The Middle East part 2

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

well 98% of turkey are Islamic and most of the country is in the middle east, what more do you want.  It has a large population of arabs.

I made a mistake with Armenia

[Garcia 0]

well 98% of turkey are Islamic and most of the country is in the middle east, what more do you want.  It has a large population of arabs.

I made a mistake with Armenia  

Accoring to this map Turkey is not a part of the arab world.

And it seem you look at an arab as a muslim. The fact that Turkey got shitloads of muslims doesn't mean a single one of them is an arab. Also, when Xawery refered to Lebanon as an arab nation, you pointed out that there were many people following other religions there. If you look here you can read the part about "Who is an Arab?". Also, if you look somewhere on this page, you will find that "arab" is listed under "Minor ethnic".

[scary 0]

How can israel leave it to lebonen to get rid of HBA when half there government is filled with there representatives singing for the destruction of israel.

Is it possible to have a debate on the ME without someone trotting out the tired old 'destruction of Israel' mantra? Four years ago all the Arab nation leaders, including Hizballah and the PA, unanimously agreed to recognise Israel according to the 1967 borders - no calls for destruction among them. Israel rejected it because of the 'threat of terrorism'.

Hizballah ruined it not Israel. Israel did kinda "gave an extra" hand with the bombings and all, but if Hizballah would'nt pull of that trick none of this would happen. {i'm not reffering to that "they started it first"}. Hizballah has no reason to fight in the first place, the Sheba farms are Syria's {and don't use that stupid arrgument of "They didn't ask them back" -> them not asking it back son't mean it belongs to Lebanon now}.

Perhaps Israel should give the Sheba'a Farms to Syria to stop any possible tensions arising. Of course, that still wouldn't alter the fact that Israel has been holding Lebanese PoWs long after the war - which it shouldn't be doing and was Hizballah's primary concern. Plus there is Israel refusing to supply maps to the minefields they planted. Ignoring the Sheba'a Farms still leaves at least two reasons.

It's interesting that you denounce Hizballah for capturing Israeli soldiers even though the IDF has been making similar incursions into Lebanon since the war ended as well as sonic boom flights in Lebanese air space.

Quote[/b] ]I think the cease fire is a stupid idea and Israel should mop up South Lebanon and wipe out all the terrorist in the south, the let and International Force to enter the south.

You do realise that Israel is losing, don't you?

Quote[/b] ]I think it was stupid to retreat in 2000 because we litterly let Hizballah build an empire in the south.The whole area was riddeld with bunkers & underground tunnels.

If Israel stopped bombing its neighbours back to the stone age perhaps those neighbours wouldn't consider Israel such a threat and, therefore, wouldn't find it necessary to build such defences.

Quote[/b] ]Btw, some of the Hizballah fighters are using IDF unifrom, so much for "Geneva Convention" {although they didn't sign it}.

When Mossad go on their kidapping/arresting missions around the world do they wear uniforms or dress as civilians? Do you think it was wrong of SOE agents to disguise themselves as Germans in WW2?

It's hardly a new or little used tactic: adapt and overcome.

As for all this human shield crap: Hizballah's bases are primarily underground networks, not hospitals/schools/orphanages. Hizballah's preferred places to be launching from are not playgrounds/refugee camps/puppy rescue centres, but plantations, because whilst in them the UAVs that direct the arty/LGBs cannot see them.

Bet Selem = The Israeli communist party. You can't use them as a news source.

B'tselem is a communist organization, founded by the Israeli communist party (Hadash). It's a political organization, and doesn't try to distance itself from its political stance, so it has even less credibility than HRW or AI have.

Even if this was true, which it isn't, how exactly does the economic ideologies of an organisation have any effect on the veracity of their claims. Following your logic, if someone in China was to say the sea is wet, they would be wrong.

May I direct you here.

Quote[/b] ]You know that when you tell me to, I will, and I will mop the fucking floor with your stupid arguments.

I am yet to see this happen.

being cocky dosnt make you cool

Possibly not. But being informed is always preferential.

Quote[/b] ]well 98% of turkey are Islamic and most of the country is in the middle east, what more do you want.  It has a large population of arabs.

Try again:

Arabs, name originally applied to the Semitic peoples of the Arabian Peninsula. It now refers to those persons whose primary language is Arabic. They constitute most of the population of Algeria, Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, the West Bank, and Yemen; Arab communities are also found elsewhere in the world. The term does not usually include Arabic-speaking Jews (found chiefly in North Africa and formerly also in Yemen and Iraq), Kurds, Berbers, Copts, and Druze, but it does include Arabic-speaking Christians (chiefly found in Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan). Socially, the Arabs are divided into two groups: the settled Arab [fellahin=villagers, or hadar=townspeople] and the nomadic Bedouin.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

ok point taken, but the other countries i listed still stand. Lebonen is not the only arab coutry that dosnt use stoning as a punishment.

[Nemesis6 0]

Communists or not, they are utter lefties like yourself Bernadotte, and, oh, look what I found when searching for one of the NGOs that fund Btselem on google - http://66.249.93.104/search?....refox-a

Could it be that if I bothered to do a search for each of those NGOs on the list, would I be able to uncover similar dirt? The guys who fund guys like these are generally nutjobs with a leftist agenda, like Diakonia.

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]Communists or not, they are utter lefties like yourself Bernadotte

Your "arguments" just get "better" and "better"

[scary 0]

Communists or not, they are utter lefties like yourself Bernadotte, and, oh, look what I found when searching for one of the NGOs that fund Btselem on google - http://66.249.93.104/search?....refox-a

Could it be that if I bothered to do a search for each of those NGOs on the list, would I be able to uncover similar dirt? The guys who fund guys like these are generally nutjobs with a leftist agenda, like Diakonia.

Wow, you've managed to find some nonsensical diatribe on the Internet. Who'd have believed it.

Perhaps you could explain what 'dirt' you've uncovered, as the only discernible complaint there seems to be this:

Quote[/b] ]Diakonia's support for highly political NGOs such as Physicians for Human Rights-Israel undermines its credibility as an NGO committed to promoting the universal application of international law.

Yet, as they say themselves:

Quote[/b] ]Diakonia, which describes itself as "a Christian development organization working together with local partners for a sustainable change for the most exposed people of the world."

As it is not 'an NGO committed to promoting the universal application of international law', how is its credibility as one undermined?

[Bernadotte 0]

Is it possible to have a debate on the ME without someone trotting out the tired old 'destruction of Israel' mantra?

In fact, a commonly used argument of Israeli government spokespersons against granting Palestinian refugees any right of return is that it will lead to the "destruction of Israel."  However, they do not argue that there would be a physical/military threat to the state.  Instead, they believe that letting in a large non-Jewish population will tip the nation's demographics away from being a majority Jewish state.  And that as soon as Israel would cease to be a majority Jewish State it could be considered "destroyed."

Perhaps Israel should give the Sheba'a Farms to Syria to stop any possible tensions arising.

As I understand it:

According to post-WWI maps drawn (badly) by the French, the Shebaa Farms was part of Syria's Golan Heights, however it was primarily settled by the Lebanese.  When Israel captured/annexed the Golan Heights they did not take the Shebaa Farms thinking it was Lebanese.  Later, they realised their mistake and, when they pulled out of South Lebanon in 2000, they kept the Shebaa Farms.  Since then, Syria has tried to disown it in support of Lebanon's claims.  So in a way, Israel has already given the Shebaa Farms to Syria, but they cleverly attached it to a part of Syria that Israel already captured from Syria.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

hmm, interesting, so its sort of a 3 way argumant but syria and lebonen sort of support each other in it

[xawery 0]

ok point taken, but the other countries i listed still stand. Lebonen is not the only arab coutry that dosnt use stoning as a punishment.

But that wasn't the crux of my argument... The point was, Lebanon was the only country where a woman could drink & smoke in public during Ramadan undisturbed, if you will. My remark wasn't about types of punishment, but the treatment of women.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

yeh thats cool, i can admit that your right. but why did israel go and shoot 2 HBA this morning? thats just silly and probably a stupid at by some soldiers that the army is trying to cover up.

[mattxr 9]

to ot for ot

this is why we dont want nuclear war with anyone from the middle east:

LGM-118A Peacekeeper missile system being tested at the Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

The lines shown are the re-entry vehicles -- one Peacekeeper can hold up to 10 nuclear warheads, each independently targeted. Were the warheads armed with a nuclear payload, each would carry with it the explosive power of twenty-five Hiroshima-sized weapons.

[mattxr 9]

thats 80 nuclear warheads just shown on that picture scary eh

[EiZei 0]

Well, if it makes you feel better, israel doesnt have MIRV'd ICBMs..

[mattxr 9]

im just wondering why someone has a defence system which could extinct the planet, why make something that powerfull when its never going to be used, who would use something like that unless an alian invasion was iminent.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

and whats more why the hell is it called the "peacekeeper"? it is all a massive waste of tax payers money. With the money spent on developing them they coud have fixed racial equality, or whats more re-build new orleans 2-3 times if not more.

[EiZei 0]

and whats more why the hell is it called the "peacekeeper".

Judging by the past 50 years id say it's a pretty appropriate name.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

really? they havnt kept peace at all.  Korea? Vietnam? i suppose they had nothing to do with the fact two countries has massises of nuklear warheads.

[EiZei 0]

really? they havnt kept peace at all.  Korea? Vietnam? i suppose they had nothing to do with the fact two countries has massises of nuklear warheads.

Still nothing compared to all-out war.

[booradley60 0]

thats 80 nuclear warheads just shown on that picture   scary eh

Actually, the re-entry vehicles are for each warhead, all of those in the picture are from the same missile.  Still, that's enough explosive power for 200 Hiroshima bombs.

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>Schematic drawing of a U.S. MX Missile (Peacekeeper) with W87 re-entry vehicles (which contain the warheads) indicated in red.</span>

[mp_phonix 0]

hmm . .

A "Grad" Rocket hit my city this morning. It hit the marina, I always hang out with my BFF there. I guess we won't be hanging out there for quait a long time now . .

[GoOB 0]

Atleast you still have water, electricity and your house left. For alot of people in Lebanon and Palestine it's alot worse than not being able to sail a boat at the weekends To me it's hard to imagine that being shelled doesn't create more sympathy for others in the same situation.

[Stealth3 0]

Well a truce is on. What did Israel achieve?

1. The kidnapped soldiers are still kidnapped.

2. Hezbolah isn't destroyed.

3. Hezbolah isn't disarmed.

4. Hezbolah is still present in the south.

5. They can still shoot rockets at Israel. They shot 250 yesterday.

So what did Israel achieve?

159 dead, hundreds of wounded, and best of all they did keep their promise and turned back Lebanon 20 years. Thats the only thing they said they would do which they actually did.

And now the Shaba farms are back on the negociation table. Israel came out of this worst than it was during the status quo.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

yes but quietly some Israelis probably feel they have achieved somthng by killing hundreds, most likely thousands of inocent Lebonese.

[Stealth3 0]

Here's something funny:

Quote[/b] ]IDF general: Soldiers may steal food from south Lebanon stores

"If our fighters deep in Lebanese territory are left without food our water, I believe they can break into local Lebanese stores to solve that problem," Brigadier General Avi Mizrahi, the head of the Israel Defense Forces logistics branch, said Monday.

Mizrahi's comments followed complaints by IDF soldiers regarding the lack of food on the front lines.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750384.html

Way to go IDF, and when the people become hostile, they are terrorists.

Best respons ever:

Quote[/b] ]I had no idea Israel was suffering from food shortages, perhaps the IDF started this war to get access to some food supplies from stores in south Lebanon. If you had told us before this war, that the IDF was in desperate need of food, we would have provided the IDF with food free of charge to avoid this war. After all, we are neighbours.

LOL

Quote[/b] ]They have stolen land, houses and now food and water. Not surprised.