AH-64 Pack Release

[FerretFangs 0]

I will say this, I think they do look cool....

[shadow 6]

As far as I can read there are no jammers in those pods. The only countermeassures is the flare-launcher. The rest are sensors reporting laser/IR-tracking and locking. It's part of the ASE (or AMASE as they call it in that PDF). The Apache has always had IR and Radar sensors but you can never have enough of those aboard. Sounds to me as the smart move. It does'nt waste payload space either because (this has been discussed to death) the Apaches never use Stingers and especially not Sidewinders anyway.

Manhunter09, can you please continue stick your camera into all kinds of parts of the Apaches and just fire away?

Always interesting. Maybe even get a direct picture of the pits and both collectives?

[xnodunitx 0]

Well I hope this project continues to go well,seeing as how my main comp crashed,believed to be a motherboard issue,progress as far as textures won't continue for perhaps 2 weeks (hopefully max)

I do have one question though,this bears no ill will I'v just been wondering,why do you stick with the BIS apache? Sure you might say its not BIS but only some things are changed,why stick to it when a much more accurate model was released? Do you dislike the person who made it,are you trying to keep the face count the BIS one has?

[-HUNTER- 1]

Manhunter09, can you please continue stick your camera into all kinds of parts of the Apaches and just fire away?

Always interesting. Maybe even get a direct picture of the pits and both collectives?

Sorry, I had a real shitty situation and it was called battery flat! After the shot of the side pod it when boom and shutdown!

The pictures where taken at the Dutch army show. and you could not get into the cockpit this is the only angle I could shoot into the cockpit im afraid I cannot do better then these...

I really HATED it when it happened and shouted F... really loud! Also had CH-47D planned, and more Apache shots, not to mention all the different armour systems and guns... The cam is 6 Megapixel and didnt cost a thing compared to other digicams! Very nice little thing! Only the zoom is a bit on the poor side, but it makes up for that with the 2018x1024 shots it makes!

And the bigest problem was that I had allready seen like 100 things I would want to photograph, but I had to wait for all the ppl to go home so I could get better shots!

in few weeks there is a dutch airforce airshow and then I can try again to get some nice shots from the apache....

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Well I hope this project continues to go well,seeing as how my main comp crashed,believed to be a motherboard issue,progress as far as textures won't continue for perhaps 2 weeks (hopefully max)

I do have one question though,this bears no ill will I'v just been wondering,why do you stick with the BIS apache? Sure you might say its not BIS but only some things are changed,why stick to it when a much more accurate model was released? Do you dislike the person who made it,are you trying to keep the face count the BIS one has?

Well, because the BIS model is allready there, and that gives us something to start with. Making a completly new model from scratch would not only take a LOT more time, but would also make it even harder to get it to look right. For the most part, the BIS apache is a good representation of the apache, and the only things that need changing are rather easy to fix. It is easier to keep the good things and change the bad things than to start with nothing and try and make everything look right. As for this model you speak of, I dunno what you are talking about, and if there had been any good correct AH-64 models allready released then I would have been all over it, but so far nobody has released such a good model.

[franze 196]

Just a quick note: it can take anywhere from 12 to 20 hours to model any type of object with detail for a average modeler.

[-HUNTER- 1]

and you mean that like?

>>> Thats not long at all...

or

>>> Have you got any idea to how long that would take!!

?

Because why not make the best apache ever seen and make all the fans go woow

[Big Dawg KS 6]

and you mean that like?

>>> Thats not long at all...

or

>>> Have you got any idea to how long that would take!!    

?

Because why not make the best apache ever seen and make all the fans go        woow

Um, from what I got from that post, thats my aim, to make the only apache pack anyone would ever need, that might translate to the best for some of you, but all it really means is that we are trying to put into it as much as possible so that it fits everyones needs.

As for the model, franze, in order to make it a high quality model, more than 12 hours is needed, especialy for an apache. And if you still think that starting from scratch is better, I have an example here. BAS did not start from scratch with their blackhawks, all of the models were based off of the BIS ones that they had aquired, and I don't really see anyone complaining about their models. Anyways, when this is done it will be just as good.

Also, just to let you know, there are some technical difficulties occuring on Marco's end, and it is probably going to slow us down a bit.

[dm 9]

BAS did not start from scratch with their blackhawks, all of the models were based off of the BIS ones that they had aquired, and I don't really see anyone complaining about their models. Anyways, when this is done it will be just as good.

Actually, the entire 1st, 2nd, cargo, pilot and gunner lods are all brand new. The only BIS parts are the low resolution lods, which are hardly ever seen except for at extreem range.

[franze 196]

As for the model, franze, in order to make it a high quality model, more than 12 hours is needed, especialy for an apache. And if you still think that starting from scratch is better, I have an example here. BAS did not start from scratch with their blackhawks, all of the models were based off of the BIS ones that they had aquired, and I don't really see anyone complaining about their models. Anyways, when this is done it will be just as good.

It took me about 15 hours or so, spread across two days to do a AH-64, and this was back before I had as much experience. This is for the main external model - LOD 1, if you will. Additional details will no doubt take additional time, but the basic model can be completed anywhere from 12 to 20 hours of time; naturally, it can be slower if you don't have as much time to get the main "restricted" parts finished. (By restricted, I mean the main fuselage parts, tail boom or any well defined structures of the object.)

I understand that not everyone can model like the guys who did LOTR models, but it's really not as difficult (especially for OFP) as you make out. The key thing is to find good blueprints, which is usually the biggest task. It's difficult to model a constrained object without detailed blueprints.

Deadmeat has already said that the BAS UH-60s were, for the most part, entirely new models, so I think it makes a difference. It is part of the pie, after all.

Additionally, I believe the BIS AH-64 was based off of awkward blueprints which might lead to the reason why it looks funny. I've found some blueprints that tend to have a similar outline as the BIS AH-64 - perhaps they based their model off of these blueprints.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

BAS did not start from scratch with their blackhawks, all of the models were based off of the BIS ones that they had aquired, and I don't really see anyone complaining about their models. Anyways, when this is done it will be just as good.

Actually, the entire 1st, 2nd, cargo, pilot and gunner lods are all brand new. The only BIS parts are the low resolution lods, which are hardly ever seen except for at extreem range.

Perhaps, but I see little difference in overall structural design.

Back on topic, this thread is for updates on the apache, not discussion of other peoples models. Now I will probably be working by myself for the next few days because Marco has some computor problems, and because I allready have a lot to do, I doubt very much will get done durring this time. As for the current model, it is very close to being finished, and most of the work needed to be done is just replicating the changes in the resto f the LODs.

More importantly, my pilot project is going to be hard to do, I do not yet even have any models. I am willing to except help from someone who has had experience with modeling troops before to try and get some pilots, but I am not sure how far I will be able to get with them.

[Harmed 0]

Why dont you guys combine the 2 apaches, the MFD's from Marco's the fuselage and rotors and the undercarriage from franze's and the scripting from Kyle, and then let a good texturer put a nice looking texture on it! and youre done exept from some details

[xnodunitx 0]

I don't think that will happen,these 3 people arent exaclty...well lets just say it seems like their in competition,I was already working on the textures,whenever I get my main computer back up and running I will continue them,you will find no BIS or Helifreak or Silesian (sorry if I mispelled it) textures on it,98% or 99% will be done fresh by me,most in 1024x1024 or 1024x512 n so on to keep rivet detail.

Kyles scripting would help,Franze said himself that he believes that Kyle is 10x better than he is at scripting,sorry Franze that was not meant to be a diss.

Kyle is good with his scripting but I working on the BIS apache...or the BOH one just doesnt really suit my fancy,I have found Franze's to be much more accurate,hell you can compare screenshots,the problem I have with the interior of the BIS models which seemingly have stayed with ALL helicopter packs,except Franze,maybe a few texture differences but all in all they are the same,it just seems to small. Irl they are not that small,I got the chance to sit in and it was alot larger than what view you get on the BIS ones. I believe the main reason people turned it down was due to face counts and textures. Well take a look at some of these newer addons in O2,Vit's new hinds,take around 8000 faces,M1A2SEP's take around 7000 (or less) and Diesels A-10 take more,however don't forget that the reason it takes so many faces is the dynamic arming,before somebody gets onto me about this being a conversation for apache's thats what I am talking about.

The rotors? Why? Currently the rotors are being redone,we even got 3D rotor blurs when the egines are on,the MFD's are good but they kinda stay still,thats not really what were trying to do,my goal is to also make a moving compass inside of a MFD,also if its variety you are worried about,my goal is to make textures for every nation that uses AH-64's,with texture and model difference (meaning some models may have more faces) however none of this will be done until I get my computer back up and running.

.........and for the hell of it a green and tan plastic one from Army Men air assault n such >.> *hides in box*

I figure I'v given away enough or too much information for now....well if anyone has any questions just ask me.

And yes,the cockpit of Franze's apache's are being redone.

[Messiah 2]

Perhaps, but I see little difference in overall structural design.

possibly because its the same helicopter the structural design would be the same?

[shadow 6]

to make the only apache pack anyone would ever need, that might translate to the best for some of you, but all it really means is that we are trying to put into it as much as possible so that it fits everyones needs.

I hope all these features will be customizable so the helo can be MP-friendly too.

Sounds really exciting, xnodunitx.

[dm 9]

BAS did not start from scratch with their blackhawks, all of the models were based off of the BIS ones that they had aquired, and I don't really see anyone complaining about their models. Anyways, when this is done it will be just as good.

Actually, the entire 1st, 2nd, cargo, pilot and gunner lods are all brand new. The only BIS parts are the low resolution lods, which are hardly ever seen except for at extreem range.

Perhaps, but I see little difference in overall structural design.

Thats because they are based off the same real-world helicopter design.

If you look at the models you'll see there are some fundamental differences, the same needs to be applied to the Apaches, but at a greater scale, since the BIS Apache model is not as accurate as it could be (the Blackhawk was fairly accurate as to the major structural components, which is why there is little difference).

I'll add this as a footnote: You [KyleSarnik] had nothing to do with the creation of the BAS Blackhawks, so you can only guess what was done. I was part of the team which worked on them, so I know exactly what happened. While people think that we based the entire addon from the BIS models, we found that it was considerably easier to start from scratch than it was to attach bits to the existing model. The same would apply to the Apache.

[xnodunitx 0]

Plus you get a better idea of what to do,can be proud that its not a model that was changed from another and so on.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

to make the only apache pack anyone would ever need, that might translate to the best for some of you, but all it really means is that we are trying to put into it as much as possible so that it fits everyones needs.

I hope all these features will be customizable so the helo can be MP-friendly too.

Sounds really exciting, xnodunitx.

Yes, glad you brought that up, and I am trying to keep the face count low because me and Marco's main concern is MP playability. Marco seems to not want to add the dynamic arming because it will boost the face count, but if the final model has a low enough face count maybe there will be some form of the dynamic arming.

I allready announced that I am NOT starting from scratch, there is nothing wrong with the current model I have, therefore I will not waste time on making a new one. I also suggest you stop mentioning this until you actualy see the new model from close up.

Harmed, until I spot a problem with the undercarrige it will remain the same, I suggest you try and tell me exactly what it is that you think is wrong about it instead of just saying that it looks wrong . As for the rotors, there is nothing wrong with the rotors in both static and rotating form, they were both redone from the original and they now mimic the real thing.

[franze 196]

Harmed is probably concerned about the guage and positionining of the gear. Check out these blueprints and you can decide.

AH-64 Landing Gear

[-HUNTER- 1]

Maybee you could make the legs a bit thicker not much just a bit it would look allot better I think.

Dutch apache's also have steps for the pilot and gunner to get in easier, on the point where the two ehh things come together the suspension and the landing strut? the leg!

And Ive allready mentioned and received an answer about, the wheels maybee could be a bit more round on the top and bottom. I believe franze apache did have that. Bis like ALLMOST got it right with everything, allmost.

I cannot wait for the uber apache when it comes. With every new thingy on it that would be cool!

[xnodunitx 0]

Are the steps below or kind of sticking out of the FABS? (aka the "cheeks")

I'v seen pictures of both ways,chances are I mostly saw UK and US apache's for that,I'm just wondering.

[Harmed 0]

I stiil think you people should work together Franze, Kyle and Marco. dont compete but, get profite out of eachothers good points and skills. put the best of every apache together, we dont need, 3 different apaches in ofp, wich all three have there weak points we want one apache with no weak points think about that and Ill hope you will pm eachother and coop If you dont want to do it for yourselfs thank FFS do it for OFPkind

[franze 196]

xnodunitx has already worked with two of the three. I think he's right in his assesment that we wouldn't work well together. All three of us have opinions and points of view that are just too different to effectively work together, IMO.

Besides, if there are 3 AH-64 packages, that means you get plenty to try out, rather than just having to go with one and wishing this or that could be different.

[xnodunitx 0]

Yep and as soon as I can get *beep*ing bulldozer to work again ours can continue as far as textures,but these 3 would not get along.

Kyle and Marco are trying to make a MP friendly helicopter,me and Franze are trying to make a more realistic one,however it is kind of good in MP,me and him played some matches with 8 or so with little lag. (until he put the map with over 180 tanks,Y2K3 like to have killed me there) we are trying to get the cockpits as detailed as possible,certain things will be added,for instance those switches,instead of being a texture I'm going to make then 3D,I tested them out ingame and they look good (So far anyway) but I don't want to give away too much before Franze fires me

[Harmed 0]

ok fine to me, aslong as you a dutch version aswell