Breath Holding?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Yeah, the magic of internet threats...

-Removed-

[USM-75R.Highspeed 0]

Proof? you post proof you lame piece of crap. I could care less if you believe me.

[dslyecxi 23]

Proof? you post proof you lame piece of crap. I could care less if you believe me nig.

Was that a racial slur you slipped in there at the end? Brilliant!

As to proof, well.. how about this?

That's me, in 2005, on Okinawa. Note how I'm an actual former military member, not some kiddie who's claiming to have been one in some mystery past life.

[chipper 0]

So the USM clan supposed to be mature eh??

[USM-75R.Highspeed 0]

lawl, I'm no kiddie, just someone who doesn't put up with shit IRL, and not about to in the forums. I was in the US army, out of fort Lawton Seattle, with the 291st TC Det. Spent 4 months active in Fort Lewis... I don't have a pic, don't need one. AKO account was brian.sanders6@us.army.mil however has since expired due to inactivity. And mr Marine, since yer clearly not smart enough to see that it was a ratial slur then allow me to answer you... I said NIG, NIG in defined terms means nothing however nigger an ignorant person, also used as slang towards a black person... so, who's the raicist bastard here?

[aus_twisted 0]

It sounds like you come from a Counter Strike background with the last 2 or 3 posts.

[USM-75R.Highspeed 0]

I eat people from counterstrike for breakfast... I've been meanin to ask you all something... do you shave your pubes? cause I attempted it today... and it got a little bloody. Can one of you lend a word or two in that effect?

[dslyecxi 23]

lawl, I'm no kiddie, just someone who doesn't put up with shit IRL, and not about to in the forums. I was in the US army, out of fort Lawton Seattle, with the 291st TC Det. Spent 4 months active in Fort Lewis... I don't have a pic, don't need one. AKO account was brian.sanders6@us.army.mil however has since expired due to inactivity. And mr Marine, since yer clearly not smart enough to see that it was a ratial slur then allow me to answer you... I said NIG, NIG in defined terms means nothing however nigger an ignorant person, also used as slang towards a black person... so, who's the raicist bastard here?

Haha. I see. You're a Reservist who thinks he's hot shit because he was active for four months.

You're a disgrace to the Army, buddy. Your conduct in this forum is not what I would expect from an Army servicemember, Reserve or not.

As to "Who's the racist bastard here", I think the answer is clear.

Enjoy your last few posts on the forum, buddy. You're not going to be here long.

[jj29 0]

Some people think that weapon sway will disapear if they hold their breath.That's not true.Holding breath can help you aim better,but it's not very useful to a normal riflemen.your hand still sways when you hold your breath.

Sharp shooters' weapon sway is mainly caused by breathing.so they hold their breath to take a deadly shot.But most riflemen are not sharp shooters.Their weapon sway is mainly caused by the sway of their hand.That's why i think holding breath isn't very useful to normal riflemen.

[dslyecxi 23]

Some people think that weapon sway will disapear if they hold their breath.That's not true.Holding breath can help you aim better,but it's not very useful to a normal riflemen.your hand still sways when you hold your breath.

Sharp shooters' weapon sway is mainly caused by breathing.so they hold their breath to take a deadly shot.But most riflemen are not sharp shooters.Their weapon sway is mainly caused by the sway of their hand.That's why i think holding breath isn't very useful to normal riflemen.

Do you have any shooting experience to back that up?

As an experienced real-world shooter with credentials, I can tell you without question that breath control plays a very large part in accurate marksmanship. The 'natural respiritory pause' is a major element of shooting.

To say otherwise, as I've mentioned previously in this topic, only shows that you are not familiar with real world shooting, or are a poor shot.

[jj29 0]

I am always shooting with my air gun,but i have never shot a real rifle.I am sure that i am not a poor shooter,and i know that the weapon movement is mainly caused by the sway of my hand but not my breath.Instead of holding your breath you can just breath slowly and softly while aiming a target.

I didn't say that holding breath is useless.It's very important to snipers and sharpshooters if they want to hit a target very far away.but it isn't so useful to normal shooters.

In cod2,while you are holding breath,the weapon sway disapears.that's imposssible.I hope BIS won't make the same mistake.

[sniper pilot 36]

what...just...happened??

why are people so angry about differing points of view??

I seriously got here late.... Wth? Wheres the mods? or Placebo

[sirex 0]

please god someone ban USM-75R.Highspeed. kids and computers are not a good mix.

edit(2): dealt with. nvm.

[Capitan_eXtreme 0]

Nah it is realistic, Armed Assault is a soldier simulator so it makes things as realistic as possible, that includes gun movement. It is extremely importent for a sniper and riflemen firing over long distances. Oh and remember, you won't be running up and down hills every single moment of Armed Assault so you won't always be starving your brain of oxygen. And I think your brain can go ten seconds without oxygen.

did it ever happened to you that when you get up too fast, you feel dizzy for awhile? that's the result of your brain getting less oxygen for one second. imagine what no oxygen for ten seconds would do. not really an improvement of your concentration and ability to extrapolate where to intercept the target.

add to that the fact your hearing and eyesight go down first when you need oxygen and you will see that this is more of a con then a pro...

Thats actually just a quirk with specific people; a slightly lower bood pressure than usual causes dizzyness when you get up quickly. I know it happens to me.

But back on topic, I certainly think that holding your breath for shooting is a great system. Definately useful for snipers and other marksmen, but ordinary infantry wouldn't do it much. Only in a situation where the enemy doesn't know you're there and the first shot is the one that counts.

[Placebo 29]

USM-75R.Highspeed extreme abusive flaming and racial epithets can and will only ever result in one thing, permanent ban.

[Second 0]

But back on topic, I certainly think that holding your breath for shooting is a great system. Definately useful for snipers and other marksmen, but ordinary infantry wouldn't do it much. Only in a situation where the enemy doesn't know you're there and the first shot is the one that counts.

Yes!

If you have to for it... Then go for it. As long as breath holding isn't required to hit at all (just for some bonus steadyness to aim).

We were teached to hold breath when shooting... I did it in rifle range to achieve good as possible pointamount and earn free ticket for coffeecup (when having ~3 euro from day's service, you might understand that it's great way of motivation). But i don't remeber doing it in "battle-shooting" (Your shooting targets with live bullets and participating in some battletactic like attack or defence... did anybody get this?), for reason that breathing system is automated process at this stage of training, shooting works like swiss clock. You don't have to think about it, but it's there: deep in your spine.

[martinovic 0]

Well guys i was just saying... most of you guys who talk tough don't have the combat experience that will be depicted in ArmA. This isn't going to be a rifle range simulator, but actual combat (well you know what i mean...).

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinetrng/a/riflequalify.htm

Quote[/b] ]While the new course doesn’t supply Marines with a completely accurate combat situation, it is a vast improvement from the standard rifle qualification, which allows Marines the luxury to take their time and execute proper firing fundamentals in a relatively stress-free environment.

I don't know when you served dyslexci but a rifle range is far from actual combat.

edit: during combat soldiers run around, get shot at, stress-out and lots of other things that would make holding your breath difficult. thx for clearifying how it'll work Suma.

[ns_kossak 0]

USM-75R.Highspeed extreme abusive flaming and racial epithets can and will only ever result in one thing, permanent ban.

thank god. good riddance to bad rubbish. i was wondering where the mods were. Good to see the "Placebo Effect" still carries some weight

I like the breathing idea. i think that was the most innovative idea "America's Army" put forth in their game (the rest of it, sadly, was mostly tripe and a blatant recruiting tool...moving on..)

I also like the the idea of 3d sights. hopefully it'll include the benefits (heh.. would it be a benefit? maybe i should just say the "effect") of headshake and fatigue instability.

I also REALLY like the idea of adjustable sights (not so much in terms of elevation and windage, but moreso the zoom to bring the ironsights closer or farther away depending on the F.O.V required)

I'm dying here. i need this game to come out soon. Nothing holds my interest anymore. wasnt it supposed to be out by the end of Q3?

[dslyecxi 23]

Well guys i was just saying... most of you guys who talk tough don't have the combat experience that will be depicted in ArmA. This isn't going to be a rifle range simulator, but actual combat (well you know what i mean...).

It's nice to have someone else tell me what my intent is, and then sit there and brush off my personal experiences (which you aren't even fully aware of) as somehow not totally relevant here. If you somehow think that my shooting experience (to include live-fire, MOUT, and a robust ISMT simulator that includes 3D training with low-exposure, moving targets out to 500+ meter ranges) is completely invalidated because I haven't done it in an actual life-or-death situation, by all means, believe that. I could easily go and talk to any number of Army and Marine friends who have "been there, done that" that would back up what I have to say. This is not mere theory on my part, but thank you kindly for brushing it off as that.

Quote[/b] ]I don't know when you served dyslexci but a rifle range is far from actual combat.

Thank you, Cpt. Obvious. The "rifle range" is the least relevant of my shooting training, however it is great for the emphasis of fundamentals, which is what this discussion is about. Breath control is a fundamental part of marksmanship; to say otherwise is folly. It should be included in any tactical realism game worth its salt. Again, thank you again for discounting my experience as if it is not relevant. As a former USMC pistol/rifle coach, that means a lot to me.

Quote[/b] ]edit: during combat soldiers run around, get shot at, stress-out and lots of other things that would make holding your breath difficult. thx for clearifying how it'll work Suma.

Do I have to sit down and write a very detailed post explaining the concepts of this? You're being quite closeminded (as are others), if you took a bit of time to think about the situation you'd understand that a "hold breath/concentrate" key would still have a purpose even if your virtual soldier were tired at the time. But hey, if you'd like to think that it's a silly thought to try to control your breathing when you're exhausted, that's fine by me. Fortunately for those of us who enjoy that crazy thing called "realism", you're not the one calling the shots on the game's features.

[Second 0]

Well guys i was just saying... most of you guys who talk tough don't have the combat experience that will be depicted in ArmA. This isn't going to be a rifle range simulator, but actual combat (well you know what i mean...).

Umm.. Let me guess? You've done mostly this "battleshooting", have you? What is you nationality? Well no need to answer that really.

I agree with you in shootingtraining. If i've figured out right you nationality and what i've read for magazines is true: You had mostly "battleshooting". Am i right?

I'm clad that we used only basic training in shooting ranges, rest of the shootings was done in "battleshooting" and only sometimes we hit the range, to "learn" again what it was to shoot "easy" targets. Those were always memorable times when we had "real" action. (This somehow sounds so lame... what is wrong with it? i try but, i can't type this like i think it should been typed? Blasted! I just read it over and over and it sounds so lame, but i don't figure out what wrong with it?)

EDIT: WTF is that lamp next to my nickname? i have yellow light in it... Is it dangerous? Should i run?

[Dwarden 1125]

as someone who was actively shooting pistols and several types of rifles years ago (yes i can say i was unable to visit shooting range in past 3+ years due to IRL)

i'm quite amazed what people trying to "sum up" as "unrealistic or not possible" ...

i suggest to take visit to some nearest shooting range, speak with theirs training person to give you example how handle REAL guns ... or even better get lesson for Yourself ...

sure it will cost you at least some beer or bit bucks but it's worth that experience ...

[sirex 0]

agreed.

i think the people posting this thread are mostly in agreement too actually. -- when i fired rifles (and my experient *is* limited) we held our breath for a brief moment. it did help with aiming, but to be honest, it also helped tense up your muscles for the recoil anyway. Some people i knew just fired at the top of their breathing in.

if your in a intense battle, maybe you wouldnt use it, if your on semi auto maybe you would, and if your a sniper then you definatly would (i assume, never fired one).

really though, in terms of Armed assault, it would be nice if you had a hold breath bind as a sniper (maybe in place of something like the fire selector since as sniper your semi auto / single shot) but it's a game, its one of those grey areas. I won't throw a hissy fit if it's not in the game.

beyond this, it depends where you got taught. but hell, if you hit the target, who cares if your going blue or not ?

[martinovic 0]

Hey take it easy dyslexic i am not trying to say your training was worthless and you have no idea what you're talking about. Buuut: you are trying to say that you are an expert rifleman (rifle coach even), with glasses? I have glasses myself and i can sure tell you that you have atleast 1.5 dioptria (i don't know the english expression).

How long did you serve before they let you instruct others on how to shoot?

Quote[/b] ]I could easily go and talk to any number of Army and Marine friends who have "been there, done that" that would back up what I have to say.

Well... now we're talking, please do i would be very interested in what they have to say (not that i'm trying to disrespect what you are trying to say, it's just that you know... they've actually applied these theoretical principles in actual engagements).

Quote[/b] ]It should be included in any tactical realism game worth its salt.

Well i would think it depends on how it is implemented and that's what i'm concerned about... CoD2 had it and i was like "hey i just sprinted across the street with 4 nades and a bunch of ammo in my pockets, time to hold my breath and shoot".

On the flipside we have americas army, which had a nice system of breathing cycles.

I'm not trying to pick a bone with you Dslyecxi, i'm just worried about how this whole breathing thing will be in arma, cause my initial thought was like, "arrr it's CoD2!".

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]Hey take it easy dyslexic i am not trying to say your training was worthless and you have no idea what you're talking about. Buuut: you are trying to say that you are an expert rifleman (rifle coach even), with glasses? I have glasses myself and i can sure tell you that you have atleast 1.5 dioptria (i don't know the english expression).

Having glasses does not automatically mean that you cannot shoot. I'm not sure where you got that impression from. There are things to take into account if you're shooting with glasses, yes, but they play a relatively small factor compared to the actual fundamentals of marksmanship.

Quote[/b] ]How long did you serve before they let you instruct others on how to shoot?

I became a coach in the last year of my four years of service. I also ran an Indoor Simulated Marksmanship Trainer (ISMT, I referenced it earlier) that we used to train people on various weapon systems. I spent a great deal of time in it firing (simulated) machineguns, anti-tank weapons, shotguns, submachineguns, rifles, pistols, etc, and I was able to improve my pistol shooting in particular by a great amount. If you're interesting in seeing a few pictures from the ISMT, you can find them here: http://dslyecxi.com/images/ismt/

Quote[/b] ]Well... now we're talking, please do i would be very interested in what they have to say (not that i'm trying to disrespect what you are trying to say, it's just that you know... they've actually applied these theoretical principles in actual engagements).

I know where you're coming from, and I'll go ahead and ask a few of them for your sake, but I can guarantee they'll echo my thoughts. Shooting in combat requires a compression of the fundamentals of marksmanship - the same things you do on the range still apply, you just have to do them more quickly. As to your earlier link about the "improved" USMC qualificaition course, when I was serving we did field fire, it just wasn't part of the score. It was limited-exposure, moving targets, with you doing transitions from stance to stance and such. There was also an Unknown Distance course-of-fire that we did in bootcamp.

Quote[/b] ]Well i would think it depends on how it is implemented and that's what i'm concerned about... CoD2 had it and i was like "hey i just sprinted across the street with 4 nades and a bunch of ammo in my pockets, time to hold my breath and shoot".

Think of it as controlling your breathing, not merely "holding your breath". If I sprinted across the street and was breathing heavy, I'd still try to control my breathing if I were trying to take an accurate aimed shot at someone. As far as I'm concerned, any "hold breath" feature should be known as a "Shot Concentration" feature instead, so that it more clearly represents the various factors it takes into account.

Quote[/b] ]On the flipside we have americas army, which had a nice system of breathing cycles.

America's Army's system was frustrating beyond belief, since you had no control over the breathing. I hated that. I would likewise hate to see that in ArmA.

Quote[/b] ]I'm not trying to pick a bone with you Dslyecxi, i'm just worried about how this whole breathing thing will be in arma, cause my initial thought was like, "arrr it's CoD2!".

Have a little more faith in BIS than that.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

It was in Elite. How many players complained about it?