AH-64 Pack Release

[KeyCat 131]

Thanks for the heads-up KyleSarnik... While waiting for next version I get my fix in Longbow 2, still rocking and looks awesome in 1290x960 max AA and FA

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[gatordev 218]

what are the values for autorotation landing for a apache helicopter? As in what speed and height is the minimum and maximum in which you could still autorotate back to earth?

Because not many helicopters in ofp fly that good! Ive only had like 4 helicopters that could pull it off. Engine shutdown and stick forward... Dive and pull up just above ground and then slide it onto the ground.

Since we're bordering on going off topic here, I'll keep it quick. I believe the last time I flew this addon, I was able to auto it successfully. I've done it w/ Vit's cobra and Hind as well. I think the BAS birds are capable, too, but only if you have some forward airspeed. On Vit's choppers, you can even be in a high hover and kill the engine, and either dump the collective and cushion at the bottom, or try to scoop it out, get some airspeed, and then flare at the bottom (which is actually the "real" way to do it).

To answer your question, Manhunter, it depends. Basically the lower and faster you are, the harder it becomes to recover (to the point of impossible). I actually think OFP simulates this pretty well, given the limits of it's flight models.

And sorry, I can't resist... Pappy, I hear what you're saying, but that's the common misconception about water. It's actually "easier" to auto or ditch into land because the lack of compressibility of water. When you hit the water, you want to have zero airspeed, otherwise you come to an abrupt stop, which as you've said, can be very painful. On land, you can slide the helo, either on it's wheels or skids, so you don't have to get all the airspeed off. There was a guy at my last squadron who did a full auto over the water and while he is still flying, he looks like a human question mark because the impact messed everyone up pretty bad.

But....... A removable helmet would be awesome!

[Big Dawg KS 6]

But.......  A removable helmet would be awesome!  

Yes of course, and I agree, and don't forget you are looking at the guy who made the helmet falling off when shot addons/scripts so I will include something like that then but probably via the action menu. As for the flight suit, I will contact laser about it but I am pretty sure that depends on the origin of the pilot (many countries fly AH-64s). And yes the IHADSS display and visor will be animated and you will be able to play around a bit with all of his cool gear .

[gatordev 218]

Kyle, good point. I'm approaching it from the a US-centric perspective. In general, the flight suits are worn unbloused for fire protection reasons. Just to give some perspective. I thougth the Brits had theirs unbloused also, but I'm not certain. Anyone else?

Your helmet option sounds great.

[tankieboy 0]

I thougth the Brits had theirs unbloused also, but I'm not certain.

Sounds right to me.

[Messiah 2]

oh yea like i said its not impossible to walk away.. just rare. now its more likly over water cuz its a softer landing

ever hit water at anything faster than 30mph?

it's the same as concrete - somethings only as soft as how fast it gives way to you and react to you - at the speed of a crashing aircraft, rotary or fixed wing you may as well have slammed into a brick wall

[shadow 6]

what are the values for autorotation landing for a apache helicopter? As in what speed and height is the minimum and maximum in which you could still autorotate back to earth?

In OFP its very hard to make an autorotational landing, unless you're very high up and expect your engines to fail.

The real Apache's preferred forward speed for autorotational landing is 60-70 knots. Altitude does not come into it.

A fully combat loaded AH-64D Apache Longbow with 16HF-RF weighs ~17.000lbs.  ...... 60 knots... ~30% collective: minimum rate of descent: 2100 ft/min.

98 knots is the optimum speed for max glide distance but descent rate is 2800 ft/min.

I don't see any values for max descent rate but the diagram in the manual of Jane's LB2 stops at 5000 ft/min.

The gear is made to absorb 100% of the impact up to 2600 ft/min (no structural damage).

It is not uncommon for a Apache crew to walk away from a crash site on their own legs.

It's quite handy the optimum descent rate is identical to NOE forward speed: 60-70knots  

Cool model that crew, Kyle. Top quality as always coming from Laser.

What do you guys mean "unbloused"?

I dont see anything wrong with that uniform.

[tankieboy 0]

Trousers at ankle "untucked".

[gatordev 218]

In OFP its very hard to make an autorotational landing, unless you're very high up and expect your engines to fail.

The real Apache's preferred forward speed for autorotational landing is 60-70 knots. Altitude does not come into it.

A fully combat loaded AH-64D Apache Longbow with 16HF-RF weighs ~17.000lbs.  ...... 60 knots... ~30% collective: minimum rate of descent: 2100 ft/min.

98 knots is the optimum speed for max glide distance but descent rate is 2800 ft/min.

I don't see any values for max descent rate but the diagram in the manual of Jane's LB2 stops at 5000 ft/min.

The gear is made to absorb 100% of the impact up to 2600 ft/min (no structural damage).

It is not uncommon for a Apache crew to walk away from a crash site on their own legs.

It's quite handy the optimum descent rate is identical to NOE forward speed: 60-70knots  

Cool model that crew, Kyle. Top quality as always coming from Laser.

What do you guys mean "unbloused"?

I dont see anything wrong with that uniform.  

I agree full autorotations are hard in OFP (it's not a flight sim afterall), but I can do practice autos all day at about 200 feet w/out a problem.

As for your stats, Shadow, well, they're kind of out to lunch. Of course the main reason is because you're quoting Jane's LB2, which while an awesome game, had a flight model that was completely opposite of reality. I know we're going off topic here, so if we want to start another FM topic, we can, but here's the basics...

While the forward speed may be 60-70 knots (which I kind of doubt, w/ that tiny tailwheel, but I don't know the Apache well enough), the altitude does matter because of reaction time. There's a diagram called a "Height/Velocity diagram" that shows if you're too low and too fast, the descent rate will be too much before you can recover, and the rotor system may actually fall below a recoverable speed as well. As for weight, it actually isn't as much of an issue (you actually fall slower the heavier you are). Hell, we're happy if we did an auto (practice or otherwise) at only 17,000 lbs. It's more a matter of overcoming the inertia of heavy aircraft falling.

I really don't know what it means when it says "30% collective" with a "minimum rate of decent" of 2100 fpm. I'm thinking this is a game-ism, since in an auto, your collective is almost full down. I can go into more detail about how the max glide auto works, but that's not really important. However, the 60-70 knots is also the Max Power Available airspeed, I imagine.

I highly doubt that the gear can withstand 2600 fpm, but I'm not an Apache guy. For comparison, an SH-60, which has some substantially upgraded gear for crashing into the flight deck everyday, can only take up to 720 fpm (something I think I've tested once or twice ), and that's on level terrain. It goes down as the terrain gets rougher.

Sorry for going way off topic, but just wanted to correct some misconceptions (LB2 being one of them).

[meyamoti 0]

It is a very nice pilot,I do think its sort of being wasted though...not to be rude or anything but its the original apache.

[tankieboy 0]

It is a very nice pilot,I do think its sort of being wasted though...not to be rude or anything but its the original apache.

I for one think we need a pilot. No doubt it will have some nice scripts as hinted about in previous posts.

[meyamoti 0]

Oh I didn't mean that it should exist,far from it,I just mean it seems rather wasteful to keep using the original apache,I mean what? Almost every unit has had some new texture or model made in its place except the apache,well except the chinook,everyone seems to think its fine and I'm content with that.

EDIT: and the shilka,that things only gone through maybe 2 desert textures and hasn't been touched since.

[tankieboy 0]

There are loads of new AH-64's out. Are you mad?

[meyamoti 0]

Loads? All I'v seen is original modified to some extent.

and mad? feelin,nah,mental,yeah

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Loads? All I'v seen is original modified to some extent.

and mad? feelin,nah,mental,yeah  

In my case, this "some extent" is very very far, I have redone MANY of the parts on the Apache model that the textures are probably the only thing that give it away as being a modified BIS model. It has a new cockpit, nose, wing pylons, engines and intakes, rotors, chain gun, wheels, and other modifications such as an extended tail boom and some other, smaller, less noticable modifications that make it more accurate. And I am not sure if Marco has any plans to make new textures for the OD version but if he did it would probably be hard to tell it was a modified BIS model. I will have pictures soon so just wait.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Well, without Marco's approval yet, I have decided to start adding the weapon models for ingame switching of loadouts and once again their is the conflict between ATAS and AIM-9, so I figured I would ask the community. The AH-64D models will come standard with either two AIM-9 sidewinder missiles OR 4 tube launched air-to-air stinger missiles (ATAS). The ATAS is currently more realistic but the apache can carry both of these weapons IRL. Please share your opinions. I myself am leaning more towards the ATAS but I do not want to just abandon the AIM-9s. I could possibly do 2 versions, 1 with ATAS and one with AIM-9, but nothing is decided yet.

[AgentFox2 0]

In my opinion, the AIM-9s are cool, but they have a range of 5-10km. In OFP, you're not going to engage an aircraft farther than 2-3km, due to the viewdistance. The FIM-92s would fit this sort of range better, I think, especially considering they're only supposed to be self-defense weapons.

Also, it would feel a bit weird with stingers or sidewinders hanging off the stubs in a tactical situation where there are no enemy aircraft left. That's why my vote is for the bog-standard versions to be without any air to air missiles, and then a separate version with the ATAS for self-defense.

Just my humble opinion.

[shadow 6]

Oh no...not that subject again

I agree with Agentfox2.

One with and one without. I'd forget about the Aim-9 and stick with the FIM-92s. I don't care about the range. Both of them have longer range than what is beeing used in OFP, but 4 is more than 2 and a Stinger is deadly enough.

[-HUNTER- 1]

has anybody ever seen a apache with Sidewinders? a cobra yes but I cannot remember ever seeing one... pics or real life... They use stingers for AA and the gun would be able to shoot down aircraft?>?

[KeyCat 131]

Hi KyleSarnik,

I agree with some of the posters above and for me the ATAS would be enough to have decent air-defence. More important for me is if you managed to add working LOAL/LOBL profiles for the Hellfires?

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Hi KyleSarnik,

I agree with some of the posters above and for me the ATAS would be enough to have decent air-defence. More important for me is if you managed to add working LOAL/LOBL profiles for the Hellfires?

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

Yes, the LOBL and LOAL scripts work but the best results occur only when the chopper is stationary (for the LOAL at least). This adds a bit of realism I guess since apache pilots IRL are trained to shoot while in a hover, so hopefully this well result in less people trying to charge in with their apache quickly firing off hellfires on the move . Ok then, I will not make the stingers standard nor the AIM-9s, but I will add both as optional loadouts (Simply add either of the weapon classnames to the apache in the editor and they will appear).

Ok enough boring talk, here are some pictures of the new model again (with old textures) I know it still looks like the BIS one but once it is retextured it will look A LOT nicer:

-This is just to show the extended tail boom, and I do agree it looks a lot more accurate now that its longer.

-This just shows the differences between the new model and the BIS model, now you can see exactly what I have changed (a lot).

-A shot of the details and new parts that I made. Many of these things shown are parts made from scratch. (Gun, wheels, engine things, etc..)

Please excuse the quality of the screenshots but my graphics settings are rather low and I know very little about editing screenshots .

[KeyCat 131]

Yes, the LOBL and LOAL scripts work but the best results occur only when the chopper is stationary (for the LOAL at least). This adds a bit of realism I guess since apache pilots IRL are trained to shoot while in a hover, so hopefully this well result in less people trying to charge in with their apache quickly firing off hellfires on the move .

YAY! Sounds very good KyleSarnik!

Hopefully the LOAL/LOBL scripts are MP compatible so we finally can have some human spec ops doing the lazing with the LD and the AH-64D safely hovering behind hills etc...

Great work!

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Yes, the LOBL and LOAL scripts work but the best results occur only when the chopper is stationary (for the LOAL at least). This adds a bit of realism I guess since apache pilots IRL are trained to shoot while in a hover, so hopefully this well result in less people trying to charge in with their apache quickly firing off hellfires on the move .

YAY! Sounds very good KyleSarnik!  

Hopefully the LOAL/LOBL scripts are MP compatible so we finally can have some human spec ops doing the lazing with the LD and the AH-64D safely hovering behind hills etc...

Great work!

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

Yes, and I might be able to work out a script to allow you to lock on to laser targets from behind hills and other sources of cover, something thats difficult to do in OFP since you can usualy only lock on to things you can either see visualy or your radar detects, and radar won't work behind a hill. But hopefully I will be able to make a script to allow for you to lock on to the laser target no matter where it is.

[KeyCat 131]

Yes, and I might be able to work out a script to allow you to lock on to laser targets from behind hills and other sources of cover, something thats difficult to do in OFP since you can usualy only lock on to things you can either see visualy or your radar detects, and radar won't work behind a hill. But hopefully I will be able to make a script to allow for you to lock on to the laser target no matter where it is.

That would be very welcomed (for our group at least) and maybe something like the following will work???

1. Get the LD position on the ground/object.

2. Setpos Lesters invisible target Laser east (LesILETA) object to the same X-Y cordinates but elevate it lets say 200 m up in the air so the AH-64D hovering behind cover gets LOS to it and thereby can lock.

3. While Hellfire is fired somehow "redirect" it to the real LD position.

Just an idea... If you come up with something that works and need it tested in MP just let me know.

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[xnodunitx 0]

-A shot of the details and new parts that I made. Many of these things shown are parts made from scratch. (Gun, wheels, engine things, etc..)

Please excuse the quality of the screenshots but my graphics settings are rather low and I know very little about editing screenshots .

Yep,nice Franze M230