theavonlady 2 Posted December 4, 2003 (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,21:50) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:35) said: (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,21:28) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:07) said: The fighting will end when Israel wakes up and fights a war to the finish. Really? Â With whom should Israel fight this "war to the finish?" The Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, who declared war on Israel in October 2000. How do you intend to identify them before rounding them up and finishing them off? Â I hope you don't expect them all to wear little yellow crescents on their sleeves. Haha! They start a war and we're the agressor. They shout "Slaughter the Jews" every chance they can and we're the Nazis. More twisted logic from Bernadotte and a lame attempt to put words in my mouth that I did not say. Like in every war, anyone who has a weapon in hand or attempts to harm anyone will be a target. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmgarcangel 0 Posted December 4, 2003 Did you know Avon that if you started a war against bassically a people with almost no army what so ever, the Palestinians, that would be cruel and unrightous. The world would turn on you, basically everyone. You live there with the Palestinians, get them out of the fucking camps, live with them in the terroritories, but have them live next door to you, with you, instead of living in designated homes. Its like you are fucking segragated. If you can't give up land, then share it. I mean hell, if I brought my budies and I over there and we lived in a apartment or two, would you guys segregate us into some place too? I mean come on, the Suicide bombings are one of the problems you Israeli's created by not giving them some land and segregating them into refugee camps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted December 4, 2003 (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,21:50) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:35) said: (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,21:28) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:07) said: The fighting will end when Israel wakes up and fights a war to the finish. Really? Â With whom should Israel fight this "war to the finish?" The Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, who declared war on Israel in October 2000. How do you intend to identify them before rounding them up and finishing them off? Â I hope you don't expect them all to wear little yellow crescents on their sleeves. Haha! They start a war and we're the agressor. I didn't say that. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: They shout "Slaughter the Jews" every chance they can and we're the Nazis. I didn't say that. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: More twisted logic from Bernadotte and a lame attempt to put words in my mouth that I did not say. LOL... I'm not the one around here always trying to put words in the mouths of others. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: Like in every war, anyone who has a weapon in hand or attempts to harm anyone will be a target. What makes you think Israel isn't already attacking every Palestinian who has a weapon in hand or attempts to harm anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted December 4, 2003 (Acecombat @ Dec. 04 2003,14:17) said: (bn880 @ Dec. 04 2003,18:29) said: 2 words: UN Intervention2 more: no justice LOL thats a nice dream I am sure any intervention by UN will be veteod by our worlds 'caretaker' US. What has Israel got to worry from the UN when its got a partner that practically veteos anything that has the word 'Israel' and 'condemn' or related to it. It's hillarious isn't it... and so is Avon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucket man 2 Posted December 4, 2003 I think Israel has caused most of the suicide bombings themselves. Was it Ariel Sharon who visited some holy place of muslims even/because he knew that it wouldnt take much to start another intifada? It is not wise to go in a same cage with a starving lion and start to slap its face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted December 4, 2003 (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,22:22) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,21:50) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:35) said: (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,21:28) said: (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:07) said: The fighting will end when Israel wakes up and fights a war to the finish. Really? Â With whom should Israel fight this "war to the finish?" The Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, who declared war on Israel in October 2000. How do you intend to identify them before rounding them up and finishing them off? Â I hope you don't expect them all to wear little yellow crescents on their sleeves. Haha! They start a war and we're the agressor. I didn't say that. You implied it. [b said: Quote[/b] ] (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: They shout "Slaughter the Jews" every chance they can and we're the Nazis. I didn't say that. Most clearly implied by the snide comment about the yellow crescent patches. [b said: Quote[/b] ] (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,20:57) said: Like in every war, anyone who has a weapon in hand or attempts to harm anyone will be a target. What makes you think Israel isn't already attacking every Palestinian who has a weapon in hand or attempts to harm anyone? There are 10s of thousand of weapons in Palestinian hands throughout Judea Samaria and Gaza. I see incursions, missions, targetted killings but no overall attempt to rid the area of every weapon intended to be used against Israel. They're all over the place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted December 4, 2003 (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:43) said: There are 10s of thousand of weapons in Palestinian hands throughout Judea Samaria and Gaza. I see incursions, missions, targetted killings but no overall attempt to rid the area of every weapon intended to be used against Israel. They're all over the place. Where do you draw the line? Â Plastic cuttlery? Â Toenail clippers? Â Rocks? How do you distinguish the rocks intended to be used against Israel from all the other rocks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted December 4, 2003 (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 04 2003,22:06) said: Did you know Avon that if you started a war against bassically a people with almost no army what so ever, the Palestinians, that would be cruel and unrightous. This people, with no army whatsover, has killed over a thousand of my countrymen. Would you tolerate this where you live. And they started the war - not us. [b said: Quote[/b] ]The world would turn on you, basically everyone. They already have - long ago. Sorry, some of us are tired of being killed to appease you. [b said: Quote[/b] ]You live there with the Palestinians, get them out of the camps Why were they in camps between 1948 and 1967, when they were under Jordanian and Egyptian control? Why were they kept in camps managed by the UN between 1967 and 1993? Why were they kept in camps when under full Palestinian control from 1993 till present? Why are they still kept in camps in Lebanon, far away from Israel's presence? You're pointing a finger at the wrong party. Get your history straight. [b said: Quote[/b] ]If you can't give up land, then share it. I have nothing per se against that statement but the Arabs sure do. [b said: Quote[/b] ]I mean hell, if I brought my budies and I over there and we lived in a apartment or two, would you guys segregate us into some place too? We have close to 2 million Israeli Arab citizens living here. There are no separate counters for Arabs in restaurants. There are no Jews-only park benchs. Arabs and Israelis share hospital rooms with each other. You don't know anything about us but what's being spoon-fed to you by hate mongerers, including those on this thread. [b said: Quote[/b] ]I mean come on, the Suicide bombings are one of the problems you Israeli's created by not giving them some land and segregating them into refugee camps Regarding camps, see above. Regarding giving land, what did Yitzhak Rabin do to carry out the Oslo Accords? What were the results? Less terrorism? Try getting at least a single fact straight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted December 4, 2003 (bn880 @ Dec. 04 2003,22:23) said: Â It's hillarious isn't it... and so is Avon... I'd rather be hillarious than be as lame as your posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted December 4, 2003 (Bernadotte @ Dec. 04 2003,22:54) said: Where do you draw the line? Â Plastic cuttlery? Â Toenail clippers? Â Rocks?How do you distinguish the rocks intended to be used against Israel from all the other rocks? RPGs, Kassam Rockets, M16's, AKs, grenades, roadside bombs, suicide bombers, booby traps, mines, pistols, knives, and rocks or anything else when intented to cause physical harm. Try asking your questions more maturely. I'm sure you knew the answer anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted December 4, 2003 (Bucket man @ Dec. 04 2003,22:29) said: I think Israel has caused most of the suicide bombings themselves. Was it Ariel Sharon who visited some holy place of muslims even/because he knew that it wouldnt take much to start another intifada? It is not wise to go in a same cage with a starving lion and start to slap its face. Â Arik Sharon visited the Temple Mount. It has been holy to the Jews for thousands of years, way before Islam existed. Numerous Jews, including top Israeli politicians visited the Temple Mount over the decades since Israel returned to Jerusalem in 1967. Read and learn. edit: Good night Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted December 4, 2003 (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,15:56) said: (bn880 @ Dec. 04 2003,22:23) said: It's hillarious isn't it... and so is Avon... I'd rather be hillarious than be as lame as your posts. Ok well, lets see now... so far, your posts are either pertaining to spam, FAQ stuff to generate traffic on your site (content which comes from mostly other users solutions), or this thread, where you are not making one valid argument. I don't see any logic making any of your posts in the entire thread being substantially correct on an issue. It is a bunch of contempt towards non Jews, and blatant thoughts of superiority of "your poeple". The posts are not lame, simply with facts there is not much to say to you, your posts are filled with "tri state logic" as it were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted December 4, 2003 Rewind the tape... Bernadotte: Â How do you distinguish the rocks intended to be used against Israel from all the other rocks? Avon: Â RPGs, Kassam Rockets, M16's, AKs, grenades, roadside bombs, suicide bombers, booby traps, mines, pistols, knives, and rocks or anything else when intented to cause physical harm. *sigh* But how can you tell the ones intended to cause physical harm from all the others? Â How will you be able to identify the intent? Â And how will you know when you've eliminated all the harmful intent? Â How will you know when you have finished your "fight to the finish?" Toughest Question of the Day: Â If all things were identically the same in the Middle East except you were Buddhist instead of Jewish would there still be Palestinians wanting to harm you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted December 5, 2003 [b said: Quote[/b] ][israel?s plan for expanding the segregation Zone in the West Bank [b said: Quote[/b] ] read the FAQ Well ,here's a piece on the subject related to the piece i brought forward with the current plan's of the segregation wal. * Why isn't the Security Fence built along the "Green Line"? The so called "Green Line" has never represented an international boundary. The 1949 armistice agreements specifically refer to this fact. There was never a recognized and legitimate sovereign in the West Bank. The legal status of these areas remains that of disputed territory- to be resolved through negotiations . It is this that is required by Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, which call for the parties to start negotiations , inter alia, on "secure and recognized boundaries", and agreements reached between the parties specifically refer to the need for direct negotiations to resolve this issue. * This is the most relevant piece and basicly says that ,since Palestina isn't recognized as an independant state there is actually an opportunity there for a mad landgrab for oportunists.I mean this is meant truly to justify theyre colonialism in the first place to ,and it's actually a very immoral point because it discard's any right's of the Palestinian's especially when it comes to owning land ,they are forced to abbide to the jews dictating how much land they take in "for security reason's" for their fence.Since in their oppinion basicly a Palestinian can't own land defacto since they don't live in a independant state. But then ,we can all to easily return to my point's of Jewish colonialism being wrong in the first place and the fact that the formation of the Palestinian state has been blocked by various reason's all since 1920. another piece of youre facts: * The Security Fence that is being built is intended to counter terrorism of the most brutal kind, not to dictate a border that is and remains the subject of permanent negotiations. It is our hope that by building this fence its very function will become irrelevant and that one day it will be dismantled. * This is really stupid.First of all ,while they claim that they don't want to dictate a border ,it is what they are exactly doing in the short term.And while they may claim that it is their strategy wich should permenantly solve the Palestinian question (afterall ,they hope that it would become irrelevant by it's completion) ,i can only presume that such an act would be a sign of much hostility towards the whole Palestinian people and that it would only fire more terrorist attack's ,therefore more justifying the very existance of that fence again.Not that i think that such a fence would be in any way effective ,it would require to much manpower to achieve the security that it intend's to make ,in this sence i doubt that it is ment primarily for security reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
farmcoot 0 Posted December 5, 2003 GJ Avon @bmarcangel, bucket man, and Bernadotte.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Major Fubar 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Farmcoot, you've been around long enough to know that those kind of images are considered spam here. 1st and last warning... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted December 5, 2003 (farmcoot @ Dec. 05 2003,04:15) said: GJ Avon  @bmarcangel, bucket man, and Bernadotte.... [snip]http://www.flamehq.com/albums/wpw-67/untitled-1a.jpg[/snip] Thanks for the pic, Farmcoot.  From now on whenever I see your name I'll be reminded of some poor fat kid with his head up his ass.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
farmcoot 0 Posted December 5, 2003 (Major Fubar @ Dec. 04 2003,21:56) said: Farmcoot, you've been around long enough to know that those kind of images are considered spam here.1st and last warning... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucket man 2 Posted December 5, 2003 (theavonlady @ Dec. 05 2003,04:07) said: (Bucket man @ Dec. 04 2003,22:29) said: I think Israel has caused most of the suicide bombings themselves. Was it Ariel Sharon who visited some holy place of muslims even/because he knew that it wouldnt take much to start another intifada? It is not wise to go in a same cage with a starving lion and start to slap its face. Â Arik Sharon visited the Temple Mount. It has been holy to the Jews for thousands of years, way before Islam existed. Numerous Jews, including top Israeli politicians visited the Temple Mount over the decades since Israel returned to Jerusalem in 1967. Read and learn. edit: Good night My point wasnt that Ariel Sharon caused intifada. Sorry if my text was unclear. My point was that if you know that there is a lion in a cage that would very much like to eat you and has been planning to do so you really shouldnt go into its cage and start poking it with a stick. Maybe intifada was planned long time before Sharon visited the Temple Mount. His visit was a great opportunity for fundamentalists to start this intifada. Sharon gave another reason more to hate israelis. Without this visit it would have not been so easy to get normal palestinian supporting it. Another that causes much hate is that fence they are building. It really wont offer significant protection from terrorists but will cause normal palestinians to hate Israel more. Without support of normal people those fundamentalists cant continue bombing very long. They wouldnt have places to hide weapons and explosives, no new recruits or places to hide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmgarcangel 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Actually I just found out that the Palestinians are aloud to come out and live in the general public. They can get out of the camps and stuff. But the problem is, they are aloud but they don't want to. Reason = they will be buying food from the Israeli's, living with them, and other stuff.....they consider that traitorise. And another thing, Avon, you've killed more of there country men then they you from what i've heard. Ever hear for every Israeli death, 5 palestinians die Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Acecombat 0 Posted December 5, 2003 (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 05 2003,23:09) said: Actually I just found out that the Palestinians are aloud to come out and live in the general public. Â They can get out of the camps and stuff. Â But the problem is, they are aloud but they don't want to. Â Reason = they will be buying food from the Israeli's, living with them, and other stuff.....they consider that traitorise. Â Thats got to be one of the classic examples of how dubious a cmment can be with a few wrong spellings. Mind fixing it ? I dont understand if its 'aloud' or 'allowed' , it changes the meaning significantly , plus the 'traitorise' No offense we all make some but its making your statement very blurry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bernadotte 0 Posted December 6, 2003 (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: (bmgarcangel @ Dec. 04 2003,22:06) said: Did you know Avon that if you started a war against bassically a people with almost no army what so ever, the Palestinians, that would be cruel and unrightous. This people, with no army whatsover, has killed over a thousand of my countrymen. Would you tolerate this where you live. This people with no army who you are at war with are 3.5 million of the poorest people on the planet. Â Only a small fraction of them have any blood on their hands. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: And they started the war - not us. I suppose you expect us to believe that 750,000 people in 1947 - 49 simply decided one day to abandon their ancestral homes, farms and villages in favour of spending the rest of their lives in refugee camps. Â Israel had nothing at all to do with that, eh? Â lol (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: [b said: Quote[/b] ]The world would turn on you, basically everyone. They already have - long ago. Sorry, some of us are tired of being killed to appease you. Â Bmgarcangel is appeased by the killing of Jews? Â How did theavonlady find that out? Was it something bmgarcangel said or is it just another one of Avon's persecution fantasies. I'm sure glad that Avon would never put words in someone else's mouth. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: [b said: Quote[/b] ]You live there with the Palestinians, get them out of the camps Why were they in camps between 1948 and 1967, when they were under Jordanian and Egyptian control? Avon Logic: Â The Jordanians and Egyptians are guilty for NOT letting the Palestinian refugees starve to death. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: Why were they kept in camps managed by the UN between 1967 and 1993? Avon Logic: Â The UN is guilty for NOT letting the Palestinian refugees starve to death. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: Why were they kept in camps when under full Palestinian control from 1993 till present? Avon Logic: Â The Palestinian Authority is guilty for NOT letting the Palestinian refugees starve to death. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: Why are they still kept in camps in Lebanon, far away from Israel's presence? Avon Logic: Â The Lebanese are guilty for NOT letting the Palestinian refugees starve to death. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: [b said: Quote[/b] ]If you can't give up land, then share it. I have nothing per se against that statement but the Arabs sure do. Of course you have nothing against that statement because it does not reflect what happened. Bmgarcangel should have said, "If you can't give back land then share it." And "the Arabs" you speak of are not guilty of having taken the Palestinians' homeland in the first place. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: [b said: Quote[/b] ]I mean hell, if I brought my budies and I over there and we lived in a apartment or two, would you guys segregate us into some place too? We have close to 2 million Israeli Arab citizens living here. Be sure to read the fine print, bmgarcangel. Â Avon is conveniently forgetting to tell us about the other ~3 million Arabs living there who are not even allowed to become citizens. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: There are no separate counters for Arabs in restaurants. There are no Jews-only park benchs. Arabs and Israelis share hospital rooms with each other. Wow!! Â Israel has an equal rights policy allowing free access to hospital rooms, restaurants and park benches for all. Â You must be very proud. Sorry to burst your bubble, but ReliefWeb.org sees things a bit differently: [b said: Quote[/b] ]As Palestinian citizens of Israel, the internally displaced also face overt discrimination in the provision of governmental services as compared to Jewish citizens of Israel. (theavonlady @ Dec. 04 2003,21:55) said: [b said: Quote[/b] ]I mean come on, the Suicide bombings are one of the problems you Israeli's created by not giving them some land and segregating them into refugee camps Regarding giving land, what did Yitzhak Rabin do to carry out the Oslo Accords? Rabin was doing plenty, according to the Israeli guy who assassinated him: [b said: Quote[/b] ]A Palestinian state is starting to be established because of Rabin's policies. Â Fifty percent were Arabs at the peace rally where Rabin spoke minutes before he was shot. Â What do you want, for them to bury us in our own state? Â Rabin wants to give our country to the Arabs.-- Yigal Amir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Acecombat 0 Posted December 11, 2003 US Plans to Step Up Pressure on Syria Reuters MADRID/BRUSSELS, 11 December 2003 — A US congressional committee plans to visit Syria to press President Bashar Assad to cooperate more in the war on terrorism at a time when Washington is threatening Damascus with sanctions. Members of the Homeland Security Committee are visiting US allies in Europe and the Middle East to thank them and shore up cooperation against extremists. But committee Chairman Christopher Cox said yesterday they would also visit Syria “with somewhat a different message†based on the Syrian Accountability and Lebanese Sovereignty Restoration Act, passed by Congress last month. “Our message to President Assad will be essentially word for word what Congress has enunciated in the Syria Accountability Act,†Cox told a news conference in Madrid, first stop on a trip that will also take the group to Italy, Turkey and Israel. “We look for substantially increased cooperation from Syria when it comes to combating terrorism,†said Cox, a California Republican. Assad normally meets US congressional delegations when they visit Damascus. The act, not yet signed into law by US President George W. Bush, asks him to impose sanctions if Syria does not cut ties with Hamas, Hizbollah and Islamic Jihad — Palestinian groups that Syria says legitimately resist Israeli occupation of Arab land. The act says it aims to “halt Syrian support for terrorism, end its occupation of Lebanon, stop its development of weapons of mass destruction, cease its illegal importation of Iraqi oil, and hold Syria accountable for its role in the Middle East.†Should Bush determine Syria is not cooperating, he could impose sanctions, one of which could bar US firms from trading in oil owned by Syrian state-owned entities. Other sanctions could block US exports to Syria other than food and medicine, bar US firms from investing or operating in Syria, and prevent Syrian diplomats in Washington and at the United Nations in New York from traveling outside a 40-km radius of either city. Syrian officials have countered that the measure could hurt US oil companies, harm US-Syrian ties and send the wrong signal to the Arab world. Meanwhile, the European Union yesterday announced a breakthrough in talks with Syria on a political and economic cooperation pact, underlining its determination to engage with a country Washington has sought to isolate. “We managed yesterday in Damascus to reach an understanding with the Syrian side on all remaining issues in the negotiations for a Euro-Mediterranean association agreement,†said Diego De Ojeda, a spokesman for the executive European Commission. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPQR 0 Posted December 12, 2003 Another try to solve complex problems with simple solutions, even if it has be be taken in account in any peace process in Middle East Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
python3 0 Posted December 13, 2003 in other news today, another load of hypocrisy from the U.S... Syrian Sanctions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites