"Easy" Oxygen - Model Composer

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I am one of the countless members of the OFP community marvelled with the many addons that our great addon-makers have provided us with, and who actually tried to install and run Oxygen etc following tutorials and such, but who wasn't successful at coming to grips with it, but having given it some thought, wanted to make a request for a "Model Composer" to BIS.

The thing is, if my understanding of the tutorials of Oxygen are correct, that all "parts" have to be "identified" - given a "class" attribute, like for instance, the wheel of a model has to be selected and then given the attribute of being exactly that wheel of that addon which itself is also a determined type (and the "class" attributes are what made some addon makers learn some czech, if I'm not mistaken).

So I was thinking, since not everything is free and in the end a model is set up as being made of individually identified parts, why not take the process around, and make an "easy" version of Oxygen (compared to the "easy" mode in the ingame mission editor), where one could select a main body, define what it's supposed to be (is it a car? a plane? no, it's a... oh well, you know what I mean... ) and then add parts to it.

Example: Making a tank. One chooses the main body for it, from an existing "library" of bodies (be it at first only from the ingame provided ones, or maybe community added "components" as well later on), and then select the tracks, wheels, turret (which could be made more flexible in terms of what armament it could carry, and one could even choose to have more than 1 turret, where as of course traverse degrees would have to be definable as well) weapons (1 main gun? 2? 6? secondary machine guns? chain guns? etc?), and then also the texturing of a model could be simplified by slapping it on it (textures also drawn from existing "library" composed of game- and community-provided textures).

Maybe to get the best idea of what I'm thinking of is to take a look at the car customizing tool from Need for Speed: Carbon. There, all parts are available, yet the model is still able to be customized to your liking, although for ArmA it should be a little more flexible (like, you should be able to place the turret wherever you wanted on top of the tank, as long as there's enough "attachment surface" available, it could be placed on the front or on the back).

So I was wondering, if BIS could make something like that later on for ArmA?

Edit: I don't know if such a topic has existed before but I do apologize if I'm not the first one to come up with this idea...

[AtStWalker 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Example: Making a tank. One chooses the main body for it, from an existing "library" of bodies (be it at first only from the ingame provided ones, or maybe community added "components" as well later on), and then select the

what It's o beautiful O2 light as "light" 3d modeller , it needs only an UV texture mapping tool and an extrude tool to be complete. IMHO

Quote[/b] ]

So I was wondering, if BIS could make something like that later on for ArmA?

plz no , dear BIS release only an enhanced version of O2 light !

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Ok, so I correct myself and make clear that what I would like to see is a... hmmm... "flexible model composer" and not a model-making tool like Oxygen was, since Oxygen allows you to do stuff from scratch, and the "flexible model composer" would allow you to create new addons from existing components, although I'd like it to be flexible enough so that you could change the shape of the components a bit... but, essencially, it's a tool that allows you to make addons without having to go through the "almost-having-to-reinvent-the-wheel" process that is working with Oxygen...

[[aps]gnat 28]

hmmmmmmm ...... not sure where you're going with this BUZZARD, but I general think that O2 as it is plus a few of those typical 3D program missing features (like extrude) would be just right .... mainly because to get a addon to work correctly in OFP/ArmA you have to have those little extras like named properties and LODs.

Theres no easy way to go from "nothing" to making a fully working in-game model as I've discovered. It takes LOTS of time, learning and patience.

Maybe what you want is BIS to provide usable samples of each object type with a small tutorial ....

[klavan 0]

Gnat @ Sep. 11 2006,12:35)]Maybe what you want is BIS to provide usable samples of each object type with a small tutorial ....

Yeah, it would be great. Many tuts are already availble, made by some nice members, but an offcial one (you know, one with all many nice piccies and step to step "how to" guide) would be very welcome by the entire community.

Klavan

[Shinkansen 0]

BUZZARD @ Sep. 11 2006,11:40)]Example: Making a tank. One chooses the main body for it, from an existing "library" of bodies (be it at first only from the ingame provided ones, or maybe community added "components" as well later on), and then select the tracks, wheels, turret (which could be made more flexible in terms of what armament it could carry, and one could even choose to have more than 1 turret, where as of course traverse degrees would have to be definable as well) weapons (1 main gun? 2? 6? secondary machine guns? chain guns? etc?), and then also the texturing of a model could be simplified by slapping it on it (textures also drawn from existing "library" composed of game- and community-provided textures).

You can do this on O2, if you have a powerful PC, because you can start several sessions of O2 and copy paste things to your destinated addon. But you will have only one viewer.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

From what I've read, yeah, it should be possible, but still I'd then have to go through the process of selecting the parts and attributing to a class, then put the textures for the various LODs in it... it's a lot more complicated than if you had a Model Composer where you already had tokens...

Like, a tank has a main body, normally tracks with wheels (though, it should be flexible enough to consider that one could create a tank with wheels... or maybe even without... ); then it normally has armaments... maybe in a turret, maybe not... maybe in more than one turret... in any case, many processes currently necessary beyond shaping the initial model and selecting the right parts would simply be left out because the components would be "tokens" in the eyes of the program... and you could select like 1 texture for the close-up lod with the most detail, and have an "Auto-LOD" function create the remainder, less-quality textures for an addon (although, once again, it should be flexible enough that, given that the LODs would be also "tokens" in some aspect, you could choose which textures to apply to which LOD, but in an easy way... and of course, if you would still in the end alter the parts you have used to give it a more "personal" look, you should be able to do it... as well as the community should be able to create components for it... but you actually wouldn't have to bother with any LODs of anything anymore because the components would be "tokens" so you could edit them if you want to but the program would take care of the LODs...

Basically, this flexible model composer would work with token components, from parts to textures, but still be flexible enough for you to edit the components a bit, but would enable anybody to create his dream addon, as I said, without having to go through the "almost-reinventing-the-wheel" process that addon-making in O2 nowadays still is - and it would have to be all-in-only-1 tool, because AFAIK, O2 doesn't work alone, you still need Bulldozer, and what-not-else...

Edit: I guess this Flexible Addon Composer would be good to create almost any kind of addon except for islands and units...

[Metal Heart 0]

The easier the software is to use the less intelligent person it takes to make addons with it which in turn translates to a dramatic rise in the numbers of "funny" addons (as in silly useless crap that isn't even amusing at all beyond the initial zero-point-eight-second chuckle) and addons of poor quality released on the BIS forums.

Or not. Just a thought.

[dm 9]

O2 is already one of the easiest tools for addon making in terms of model making and model preperation for use ingame. And this is because of its simplicity. Yes its lacking in areas, such as uv unwrapping and modelling functions like extrude. But this is what makes it easy to use.

With a more detailed understanding of the addon making process, you would understand that what you are asking for is no easy program to write.

Essentially, what I read your request as, is a tool which simply allows you to stick parts together, in a somewhat LEGO style. This would certainly be possible, and is already in OFP to an extent. (Proxys) However, what you're asking for is basically a tool which makes addons for you with the least amount of input possible. That I'm afraid wont be possible until AI is sentient and can operate on its own. I.e. you ask it for a hummer with an M2 and the AI will make it for you. At the moment, it requires human skill to manipulate the verticies into the right position, and create the right polygons and then apply textures etc. There are plenty of tools available to aid the process, tools which will make "lods" tools which automate the mapping process and so on. But these are only aids to the process. It still requires a lot of human input, especially skill, to craft the "dream addon."

You also have to wonder about such a tool, is it about making addon creation more accessible or just easier for the "lazy man"? As it stands ALL forms of 3D artwork, whether they be addons for games or scenes for rendering all require a huge amount of time, effort and skill. No "wonder tool" is going to be able to substitute the human element...

Certainly O2 could use a few enhancements here and there, but for what it is designed to do it is perfect.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

o2 dosnt need improving. its all about practice pracitce practice.

[metalchris 0]

it (o2light) has definitly room for improvement, such as Uv editor , material editor (to compose materials from textures, normalmaps and specularmaps) and some animationpreview would be great.

While i do not demand these features , they would be a great addition to O2

[scousejedi 0]

I think I can see where Buzzard is coming from. What he describes sounds like Will Wrights SPORE. There are a lot of videos floating around the net - its a procedurally generated game.

You take a lifeform from amoeba to the stars and godhood.

As its procedural you are not restricted to complicated premade models - you actually make the models in game - adding feet and pulling and stretching them - put an extra set of legs - a six legged beast. Delete the hands and pull down a menu and select another set.

Great for a cartooney game but it leads to generic creations with limited textures. Sadly the 'fun' of OFP addon creation is making something that exists in the real world - that means it not generic - its highly specific.

If BIS could generate procedural vehicles with procedural textures / animations Im sure they wood as the art of a game must be a huge % of the overall cost.

Extrude and UV map like 3ds and I would be happy.

[Messiah 2]

it (o2light) has definitly room for improvement, such as Uv editor , material editor (to compose materials from textures, normalmaps and specularmaps) and some animationpreview would be great.

While i do not demand these features , they would be a great addition to O2

mmm, animation preview - never thought of that one!

given that anims will be handled internally with arma (i.e. using O2 itself, or thats what i've gathered from the wiki) then perhaps such a function is present, or it manifests itself in bulldozer?

or here's hoping

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Great for a cartooney game but it leads to generic creations with limited textures. Sadly the 'fun' of OFP addon creation is making something that exists in the real world - that means it not generic - its highly specific.

The Flexible Model Composer would never replace Oxygen per se as the prime modelling tool, nor would any addon created by it be the same as making the same addon in Oxygen... It would just be an easier tool to create "custom addons", as so many have appeared over time (addons made by the community and then modified by individuals). It would enable for everybody to make his own favourite variant or realise the addon according to each one's vision of perfection, thus releasing the addonmakers of all those nagging requests for the one variant with just minor differences from the inicial model - since it would give those "grognards" no excuse to make their own variants in the model composer, because it would be really easy. It would also be a practical tool for retexturing on the fly, but would be flexible enough to edit the components used, like size (scale), shape, and in case of for example turrets, traverse degrees, etc etc etc... and of course, the config parameters would also have to be inserted (max speed, ammo type and ammount for each weapon carried, armor values, etc etc etc...).

NFS: Carbon will implement a flexible model composer, you can see a video of it here... I was hoping for something like that but suited for addons of all types except islands and units, for ArmA.

[rundll.exe 12]

I think your suggestions makes it too easy to make "new" addons, leading into crappy addons that look horrible, and have bad configs etc etc etc.

Just leave it to the ppl that know what they are doing.

[hmmwv 0]

Making an ArmA Gmax plugin (like a lot of games out there), will help a lot of people, making things easier. And even more now after Gmax rebirth.

If not, improving the o2 interface a little bit...mmm...a lot, will help too.

[figjam 0]

I'm hoping that we can animate with o2 (rigging and animating) and be able to import animations from other programs (like 3ds max or maya).

[blackjack-VS- 0]

i agree with most of the addon makers opinions here. ofp addons are 99% of the times acurate vehicles, that are supose to simulate the real existing vehicle. having the lego system working (proxy concept) will cause a sudden plage of weirdo's addons. whoever feels that he would like to create his "dream" addon already has the tools. its from our nature to always demand more, so i dont pull myself aside of that. so what i would like to have in a next o2 version is some "small" features that can be found in most 3d software...

-modeling: having the basic options of "edit polygon". that includes extrude,cut,weld,chanfer,etc.

-texturing: a better uvw maps, and unwrap tool. normal maps auto creating tool would be nice (like that free tool from nvidia).

-animation: ofp animator already does a lot of stuff, but maybe some kind of bones system would be handy, and so an exporter/importer to other softwares.

-rendering: o2 preview window is good enough

so i just ask bis (and very sure of it) to maintain a simple tool like 02light, but updated to the XXI century then we'll be all happy again!

[AtStWalker 0]

i quote blackjack[VS] all we need is an o2 "plus"

[shinRaiden 0]

you're putting the horse before the cart.

In classic Oxygen Lite, whether you chose to go the merge or proxy route, you can already build content using premodeled components. So what you're asking for has already been done.

Rather, what's needed is really a large library of parts. We don't need a tool, we already have a tool. What we need is parts, and to make parts from scratch needs a primary modeling tool, and that kind of work is not snap-together lego style.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Well, O2 is by itself an incomplete tool, since it does not have a viewer... plus it isn't practical because you have to create a virtual drive to use it. And last but not least, it's in czech...

Anyway, if with ArmA comes a more user-friendly tool then I'll concede that my idea has no reason to exist... except perhaps as a retexturing tool, I think it would excel at that because one sees the models and applies, with the possibility of modification, textures on the model in real time. And that would be great, as well if one would have to stop worrying about LODs, since the tool would take care of automatically creating LODs so that there are no more missing LODs...

But I guess there's only one thing to do: wait and see...

[Messiah 2]

i didnt have to create a virtual driver to use O2, and although it doesnt come with its own viewer as such, Bulldozer is better in some respects that other render viewers - few allow you to see changes in real time, that update instantly, rather than needing 3 hours to chug along and render one thing.