen a mouse without a clickable mouse wheel since Windows95!

I use trackball mouse. It has neither a wheel, nor a clickable wheel.

[funnyguy1 0]

First of all the flight model:

*you want to hover? - get your hands from the mouse/keyboard and It just happens

*you want to fly over a mountain - fly straight, the engine will do the job

*rotor blades - what are rotor blades?

that's not good, It probably won't be changed soon

Weapons:

*well, give the gunner what he's suppose to do, the same goes to the pilot

*why tows and hellfires are fire and forget in ofp? that's one of the most important factors determining the usage of helos in the whole game (ok I admitt, I confused tows with hellfires somewhere)

AI:

ofp's AI is like that: "fly! fly! fly! bang bang bang! oh, I've missed, no matter! fly! fly!", the same goes to other vehicles...recent ArmA videos show quite fluent flight of the AI helos, but I'll wait till I test It myself (how do pilots behave when player is a gunner, the engagement ranges etc.)

[Pierrot 0]

Theoretically it should be fairly easy to impliment in a patch, since the pilot still has a logical fire button (which usually issues the "Fire/Cease Fire" command to the gunner) which could be re-slaved to a "class PilotWeapons" and the gunners controls re-slaved to a "class GunnerWeapons"

The only thing there is that you'd have to make use of the Fire/Hold Fire/Engage At Will options in the command menu a lot more (especially for AI gunners).

Another problem is that we have to make a method to specify armaments of AI gunner. In OFP, we human pilots only have to push SPACE bar to select AI gunner's armaments because AI gunner always uses only one weapon. But if AI gunner uses more than one weapon at the same time, we sometimes need to set a pair of weapons lest AI gunner waste wrong weapons. Unfortunately, the number of possible pairs increases compared to that of OFP.

e.g. Let's think about a following case: one AA missile, one AT missile and machine gun. All possible pairs are;

1. only machine gun

2. only AA missile

3. only AT missile

4. machine gun and AA missile

5. machine gun and AT missile.

So we have to select one mode among five possibilities. Shall we use action menu together with SPACE bar? But it is danger to be involved in selecting action menu while flying near the threats.

[dm 9]

I dont think thats necessary Pierrot, as long as the threat values are set up properly, the AI should choose the right weapon for the job.

There can always be a new assignment for "gunner next weapon" if the pilot is using the spacebar to change his weapons (e.g. FFAR / fixed machinguns)

[Heatseeker 0]

I was hopeing that BIS would have increased the dificulty up a notch, the targeting system, vehicle behaviour, etc...

Like the flight model still seems very simplistic, tracked armor still spins on the fly (same speed and precision of the turrets).

Because if they increased the dificulty/simulation part that much the game would atract even more sim fans .

[funnyguy1 0]

having those TOWS on cobra (still) lockable just kills the fun of flying the helos in ofp...

Franze and boys did nice job with the ofp-ish LOBL/LOAL for hellfires, even though It was just an ofp'ish simulation, It at least looked good, I thoutght we'll have such things simulated properly in ArmA 1.0, but I guess It's meant only for so called serious market, if you know what I mean

edit:

@Pierrot: I wanted to make a quick post somewhere else and did confuse tows with hellfires saying something like "are the tows laser guided or still fire'n forget like in ofp". I know how both of them work though. Sure there are those longbow hellfires irl, but in ofp we have longbow hellfires and even longbow tows (not to mention missiles launched from APC's) It just spoils the fun

[Pierrot 0]

*why tows and hellfires are fire and forget in ofp? that's one of the most important factors determining the usage of helos in the whole game (ok I admitt, I confused tows with hellfires somewhere)

TOWs and hellfires(early model) is not fire and forget. TOWs are guided through wires and hellfires(early model) is laser guided weapon. So we have to designate targets until impact. But longbow apache can use the latest hellfires which are completely fire and forget. So it is only when we fire hellfires that we have to expose ourself to enemy. After we fire hellfires, we can hide beneath mountain ridges or behind some buildings.

In addition, longbow apache can use longbow system with which it can seach enemies without exposing its body. These tactics bring varieties to missions but neither OFP nor ArmA supports this system.

[Scrub 0]

Of course, with this particular community, there is always that unspoken 'yet' at the end of those types of statements

[whisper 0]

*why tows and hellfires are fire and forget in ofp? that's one of the most important factors determining the usage of helos in the whole game (ok I admitt, I confused tows with hellfires somewhere)

TOWs and hellfires(early model) is not fire and forget. TOWs are guided through wires and hellfires(early model) is laser guided weapon. So we have to designate targets until impact. But longbow apache can use the latest hellfires which are completely fire and forget. So it is only when we fire hellfires that we have to expose ourself to enemy. After we fire hellfires, we can hide beneath mountain ridges or behind some buildings.

In addition, longbow apache can use longbow system with which it can seach enemies without exposing its body. These tactics bring varieties to missions but neither OFP nor ArmA supports this system.

Which Hellfire version is completely Fire & Forget?

[dm 9]

Which Hellfire version is completely Fire & Forget?

The AGM-114K Longbow Hellfire in Radar Guided mode can be fired by the crew and forgotten about. The Longbow radar and fire control system will guide the missle to its designated target without further input from the crew.

DOD 101 info on the Hellfire

[whisper 0]

Which Hellfire version is completely Fire & Forget?

The AGM-114K Longbow Hellfire in Radar Guided mode can be fired by the crew and forgotten about. The Longbow radar and fire control system will guide the missle to its designated target without further input from the crew.

DOD 101 info on the Hellfire

Na, 114K is still guided, but by external laser source potentially.

AFAIK the only F&F Hellfire is 114L but I'm not sure it's in use today

[dm 9]

Err, yeah, my bad. The DOD site really needs updating

You're right, the L version is radar guided and fire & forget.

[whisper 0]

And DOD site is not very helpfull to know if 114L is in production and/or in use (it keeps saying "will offer..", "will do..."), so that's why I asked

[dm 9]

Considering the 114L model was developed in conjunction with the Longbow for the Apache, and was designed to provide all-weather day/night capability (since the K model requires the target to be laser painted, thus can not function in bad weather) then I'd guess that its still in use.

Janes offers some more, slightly up-to-date information, and if the "Operational Status" section is to be believed, the US Army should have procured something like 13,000 114L's and trigger happy as they are, I can't see them having fired all of them...

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

So, those who are flying the choppers, what stick are you using and are you getting good results with it ?

I fly in OFP using my controll box for my RC chopper, its good for getting precise manouvers right, hope it works in AA though.

[Pierrot 0]

having those TOWS on cobra (still) lockable just kills the fun of flying the helos in ofp...

It is said that actual hellfires can even lock on and hit slow flying objects like hovering choppers. But hellfires in ofp can't lock on flying objects. It would be fun if you could capture flying objects in ArmA. In reality, longbow apaches must be able to lock on any target which reflects milliwave radar even though it is in the air. If ArmA simulated radar and radar reflections, you could easily lock on not only armed vehicles but also flying objects. Realistic simulations sometimes produce unbelievable tactics.

Quote[/b] ]@Pierrot: I wanted to make a quick post somewhere else and did confuse tows with hellfires saying something like "are the tows laser guided or still fire'n forget like in ofp". I know how both of them work though. Sure there are those longbow hellfires irl, but in ofp we have longbow hellfires and even longbow tows (not to mention missiles launched from APC's) It just spoils the fun

Tows fired from cobras are not fire and forget missiles. It has nothing to do with longbow. You have to lock on and put a target in the center of HUD until tow hits the target in ofp. But actual tows must be guided with its special monitor and control device. A xenic lamp which is set in the tail of tow is turned on when launched. This xenic lamp is monitored through a camera which is set to the cobra and the tow is controled to be always seen in the center of the monitor. You can move the camera thus you can control the tow by moving the camera indirectly. Usually you control the camera so that the target is centered in the monitor to destroy it. I wish ArmA have simulated this procedure precisely.

[Journeyman 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know that I have seen a mouse without a clickable mouse wheel since Windows95!

I use trackball mouse. It has neither a wheel, nor a clickable wheel.

I use a trackball mouse and it has both a clickable wheel and two additional side buttons!

You use a marble mouse because you are left handed and they don’t make left handed versions of my trackball mouse! I hope times will change for those of you who are left handed!  

[funnyguy1 0]

omg Pierrot you don't understand me m8

I was complaining about locking missiles on your targets, not on flying objects, even those missiles that aren't lockable irl. You then said that there's this hellfire L, a lockable version, that's true, but my point was that in ofp every missile seems to be lockable, no matter what version of which misile you're using. That's the reason I called ofp's tows a "longbow tows".

Despite that, we're both agree that missile tracking should be reworked

sorry, english is my 2nd language

[max power 21]

having those TOWS on cobra (still) lockable just kills the fun of flying the helos in ofp...

Sounds like a personal issue.

[Shashman 0]

So, those who are flying the choppers, what  stick are you using and are you getting good results with it ?

I fly in OFP using my controll box for my RC  chopper, its good for getting precise  manouvers right, hope it works in AA though.

Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro 2. Overall good joystick, has all the functions I need

Although I'm not at home and I'm using my laptop at the moment so mouse and keyboard

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Enemy Engaged has been modded to allow TrackIR support for aiming the Apache's chaingun. If a game can be modded to allow it, it isn't "too difficult" for the developer to patch it into their own game.

[xnodunitx 0]

Yeah but then we'd hear complaints that the cannon of other helicopters wouldn't follow the gunners eye like the IHADSS has with effect of the M230. I figure they will complain "its not fair".

[franze 196]

For those wondering: AGM-114L has been available for a while now. In case there's any doubt:

AGM-114L on AH-64DWO

The AGM-114L is the longer missile with the white seeker head. The other three are AGM-114K.