release over steam

[kegetys 2]

By a middleman I meant shipping and handling companies. I should have said "no need to give any money to another middleman" because there is just Valve, the software company and the customer (plus of course credit card companies).

True, however this can also be achieved by other means than steam distribution, for example Battlefront is a publisher from which you order the game directly, and you get a hard copy just like you would from a store.

Quote[/b] ]And what comes to legal issues. For example OFP had the Codemasters software license agreement...

EULA's in commercial games have zero legal ground here, when I buy a product I have the right to use it and the seller/manufacturer cannot just one day decide to destroy something I have legally purchased, not to mention about destroying other products that are not in any way related to it. What they're doing sounds more like mafia style tactics to me, they sell you a bunch of products and then suddenly decide to take them all away from you, forcing you to re-buy everything. They take the roles of the lawmaker, prosecutor, judge and executioner all to themselves which can not in any way be just.

[Journeyman 0]

By a middleman I meant shipping and handling companies. I should have said "no need to give any money to another middleman" because there is just Valve, the software company and the customer (plus of course credit card companies).

True, however this can also be achieved by other means than steam distribution, for example Battlefront is a publisher from which you order the game directly, and you get a hard copy just like you would from a store.

Quote[/b] ]And what comes to legal issues. For example OFP had the Codemasters software license agreement...

EULA's in commercial games have zero legal ground here, when I buy a product I have the right to use it and the seller/manufacturer cannot just one day decide to destroy something I have legally purchased, not to mention about destroying other products that are not in any way related to it. What they're doing sounds more like mafia style tactics to me, they sell you a bunch of products and then suddenly decide to take them all away from you, forcing you to re-buy everything. They take the roles of the lawmaker, prosecutor, judge and executioner all to themselves which can not in any way be just.

You said it right! - Steam = Mafia!

[tkokid 0]

1 other thing i really hope we dont see is starforce protecion system i have just bought a alien area 51 and 2 new games wont work because of starforce. very odd considering they both run on a older pc

[M4XSs 0]

1 other thing i really hope we dont see is starforce protecion system i have just bought a alien area 51 and 2 new games wont work because of starforce. very odd considering they both run on a older pc

Starforce is different matter, no one want that shit to be bundled with their favorite game.

I personally consider any action against starforce as a rootkit ethical.

[berghoff 11]

A starforce developer also posted a working link to a torrent with a game that has starforce on it to "prove" it is uncrackable. It was on a game-news site a week ago. lol =) not very smart

[Dwarden 1125]

A starforce developer also posted a working link to a torrent with a game that has starforce on it to "prove" it is uncrackable. It was on a game-news site a week ago. lol =) not very smart

actually they posted link to torrent site about game w/o ANY copy protection to prove how easy is to pirate unprotected game (no matter that game is very sucessfull and good seller) irony is on same site You find all starforce protected games ...

so please next time read more about theme before posting

[berghoff 11]

Then the news site posted wrong information because that was in the article.

[Dwarden 1125]

Then the news site posted wrong information because that was in the article.

You can read original (from affected game developers) here http://forums.galciv2.com/index.a....741&c=1

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]If BIS people think they would benefit more if they did that why not.

... because a system like steam, doesn't benefit anyone but the company.

However, the only exception to this which has been mentioned, is a DISTRIBUTION ONLY via steam. AFAIK Red Orchestra does not require steam for anything other than simply delivering the game to your pc. It does not require you to run that sack of shit program whilst running the game.

I wouldn't mind this so much if, IF I could still buy it in a store.

As many people here have mentioned, we want something physical to show for our purchase, we want a cd/dvd, etc.

[Dwarden 1125]

Quote[/b] ]If BIS people think they would benefit more if they did that why not.

... because a system like steam, doesn't benefit anyone but the company.

However, the only exception to this which has been mentioned, is a DISTRIBUTION ONLY via steam. AFAIK Red Orchestra does not require steam for anything other than simply delivering the game to your pc. It does not require you to run that sack of shit program whilst running the game.

I wouldn't mind this so much if, IF I could still buy it in a store.

As many people here have mentioned, we want something physical to show for our purchase, we want a cd/dvd, etc.

Uhm ROO need Steam to authenticate too plus there is VAC anticheat integrated into ROO ...

boxed versions of ROO are going to be in stores within next weeks ...

still You need Steam account ...

btw. Steam takes like 5MB in idle mode and generates close to 0 traffic (except auth) ...

[advocatexxx 0]

Most People here vote NO steam. NO PB!

most people also seem to have some, rather distorted ideas about what steam is and how it works.

"most people" also voted to re-elect president bush, but that obviously didn't turn out to be such a good choice either.

whoever refers to steam as a "piece of shit, system-hogging spyware" needs to upgrade their computer (128MB or RAM just doesn't cut it anymore, bob).

[Journeyman 0]

Most People here vote NO steam. NO PB!

most people also seem to have some, rather distorted ideas about what steam is and how it works.

"most people" also voted to re-elect president bush, but that obviously didn't turn out to be such a good choice either.

whoever refers to steam as a "piece of shit, system-hogging spyware" needs to upgrade their computer (128MB or RAM just doesn't cut it anymore, bob).

3.2GB P4, 1GB RAM, 160GB hard drive - still think that Steam is a "piece of shit, system-hogging, contol freakware"!

Nothing to do with system specs at all, this is about ethics and freedom of choice, neither of which Steam is capable of delivering!

I've had Steam, tried it, didn't like it, still don't like it, end of story!  

As for President Bush, I can't comment because I'm not American!

[Dwarden 1125]

please stay with facts (like bloated unstable crapware) but speculation about Steam being spyware are just Your pure imagination ...

prove it or stfu ...

[shinRaiden 0]

Hey people, you're not helping the discussion any here. All you're saying is "z0mg, Steam is Satan's own virtual toilet paper" and throwing out rehashes for Valve's specific implementation of some generic concepts.

1) If the option were available, would you prefer to download the game content as opposed to wait for or go get a disc? I don't have the exact numbers, but the significant majority of VBS1 customers have specificly requested direct downloads instead of mailed discs.

2) Valve is far from the only one that offers out-sourced server security and enforcement. WoW is mandatory via The Warden. Joint Ops, BF2, and Americas Army all have it optionally available. It's far from being a Valve-exclusive story, and the real horror stories are coming from Blizzard, not Valve.

At any rate, that also implies that BIS is buying up vast chunks of server farm real estate to roll that sort of offering. That is rediculous on several fronts. First, locked-down and externally controlled systems are difficult to rapidly integrate new mods and content into. That's incompatible with the OFP community spirit.

3) If a pay-to-download-direct system were implemented, but a managed server services system is impractical, why would you need a custom TSR frontend app anyway? Oh wait, lots of people already run a couple, like Kegety's OFP Launcher or OFP Watch which does auto-data syncronization.

So on one hand you have people dancing around the fire in praise of bn880's idea for a hash indexed auto content updater for AAE 2.0, yet they come over here to blast the very same concept. You can't swing it both ways. The frontends are really non-critical though because there's no need for secure authentication to game-external monitoring systems, although there has been community-encouraged discussion of that very technology from sileasian and malbrouf.

So far all the bash-Steam reasons have completely missed the original intent of the discussion, which was to explore community interest in alternate distribution methods. If you don't like Valve, don't buy their products. I never suggested that BIS put their stuff on Steam or Fileplanet or whatever. I just said "look at the underlying tech and what's applicable and what's not, and comment if it's an interesting idea."

[XCess 0]

Steam has been cracked. I'm not sure if the current version has been cracked, but I know it has been in the past. This just provides another option for people to download the game illegally.

They already have torrents, why give them another option to rip off the only games company that actually deserves the money they make from their games.

If BIS want to distribute ArmA electronically, they should do it through their own ftp servers, not a cracked piece of shit like steam.

And as for Steam being a system hog. Any programs running in the background waste good resources, I would rather have absolutely nothing running in the background, even if I only gain half a frame per second from it. And why should people pay to upgrade their system just because steam wastes the resources that ArmA could be using.

Also, all the cheaters from CS; Source will have an easy gateway to ArmA. Using the same cracked copy of Steam they have they can download ArmA, polluting our servers with bunny hoping, team killing, noobs who play only to piss people off and cheat. Certainly not something I'd vote for

[Major Fubar 0]

please stay with facts (like bloated unstable crapware) but speculation about Steam being spyware are just Your pure imagination ...

prove it or stfu ...

Watch the attitude Dwarden. First and last warning - very close to flaming.

[thrush213 0]

oh god...so many things bad with steam...i'm sure they've all been mentioned. one thing i hate is lack of hard copy...another is download through internet. fast connection required. and if you're not close to their servers, having cable won't do squat.

not to mention the tedius steam application loadings, etc, etc. credic card required.

a big fat no for steam

[M4XSs 0]

I think everyone should understand yes or no for steam is BIS decision, as for most replays they have nothing to do with facts. Those usual lies (even if some of them were true) cracked hacked spyware wont work anymore. I really hope BIS don’t consider this topic while deciding and also the PB poll.

In the PB poll most people voting and discussing and I have real doubt that most of them never used it, regarding their concerns about mod making and other issues.

Dwarden clarified things more than once and that never helped.

[Dwarden 1125]

re: M4XSs

thanks but PB poll and thread are fine discussion so far http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=48247

42% voted for PB ... so let say 1/3 of players want some "strong" anticheat in game (minimum PB quality level or better ...

problem is mainly with people who don't understand concept and how it works ... (fear from new)

same it's with Steam ...

well it have lot of illness but in size and age it's success already

but like was said it's not alone e.g. there is freeware content distribution system for game MODS ! named Vapour http://www.vapour-online.com/

and xfire is trying to catch on this market too , from big players lets name e.g. Microsoft

[-kelet0r 0]

Having a hard copy is pointless in the digital age - its why digital distribution will be the future of retail

Now whether BIS decide to use their own system or get on board with a highly successful and popular system like Steam is their decision but I for one would hate for them to throw away a great commercial opportunity and innovative cost effective distribution technique because the technophobes on this forum are afraid

and i dont use the word technophobe lightly - the same arguments of oh i'll need a fast connection, or oh i dont want a program running that will take away from my 128mb ram

This is the 21st century people - get this, if you are one of those who think that steam would be a problem on your system you probably shouldnt be posting on this forum at all because you won't be able to play the game

for example i have a fairly average system, 3ghz P4, 512mb ram, 128 mb Radeon 9700 and I expect to be lucky to be able to run Armed Assault on all low settings

where you other people are coming from I dont know

The advantages of Digital Distribution

1. Saves BIS money

2. Download on Demand

3. No need for discs and registration keys

4. Instant updates

5. Buddy system

6. Access to new content at all times

7. 24/7 Support online

8. Helps prevent Cheating and Warez by preventing illegal copies accessing updates or playing online

Disadvantages and Myths

1. Takes up precious Ram - for example steam is using a whopping 5000kb right now, i better hope my system doesnt explode

2. Floods your system with spyware - The greatest online lie of all time - like dwarden said 'Prove it'

[Spoock 3]

My idea:

BIS made own system as steam, which it will be distribute their games.

Games will have CDKEYs for play over internet.

[-kelet0r 0]

My idea:

BIS made own system as steam, which it will be distribute their games.

Games will have CDKEYs for play over internet.

and common sense prevails

[martinovic 0]

You know what i'd like to see is a retail game released with a usb key. Wanna see if anyone can find a workaround. What affects does such a key have on price anyway?

[Radnik 18]

... there`s nothing else what can replace a nice game box with cd/dvd and ultra-sega-mega manual.

[Jezz 0]

Steam is fine aslong as its not the only distrebution method ie normal box in a shop also. The reason for this is fairly simple as can be seen by reading this thread a large amount dislike steam and online type paid downloads so as a result bis would be seriously reduceing there possible market to who they are selling and for something that is pretty niche game to start with it aint the best idea is it. the other reason is not everyone has or wants a credit card, not everyone has a conection where it is plausible to download a full game(56k ect).

for me anyway i want a box and nice shiny disk it will only take me 20min to go to shop and buy a game than wait 3+ hours for one to download. Box just makes it hell of alot easier for me and less frustration waiting watching a download bar moving at snails pace.

Traditional release + steam type = best of both worlds

Traditional release = suits me fine

Steam only = limiting possible market not everyone is willing to buy from many cant