Addon/Mod Ownership - Q&A.

[nephilim 0]

[offtime 0]

two Qs.

wasnt p3d file format developped by BIS ?

does creating addons in p3d format means being bound up with BIS license ?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

two Qs.

wasnt p3d file format developped by BIS ?

does creating addons in p3d format means being bound up with BIS license ?

Then you could say the same for the .psd format.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

two Qs.

wasnt p3d file format developped by BIS ?

does creating addons in p3d format means being bound up with BIS license ?

Then you could say the same for the .psd format.  

The difference is in the license agreement. Adobe's license doesn't prohibit the sale of content produced by the tool. BIS' O2 License does.

[llauma 0]

two Qs.

wasnt p3d file format developped by BIS ?

does creating addons in p3d format means being bound up with BIS license ?

If you have created the p3d file with an external tool it's okay but if the file has been saved in O2 it's bound to the O2 licence agreement.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

two Qs.

wasnt p3d file format developped by BIS ?

does creating addons in p3d format means being bound up with BIS license ?

Then you could say the same for the .psd format.

The difference is in the license agreement. Adobe's license doesn't prohibit the sale of content produced by the tool. BIS' O2 License does.

I know that, but perhaps I took a wrong forman for an example, lets say an .jpg, at least ten dozens of programs can make .jpg files.

EDIT: And as far as I know, O2 license doesn't say anything about .p3d file format, but I haven't read it carefuly.

[nephilim 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you have created the p3d file with an external tool it's okay but if the file has been saved in O2 it's bound to the O2 licence agreement.

yay!

halon all teh way

muahahha!!

[JdB 151]

There is a downside though. BIS has changed the .p3d extension, so .p3d files made with BIS tools are different from .p3d files made with 3rd party tools. They are not exchangeable.

Also, where were you planning to put the lods? As far as I know Oxygen is the only program to offer the possiblity to make more then one model in a single file. I haven't yet come across a program that can do this as well.

[ag_smith 0]

Also, where were you planning to put the lods? As far as I know Oxygen is the only program to offer the possiblity to make more then one model in a single file. I haven't yet come across a program that can do this as well.

p3dedit ?

[JdB 151]

p3dedit ?

That's not a publically available tool, so would only be true for 1% of the community or less.

[soul_assassin 1750]

Also, where were you planning to put the lods? As far as I know Oxygen is the only program to offer the possiblity to make more then one model in a single file. I haven't yet come across a program that can do this as well.

p3dedit ?

yeh but at its current state p3dedit does not allow sufficient tools to make models from scratch.

[andersgrim 0]

I recall an old tool by a-lone-wolf from way back merging 3ds models into a single p3d with lods. Never got to use it though.

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]In early 2005, after the first public announcement of DARWARS Ambush!, a litigation between BI and BBN arose over the use of BI's proprietary engine and tools within DARWARS Ambush!. The litigation has been settled and BBN’s use of BI Game Software and BI Tools in connection with DARWARS Ambush! is pursuant to a license.

In English that means that BIS contacted them, said "Naughty naughty, you need a license". Since Placebo ends with "pursuant to a license" and NOT "BBN purchased a license" I would say they never coughed up the dough. My guess is they have stopped work on it or changed engines or are seeking investment or just realised that VBS1 does the same thing except better.

From me personally I think BIS have done the right thing for themselves and the community, and called their bluff. Although my contribution to some of the addons used in the video is small and was given willingly, I'd be pissed off if they started making money from it.

Once again, BIS prove themselves to be a cut above the rest

[Placebo 29]

I've edited my first post to specifically address the BBN "DARWARS Ambush!" issue.

[raedor 8]

Quote[/b] ]Subsequent to the raised issue of community content being used without permission in “DARWARS Ambush!â€, representatives of Bohemia Interactive recently met with BBN (developers of “DARWARS Ambush!â€) to discuss the issue. BBN informed us that they have removed all community created content that had been used without permission. BBN provided a demonstration of “DARWARS Ambush!†and no unauthorised community content was apparent.

Thanks, BIS.

Quote[/b] ]It is important to note, military customers who use “Ambush!†under licence may subsequently download and use Flashpoint community created content without the permission/knowledge of BBN or Bohemia Interactive, unfortunately there is really no way to know if this is happening.

[Heatseeker 0]

They did it before and they might do it again in the future and just be quiet about it, i believe since BBN got license to explore OPF engine things will never be the same, i hope their product goes down the toilet because with all honesty it looked amateurish and the old OPF engine isnt good enough to simulate convoy operations, urban environments, a.i. behaviour in such environments, vehical damage, etc.

[offtime 0]

in ofp, you cant shoot when your assigned as cargo

simulate my ass if anyone will learn anything from "theyr product"

besides, anyone who saw own addon in theyr demo can sue them

making promotional video to advertise product and using for that someone else intelectual property is braking law

its commercial use of noncommercial content

and i didnt saw credits in this video sayng that they used others work, and whats more important, whos...

[max power 21]

Here it is:

http://creativecommons.org/

This is the creative commons license website. It has a selection of pre-made, LEGAL licenses for creative works. It displays the licenses both in legalese, and in an easy to understand breakdown. It also supplies a small image tag to display with your works on the internet that will link to the license on their website. It has license pages for video, sound and textual intellectual property, etc.

http://creativecommons.org/license/

This is where you select a license. You can build a custom one, or choose a pre-made one, such as a public domain license, a wiki license, the GPL open-source license, etc. I made my own and found the process to be quite painless.

http://creativecommons.org/about/think

Creative Commons has prepared a list of things to think about before you choose your own license. Among them, are questions like, ‘do you have the right to license the material you are licensing.’ For the OFP mod makers, in the context of this thread, it is possible for you to choose your own license.

http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/comics1

In case you’re having trouble understanding the gobble-dee-gook, creative commons has made a few cute little comics about the spectrum of rights and how the licenses work. They’re a light way to look at serious legal issues.

I’m about to link to the licensing information of my own personal project. I’m doing this to reduce the workload of this post. Don’t view this as a plug.

So, in order to protect the rights of the contributors, I sought out a limited license with some rights reserved. It allows the free distribution of the work, so long as it is intact, unmodified and unabridged and the work is appropriately attributed, and the license information is displayed with it. I take this to mean that it cannot be used as part of a larger production. For our uses, though, the models and such will be encoded, so releasing addon.pbo’s might require a stronger license for full protection.

http://www.spacecolonization.net/2080/viewtopic.php?t=138

This doesn’t allow our own project members to do much with the work except look at it, so we developed an internal waiver agreement. That allows us to modify the work ONLY for the project. It also states that we can’t rewind time to get stuff we’ve already released back, but that if anyone decides to rescind their membership, that their property will be immediately extracted from the project software.

http://www.spacecolonization.net/2080/viewtopic.php?t=143

So, if you want to modify a piece under our license for use, you have to be a member of the project, and you can only use it for the purposes of 2080. Also, the original author retains the right to his or her work.

There are a great many permutations of licenses you can create. I think that you may reserve all rights without going through this process, and simply put, ‘all rights reserved.’

I hope that this post opens your eyes to the many possibilities there are to protect your own work to the extent that you want it. Being able to waive your own rights by agreement also opens the door to different levels of protection to different kinds of people (your mod group as opposed to other mod groups, for example).

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask, and I’ll do my best to answer them. I’m only a user of these licences, however, and I don’t consider myself a legal expert of any kind.

[max power 21]

I'd like to call your attention to the explanation of the first page of the comic I linked to that clearly states that ALL work generated by you is FULLY PROTECTED whether you display a © or not. This means that unless you adopt a softer license, all of your rights are reserved and noone can do anything with what you have created without your permission. This includes all mods, if I understand BIS's intentions correctly. When you release these mods, I think that you should state your intentions in a text file so that others can be sure of your intentions (ie, free for personal use, but for any other uses, including release in a software bundle, the authors must first be contacted.. etc).

[gunterlund 0]

Quote[/b] ](Q:) If I create an addon using one of the tools provided free of charge by BIS who does the addon belong to?

(A:) Anything you create with our tools belongs to you entirely, you’re free to use it however you wish as long as you use it in a non-commercial way. You’re also free to allow someone else to use it or to refuse them permission to use it.

The only exception is if you wish to create something with our tools for use in a commercial venture, in that case you must contact BIS or BIA, or a company authorised to represent our rights in such matters to acquire a license.

Ok so here is a question.

If I find someone who is using my addon, and they are using it for the purposes of repackaging it and posting here on the forum FOR FREE, what legal recourse do I have if they did not ask for my permission. What If I say no to their request but they do it anyways.

My understanding is there is nothing I can do except complain. Am I right?

[gunterlund 0]

Quote[/b] ]In early 2005, after the first public announcement of DARWARS Ambush!, a litigation between BI and BBN arose over the use of BI's proprietary engine and tools within DARWARS Ambush!. The litigation has been settled and BBN’s use of BI Game Software and BI Tools in connection with DARWARS Ambush! is pursuant to a license.

In English that means that BIS contacted them, said "Naughty naughty, you need a license". Since Placebo ends with "pursuant to a license" and NOT "BBN purchased a license" I would say they never coughed up the dough. My guess is they have stopped work on it or changed engines or are seeking investment or just realised that VBS1 does the same thing except better.

From me personally I think BIS have done the right thing for themselves and the community, and called their bluff. Although my contribution to some of the addons used in the video is small and was given willingly, I'd be pissed off if they started making money from it.

Once again, BIS prove themselves to be a cut above the rest  

Actually this is standard practice for the protection of intellectual property. BIS did exactly the right thing. I have worked in the toy industry and "knockoffs" are common and you want to pursue them vigorously if they are trying to capitalize on it.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Ok so here is a question.

If I find someone who is using my addon, and they are using it for the purposes of repackaging it and posting here on the forum FOR FREE, what legal recourse do I have if they did not ask for my permission. What If I say no to their request but they do it anyways.

My understanding is there is nothing I can do except complain. Am I right?

You can sue them and anyone that knowingly distributes or allows others to distribute copyrighted materials. The last being any site or forums that posts links that allow others to download content that includes your materials.

So in plain English.  If a Total Conversions team were to use your addons and after you had notified them to remove your content and they ignored you.  You have the right to begin proceedings against them. (Costs Å52 to start proceedings in the UK)  One that same suit you can then list any other participants (these would be News sites, forums etc - but you would have to notify them of the issue prior to filing charges in the same way you must warn the Mod team/person using your addons, as far as i remember.)  The figure for damages is suggested by your lawyer/solicitor but usually the court decides the 'worth'

There is actual precedents for game related content from both companies and individuals suing for damages.  We (my former business partner and I) successfully sued a guy who was selling our entire 3DS back catalogue as his own work.  

Specifically relating to game addons, there are several cases where copyrighted materials were used for Unreal Tournament mods - the mods were with drawn prior to full proceedings in all but one case. This was a case where 1 guy used  another's models without consent - no big companies involved.  IIRC Damages were in about ~US$5000 against a 21 year old man from California.

Its up to you how far you take it but more often than not a polite warning usually works, if they ignore it after that then they obviously have no respect for your work and deserve to get sued.

[gunterlund 0]

Quote[/b] ]So in plain English.  If a Total Conversions team were to use your addons and after you had notified them to remove your content and they ignored you.  You have the right to begin proceedings against them. (Costs Å52 to start proceedings in the UK)  One that same suit you can then list any other participants (these would be News sites, forums etc - but you would have to notify them of the issue prior to filing charges in the same way you must warn the Mod team/person using your addons, as far as i remember.)  The figure for damages is suggested by your lawyer/solicitor but usually the court decides the 'worth'

What is the cost of the trial. Who is responsible for those costs

Quote[/b] ]There is actual precedents for game related content from both companies and individuals suing for damages.  We (my former business partner and I) successfully sued a guy who was selling our entire 3DS back catalogue as his own work.  

This does not appear to be what I was asking. In this case the gentleman claimed your material as his and was trying to profit from your material. If the mod properly authors your material as yours and is giving their material away for FREE since the original material was presented to the internet for free use, what is the recourse.

Quote[/b] ]Specifically relating to game addons, there are several cases where copyrighted materials were used for Unreal Tournament mods - the mods were with drawn prior to full proceedings in all but one case. This was a case where 1 guy used  another's models without consent - no big companies involved.  IIRC Damages were in about ~US$5000 against a 21 year old man from California.

Where can I find the specifics of this case?

Quote[/b] ]Its up to you how far you take it but more often than not a polite warning usually works, if they ignore it after that then they obviously have no respect for your work and deserve to get sued.

Agree that should usually do the trick to stop use of the material.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

What is the cost of the trial. Who is responsible for those costs

If you win, the loser pays all (reasonable) costs, the court will agree it as part of the settlement.  If you lose you may become liable for court costs. But it’s up to you to be 100% sure of your claim before proceeding.

This does not appear to be what I was asking. In this case the gentleman claimed your material as his and was trying to profit from your material. If the mod properly authors your material as yours and is giving their material away for FREE since the original material was presented to the internet for free use, what is the recourse.

Sorry, this is going be a long one but I wanted to be clear:

Right it depends on what you mean by “freeâ€.  People assume because it’s on the net its free to use how ever you want. This isn’t true. Current International copyright/Intellectual Property law states that the moment you create your “product†it is protected.  You own it and can dictate how it is used.  But if you are concerned with how it might be used you need to specify conditions.  This is called “reserving your rightsâ€.  So if you want to be sure you control how your ‘product’ is used you need to make the clear statement of the conditions. This might be a note in the readme or even a post on your website etc.  “The author reserves all rights for all content on these pages.†  That would cover any content you created, pictures, scripts, addons etc.  Or if you want to allow modification but want them to link back you your site you must explain that properly.

Going back to the “FREE†thing,  while you may not pay to download an addon or file etc you don’t own it and aren’t free to do with it as you please unless the author specifically relinquishes his/her rights.  In the case of addons etc, you are “granted a license to use itâ€.

So even if someone downloads a file/image/addon/video etc from my site and I don’t put a copyright statement with it I would still retain full ownership.  If  anyone wants to change/modify/adapt or include my “media†in their Mod they still have to ask permission to use it.

So any Mod or Conversion, were to use my materials in there “Product†even if unaltered they must still legally ask permission first.  The legal reason for this is that they are repackaging the original work in a “new†form for redistribution without the author’s consent.

Now in the specific case of this community and OFP etc, most people don’t mind their stuff being used.  (But they do expect the basic courtesy of being asked first.) Some people do however, for whatever their reasons (and they aren’t obliged to explain why) But should they feel strongly enough about its use the original authors have the right to prevent it being used or even sue.

Where can I find the specifics of this case?

I don’t have the link anymore – it was posted on a US News site and discussed on a few Unreal Tournament Community sites – it was early this year – sorry i can't be more specific,  I only came across it when I was researching our “back catalog caseâ€, it caused quite a fuss in some modding teams.

Agree that should usually do the trick to stop use of the material.

It should do but sadly it doesn’t always work.  There’s a big spat brewing with 2 BF2 modding teams and a 3D modeller, there are some post on the Creative Arts forums, about this very topic.  I know several people (including me) are writing articles around this situation.

[gunterlund 0]

Quote[/b] ]It should do but sadly it doesn’t always work. There’s a big spat brewing with 2 BF2 modding teams and a 3D modeller, there are some post on the Creative Arts forums, about this very topic. I know several people (including me) are writing articles around this situation.

Any links to this situation?

Thanks for the feedback.