US Civil War Mod ver.1.0 Beta Released

[pickett 0]

Hi folks,

in recent weeks the original horse has been improved by ProfT quite a bit, (Gavin will inform you of the specifics prior to release) Now that it approaches a state where it can perform all the duties one expects from a horse, Books and myself thought it proper to give it a new appearance too.

So far a complete new 3d model has been made and animated.

Although it has neither all the LODs required nor a shadow or proper texture yet, this little movie (16mb) gives a pretty good impression of what has been accomplished so far.

Download it here:

[ProfTournesol 956]

@ Tsalagikola : excellent vid !! Didn't you could use so many modified cavalry man without lag ! Maybe you could make a video with a little fight...Anyway your island is great  

[gavinthecat 0]

Great stuff with the horse Picket its looking smashing, i look forward to contributing to it further, i think this is a barrier we are about to finally break through (i.e. cavalry)

Tsla - the new map is looking great, however id love for u to give me any requests you may have for map objects, for we could further customise ur map by getting some of the addon dudes to work with u to make any objects u'd like

bigus - wise words on the warning of empty promises etc, like i say tho, we're not gonna make u wait 6 months for some near perfect mod release or anything. What we are gonna get u in a matter of weeks is new boys, guns, optics and ai weapon code etc (its hard work but not revolutionary) so theres little room for things to go super wrong (a lot of the first team beta is already done)

canada - just to correct u, the mod did not disband, neither has its team, while triglav had to leave due to committments, the rest of the team has stayed, while new members have joined, so the mod team has not disbanded lol its grown bigger.

Until our new site and forum is up, this thread is all we have, so lets keep discussion to ideas, proposals and addons, not about 'grief' or 'disbandonment' or anything that questions the sincerity of our efforts etc.

As for me fellow mod members we need to discuss what we think should be in the beta 2.0, as in the maps u guys are working on etc, i will be altering the GUI for the mod folder too, slightly (some things have to be chanced since were on new units anyway etc) But anyway if mod members can contact me we'll make a final list for beta 2.0 that we can work towards.

Id love to see u guys who are not editing to contribute too, and let us know what u would love to be in the beta 2.0, give us lists or ideas to help : )

[tsalagikola 0]

[Maybe you could make a video with a little fight] ok i will have one today for yous guys[Yankee] ya'll [Confederate]

[Inferior Being 0]

"Now that's funny!" - Bigus_Dikus

O...K...?

[bigus_dikus 0]

wow that vid was great Pickett!

the horses are looking good .

(big round of applause).

to Gavin.......looking forward to the release.

by the looks of things it should be good.

bigus

[tsalagikola 0]

great video of them thar hoss pickett and its great you got the animations like that

[tsalagikola 0]

ProfTournesol here is your requested video you said a little fight but not what kind but here you go.

DOWNLOAD HERE

[tsalagikola 0]

here are some Chattanooga area shots with the DXDLL working too bad i can't get it working all the time

BLOODY POND

Lee and Gordon's mill

Reed's bridge

Tennessee River

[eestikas88 0]

Nice.

[Ceriy 0]

Great looking island. Is it going to be in the next release?

[andylee054 0]

Finally!!

Someone noticed the bayonet system from Taiwan workshop.

I felt a little sad in the first time I released the news and our ROC MOD 3.01, I thought maybe nobody appreciated this system, even someone like the PUKF's more better than mine. (It spent me almost two years to find the way how to make AI soldiers deal with the bayonet and decrease the lagging problems...)

But it's good to hear you guys talking about this system, now.

Actually, I am one of the Fans of CWMOD,too. And I noticed the bayonet has no functions in this mod.

I Hope to see the bayonet fighting in this MOD, too.

Good Luck, dude.

[bigus_dikus 0]

here is an update to the bullrun map.

thanks to Tsalagikola for the bridge pack.

even though it's a wood bridge it still looks more

realistic than the ground bridge I had before.

The AI seem to be able to cross ok in colomn.

2 MP missions are included. the're nothing new

just figured I'd include them so you could check out the map.

My Webpage

Edit:looks like the units are still starting with fixed bayonets

forgot to change it.....hopefully still plays ok.

bigus

[tsalagikola 0]

haha i am the first one to download i tryed every bridge known to OFP and these are the best too many was missing path and memory lods if you need stone bridges the AWOL bridges look great but the AI would not cross them

[bigus_dikus 0]

ya your pack was good Tsalagikola.

I think I'm finished with the bull run map for now

and think I'll start on the wilderness map.

There's a few major victories for the south around

that area

I might be able to throw in some minor streams and

rivers now that I have that bridge pack.

thanx again.

bigus

[tsalagikola 0]

i played both missions and the yankees kelp killing me and it was fun fighting

[General Barron 0]

Okay, I finally installed this mod, and I am totally blown away! The units are all top-notch quality, and I was surprised at how much stuff was included! The island is great as well. All around, a really great start you guys have on this mod!

I don't see why you need to re-make the soldier models--they look great to me. I'd rather see more things added to the mod, instead of just remaking what currently exists.

Since this is a BETA, I will post all of the issues I have seen so far. I love the mod, so even if some of these sound negative, mind you I'm just trying to help.

ISSUES:

*Shotgun sucks. Horribly. Worse than most OFP shotguns. It kicks like 90 degrees into the air, and shoots 16 humongous cloud of smoke, yet can't kill anything. I'd suggest looking into a scripted shotgun, that shoots only 1 bullet, but then camcreates the spray. One has been posted on ofp.info, or I could whip up a quick script for it.

*No reloading between shots. I'm sure you want the units to carry more than 10 rounds, but if I had the choice between them having only 10 rounds that they have to reload each time, and them having 100 rounds with no reloading, I'd choose the 10. Chances are, they won't get off all 10 before dying anyways, and not having units ram another shot down the barrel takes TONS away from the CW atmosphere. A script could also be used to add more ammo to the unit after it fires. Again, I could help you with this one.

*Anims are sorta buggy. No transitions between firing position and strokegun, among others. I'd suggest making your own attack anim, and ditching BIS's. Also, no prone position is available with rifles, for some reason (Works with pistols though, so it looks pretty weird sometimes...).

 Along those lines, I'd suggest modifying the individual unit's movement classes, instead of changing the whole darn anim.pbo/main config. How to do this has already been posted. This will cut down on download size, since you dont' have to download the whole anim.pbo.

*Static objects placable under the "civilian" side. They should only appear under 'empty', and this is an easy fix.

*Bayonet issues. I won't point these out in detail, because I take it you are going to implement the OTW bayonets in the next version, which would fix all of these issues. Breifly: you get both the 'fix bayonet' action and the strokegun attack; units without bayonets still get the 'order: fix bayonets' action; bayonet script doesn't always work properly.

*Some icons are hard to see. Tents, for example. They are almost black, so it is hard to pick them out from the bushes/trees. Do editors a favor, and use a brighter color.

*Flag issues. Flags are a great idea, but I get the option to shoot it as a weapon, reload it, etc. Bugs ensue when I do any of the above.

*Pistols have the same amount of smoke as muzzle loaders. I'm no expert, but I would assume that less smoke was made by cartridges from pistols/rifles as opposed to muzzle-loaders.

*Weapon accuracy. I'm sure you guys know WAY more about this than I do, but the weapons seem a little too inaccurate--even for 1860's era weapons. Playing a mission, it would take me around 3-4 shots to hit someone less than 75m away. I would think that they should be fairly accurate up to about 100 meters (1-2 shot kills). Perhaps you can make the AI less accurate than the player, to make up for the difference.

*I played a mission that had a fade to black at the end (in the outro). After the end of the mission, I could no longer see the title screen, even though I could hear myself clicking on the buttons. I'm not sure if this is a bug with the mission (exit.sqs?), or an error of some sort in the mod. The mission was on Nogova.

SUGGESTIONS:

Here are some suggestions I have for future updates:

*Fix bayonets. Use the OTW version instead of the inferior PUKF ones. To make things simple, I would suggest making two versions of each weapon: one with attatched bayonet, and one without. You would then have two different melee attacks: one stabbing action (which should be very lethal), and one butt stroke (which should do less damage and use a shorter anim than the BIS one).

*More objects. I'd like to see stuff like dirt ramparts that I can build forts and defensive positions with, period buildings, and other stuff I can't think of right now. Objects are very important for creating a convincing atmosphere: equally important as units! So how about making more objects first, instead of remaking the units?

*Trains! They played such a vital role in the war, and gave the North a huge advantage. Some battles were fought just a couple hundred yards from the train station, while reinforcements were arriving at that very station (Gettysburg for one, I think). As such, many missions could be made revolving around them (capturing train stations, etc). The AEF mod has already made working trains; did they make a 1800's train too? If not, perhaps you could borrow their scripts. Even if they are static objects, trains would be great.

*Some type of 'grenade' would be nice. Like a stick of dynamite that you can throw (along with changed throw anims to show you lighting it). I'm not sure how much this was used in the war, but I saw it in a movie (Glory), so it must be accurate, right?

*Along those lines, having some sort of explosives that you can lay to blow crap up would be great for sabotage missions (like blowing up trains ). This sort of thing may be getting a little bit historically inaccurate (did that ever happen?), but it would be fun none the less, and well suited to the OFP engine.

*More artillery! What you've got is great so far, but specifically I'd love to see (a) grapeshot canisters (perhaps using scripts similar to the shotgun script), and (b) a gatling gun (it wasn't used much, but c'mon, you gotta make it ).

*UA compatible arty. Not much more needs to be said on this one, but it would make artillery much more useful if it didn't need line-of-sight to hit.

That's all for now! Again, this is a great mod, and I will definately watch for future updates! Oh yeah, one more thing: you should host missions on your website. That is, assuming you want people to actually PLAY your mod. Here is a great mission I just played that you could host:

http://ofpec.com/missions/mission_detail.php?ID=1243

[tsalagikola 0]

[i'm sure you want the units to carry more than 10 rounds, but if I had the choice between them having only 10 rounds that they have to reload each time, and them having 100 rounds with no reloading, I'd choose the 10]

where did you download we have 60 shots per man

[Trains! They played such a vital role in the war, and gave the North a huge advantage. Some battles were fought just a couple hundred yards from the train station]

there is a better train than AEF for this mod because Liberation 1941-45 is working on a steam train i am waiting on that and it looks great too

[some type of 'grenade' would be nice. Like a stick of dynamite that you can throw (along with changed throw anims to show you lighting it). I'm not sure how much this was used in the war, but I saw it in a movie (Glory), so it must be accurate, right]

and yes the did have grenades in the Civil War i have a few pictures of some

if anyone wants me too i have about a 6 minute movie i made at a Civil War cannons live fire they was using solid shot and shooting at 55 gallion drums at 250 yards i can post it here

[combat-agent 0]

@ GEN Barron

Do you have the CWMOD v1.1? All soldiers have atleast 60 rounds and do reload. I know because I made the system the mod uses.

The weapons I believe are plenty accurate, the problem is adjusting to the weapons site. For ex: you need to aim low with the Springfield.

There were grenades invented in the time of the Civil War, but they were not used because they were far to dangerous for the operator to throw.

Dynamite wasn't invented in the time I the civil war, as i been told. But it would be kind of cool to have anyway.

The shotgun does suck.

ROCs mods bayonet system seems promising, but still has issues from what I see. But it will probably be best in the end for game frame rate.

All weapons fire the same muzzle smoke because the event handler is attached to the units because it is not possible to attach an event handler to a weapon. However maybe a script can be made to identify the weapon used by that soldier. But that script may cause lag ingame.

The anims are "buggy", Wilco was nice enough to make what we got. He was a very busy man, and animators are rare in the OFP community.

Quote[/b] ]I played a mission that had a fade to black at the end (in the outro). After the end of the mission, I could no longer see the title screen, even though I could hear myself clicking on the buttons. I'm not sure if this is a bug with the mission (exit.sqs?), or an error of some sort in the mod. The mission was on Nogova.

What mission was that?

To the sound of it, all units will be replaced, but thats not all the future mod will be if i have to do anything with it. I will ensure new features are implemented. Thanks for dling the CWMOD hope ya enjoy it.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Quote[/b] ]*Fix bayonets. Use the OTW version instead of the inferior PUKF ones. To make things simple, I would suggest making two versions of each weapon: one with attatched bayonet, and one without. You would then have two different melee attacks: one stabbing action (which should be very lethal), and one butt stroke (which should do less damage and use a shorter anim than the BIS one).

Well, the stroke gun attack is attached to the type of weapon (ammo, in fact), but the anim of the attack (BIS strokegun or modified for bayonet like Taiwan workshop) is attached to soldiers...so duno how to have two different kinds of melee attack for the same soldier without scripting... But what I think is possible is :

1. Have soldiers with a bayonet gun with a "strokegun bayonet attack" (and keeping a part of the PUKF script only for fixing/removing bayonet orders giving to the guys the gun with bayonet AND the melee ability, suppressing the laggy part of it - no "wait untill" launched on every soldiers, no scripted attack with nearestobject loops) : i tried it, no lag ;

2. The other soldiers will only have a strokegun attack.

I'm modifying the melee ammo for strokegun and bayonet so that AI uses it as often as possible, with ammo left, and at the moment it uses it quite often but less than with PUKF script, but we cannot have the butter and the money of it (french proverb...). AI seems to prefer shooting at long range, even if the melee ability is more powerfull than the bullet. But we can always make our troops charge to get closer to enemies, through WP (that's what we're doing, aren't we ?).

As you said, the bayonet strokegun will be more lethal than the strokegun one (even with the same "ammo") because the anim is shorter (the shot is given after the anim has run).

Quote[/b] ]there is a better train than AEF for this mod because Liberation 1941-45 is working on a steam train i am waiting on that and it looks great too

Mmm...we're waiting for Lib stuff (new german pack and so on) for at least one year...

Quote[/b] ]*More artillery! What you've got is great so far, but specifically I'd love to see (a) grapeshot canisters (perhaps using scripts similar to the shotgun script

YES YES YES !!! Would be very nice !!

[gavinthecat 0]

Hello gents, just in case u were missing me im back (i was away on a wee trip) good to hear some of the suggestions and comments here.

Lots of people have different opinions and ideas, and we'll sift through them etc.

There are a lot of priorities at the moment, for me personally new graphics and optimised lag reduced addons were important, (im an addonmaker so etc) and for others its more maps, or extra features etc, and i think we can all agree on the implementation of lag reduced code, and working cavalry.

Um someone mentioned weapon accuracy - range etc? This is a good point, in the cw1.1 etc, there was no specified coding really given for the AI to use weapons at certain ranges, or much for dispersion accuracy (and how that should be modified)

Im sitting on some addons at the moment, and i will prepare a test alpha for Team beta testers tomorrow, that will show of some of the new units and weapons.

If you want to join cwmod formally as a BETA TESTER (as we know whose actually working in the mod but we are making membership more formal in terms of recruiting beta testers) so email me if u would like to test the units and updated weapons

[gavinthecat 0]

http://www.revgraph.com/files/tease.wmv

Oh and heres a wee sneak peak at some units in progress - ingame.

- Barron

'I don't see why you need to re-make the soldier models--they look great to me.'

= Unfortunately that was not a prevelant opinion of most, with the exception in fact being the most loyal cwmod fanbase that of course occupy this forum thread that said most who downloaded the cwmod 1.1 (and there were many) saw massive potential and loved the gameplay. Hence we see a great chance to appease that vast (And silent segment) by giving them up to date units, with graphics and lods that look to the standard of fancy historical mods (it helps that we are given assistance from fancy mods too.)

Its my intention to get cwmod, into a new phase, that will increase the amount of players engaging with our mod, and for that we need to raise the standards (despite the satisfaction of u brave retainers)

[General Barron 0]

Quote[/b] ]Do you have the CWMOD v1.1? All soldiers have atleast 60 rounds and do reload. I know because I made the system the mod uses.

Quote[/b] ]where did you download we have 60 shots per man

I have v1.1, which I downloaded from your site.

Okay, I'm not sure about the exact ammo count, and I don't remember exactly which weapon I was using, but 60 or 100 rounds isn't the point. What I was talking about is that the units do not RELOAD between each shot.

Alright, let me correct myself: the PLAYER does not have to reload between each shot. After a little bit of playing in the editor, I noticed that AI units appear to be reloading between each shot, but I suspect that it is simply a swithmove/playmove. There are a couple problems with this:

(1) soldiers seem to finish the animation, but their weapons still aren't ready for reloading; (2) anims would 'flow' smoother if units were actually reloading (eg: different anims played depending on unit's position); (3) the player doesn't have to do crap between shots, so it gives him a huge advantage.

I was just suggesting that in terms of game mechanics, it might be best to make each shot be an individual magazine, so that players and AI alike have to reload between each shot. You know; like BIS's Kozlice.

Quote[/b] ]All weapons fire the same muzzle smoke because the event handler is attached to the units because it is not possible to attach an event handler to a weapon. However maybe a script can be made to identify the weapon used by that soldier. But that script may cause lag ingame.

All you would need is a simple check at the beginning of the EH script. It could look something like this:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">? (_this select 4) in CW_low_smoke : [1] exec "smoke.sqs; exit

? (_this select 4) in CW_med_smoke : [2] exec "smoke.sqs; exit

(_this select 4) in CW_high_smoke : [3] exec "smoke.sqs; exit

exit

Then, in a script that is run once at the beginning of the mission, you initialize those variables to include the classnames of the bullets that will have low, medium, and high amounts of smoke. This is a very simple check to run, and it isn't being run very often, since these weapons have a ROF of like 2 rpm. So it basically would have no impact in terms of lag. I can elaborate on this if you want.

Quote[/b] ]The anims are "buggy", Wilco was nice enough to make what we got. He was a very busy man, and animators are rare in the OFP community.

I understand that. I'd offer to help with some anims, but I am also quite busy with other projects. Perhaps some time in the future... but perhaps your team could learn animating as well. It isn't that hard once you get the hang of it... just the configs are the biatch.

Quote[/b] ]What mission was that?

Outlaws, the mission linked in my prior post.

Quote[/b] ]The weapons I believe are plenty accurate, the problem is adjusting to the weapons site. For ex: you need to aim low with the Springfield.

Really? I'll have to try it again and test this out. However, if that is really the case, then you should really fix those sights so they are properly zeroed. Unless they made sights differently back then...?

Quote[/b] ]AI seems to prefer shooting at long range, even if the melee ability is more powerfull than the bullet. But we can always make our troops charge to get closer to enemies, through WP (that's what we're doing, aren't we ?).

It seems like this would be preferable: that the AI use bullets at ranges of, say beyond 50m, and bayonets closer than that. Or perhaps 75m. Anyway, I wouldn't want my squad to go charging off after some guys that are 100m away without my orders; nor would I want my AI doing the same if I am making a mission.

Quote[/b] ]As you said, the bayonet strokegun will be more lethal than the strokegun one (even with the same "ammo") because the anim is shorter (the shot is given after the anim has run).

I really hate the BIS buttstroke anim, because it is too damn long. I was going to say that you guys should make a shorter one, but then there's that whole 'lack of animators' thing...

Quote[/b] ]Well, the stroke gun attack is attached to the type of weapon (ammo, in fact), but the anim of the attack (BIS strokegun or modified for bayonet like Taiwan workshop) is attached to soldiers...so duno how to have two different kinds of melee attack for the same soldier without scripting... But what I think is possible is :

1. Have soldiers with a bayonet gun with a "strokegun bayonet attack" (and keeping a part of the PUKF script only for fixing/removing bayonet orders giving to the guys the gun with bayonet AND the melee ability, suppressing the laggy part of it - no "wait untill" launched on every soldiers, no scripted attack with nearestobject loops) : i tried it, no lag ;

2. The other soldiers will only have a strokegun attack.

Well, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are talking about here. But here was what I was imagining: you configure 2 different strokegun type weapons: bayonet and buttstroke. Aren't these configured along with a weapon, like another muzzle or something? If that is the case, then you would need to configure two different weapons for each rifle: one with bayonet (model and melee 'muzzle'), and one without.

How do you get differing animations for each weapon? Well, you might be able to do it with a simple "fired" eventhandler. The unit "fires" the melee attack, the eventhandler catches the weapon or "bullet" type fired, and then plays the appropriate animation for that weapon type. An easier compromise might be to make a single "stabbing/hitting" animation that would look plausible when attacking with a bayonet or without. No alternative is perfect, but melee in OFP is an imperfect system.

If you wanted to be able to fix/remove bayonets (it wouldn't really be needed, but if you wanted it for the effect), you could have a script that plays the appropriate anim, then removes the units weapon and replaces it with the bayonetted one.

I didn't hear any replies to some of the other issues I found (flags, icons, static objects), so hopefully that means they will be fixed in future releases. Keep up the good work!

[General Barron 0]

Quote[/b] ]Its my intention to get cwmod, into a new phase, that will increase the amount of players engaging with our mod, and for that we need to raise the standards (despite the satisfaction of u brave retainers)

That's fine; I liked the models, but I'm not very picky, so I'm sure they could be much better. Perhaps I was most impressed because the original authors seemed to imply that their work wasn't very good, so I had very low expectations.

However, I think the best way to get people interested in a mod is thru gameplay. I'm a mission maker at heart, so I guess I'm biased, but it seems like actually PLAYING a mission with a mod would be the best way to enjoy it (as opposed to looking at screenshots or looking at units in the editor).

You obviously would need missions to be made for this mod. Most mods today don't seem to include mission makers, so that is fine if you don't as long as other people make missions for you. And as long as you publish those missions wherever you publish your addons (take the FDF mission repository as an example of what a good mod should do).

With that in mind, it seems like the best way to get great missions made for the mod would be to provide all of the tools required to make a complete mission. Meaning, add more stuff, not remake the old. Anyway, I'm sure you will do both, and there is already a fair amount of stuff in the mod, so I'm not really complaining that much.

All I'm saying is that you continue and increase making this mod mission-oriented, not screenshot-oriented. It may seem obvious, but it doesn't seem like most addons are like that today...

[gavinthecat 0]

Wow barron er let me see if i can address some of those points

1)

Yup animations, i think the point you raise here is correct, we had some kindly donated (but due to time restrictions rushed animations) we have time to correct this i think, and we have as a favour, the offer of help from *ahem* wildo of i44, and/or Zalmoxis, who is a very patient man with ofpanim.

2)

Yup i agree on the smoke issue, and we will inplement new smoke script alterations to distuingish different firearms.

3)

Don't jump on me for saying this guys, but before the weapons werent really that accurate roughly, however now they are being recoded to be more realistic.

This should include, velocity speeds, and dispersions based on facts rendered from several books of vintage firearms i possess (for info on my main reference see my earlier post)

For the ranges guns are fired at, we can examine open sources on the internet, but also there is much information on this in a few of the osprey civil war books i have.

Basically tho barron, when the new team beta is out, the weapons will be FIXED, and they will in fact include NEW OPTICS altogether, that will be 'redefined in oxy' to ensure at least the optics are accurate (while the er musket ball might not be lol)

4) you mentioned the shotgun barron being bad, those weapons have all now been replaced, if u can refer to the pic entitled guns,

http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=guns2tm.jpg

http://www.revgraph.com/files/tease.wmv

Note again, these gun pics were taken at different times of day if ofp, hence affecting lighting contrasts, so textures do not appear in same 'brightness' as they would all at the same time of blah blah etc.

EDIT

5) // I totally agree with u on the importance of missions, of course im also cynical myself at mission makers, for often they have dissapointed in comparison to the massive work done for addons lol. (there are more addons than campaigns which is ironic)

The old addons not being good enough, is why their being improved, (so it is 'not' remaking the old) however the units are and have been expanded dramatically, (end will see 160 units for the beta release)

6) I hope we can release several missions, campaigns etc, (FDF have the right idea) perhaps barron u would like the team beta when it is prepared, u would be welcome to contribute, as we need more mission makers (i know its a time consuming process however)