T80 ver M1A1......Real world

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Off Topic discusses real-life military issues

[Ares1978 0]

What are the 5 "best" tanks in the world?

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?

4. ?

5. ?

What do you think?

MfG Lee

I don't know about the five best tanks, but this is what the list usually looks like:

1. Our tank.

2. Their tank.

[Ares1978 0]

That is the good point.

In most of the mission involving M1A1 in OFP , you should encounter slightly more T80 than M1A1 to keep the mission challenging (as the same number of M1A1 than T80 can make a tank-only mission a simple shoot'em up joke) and while keeping things challenging, it respects a bit the realistic ratio of number of Soviet tanks versus number of Us ones.

Exactly. Or play as the gunner in one of the T80's.

[FireflyPL 0]

What are the 5 "best" tanks in the world?

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?

4. ?

5. ?

What do you think?

MfG Lee

1. Merkava 4

1. Abrams

1. Leopard 2 A6

1. Challenger 2

1. T-80 UB

I think thats the only answer to your question :P

[denoir 0]

I don't know about the five best tanks, but this is what the list usually looks like:

1. Our tank.

2. Their tank.

Lol, yeah, quite so  

Anyway, tó add something to the debate, there's something that the Ruskies have that the Yanks & Euros don't: good ERA - explosive reactive armor. Slap it on any tank and you'll vastly improve its chances of survival.

Quote[/b] ]Jane's IDR 7/1997

IMPENETRABLE RUSSIAN TANK ARMOR STANDS UP TO EXAMINATION.

Claims that the armor of Russian tanks is effectively impenetrable, made on the basis of tests carried out in Germany (see IDR 7/1996, p15), have been supported by comments made following tests in the US.

Speaking at a conference on Future Armoured Warfare in London in May, IDR's Pentagon correspondent Leland Ness explained that US tests involved firing trials of Russian-built T-72 tanks fitted with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armor (ERA). In contrast to the original, or "light", type of ERA which is effective only against shaped charge jets, the "heavy" Kontakt-5 ERA is alo effective against the long-rod penetrators of APFSDS (armor-piercing, fin-stabilized, discarding sabot) tank gun projectiles.

When fitted to T-72 tanks, the "heavy" ERA made them immune to the DU penetrators of M829 APFSDS, fired by the 120mm guns of US M1 Abrams tanks, which are among the most formidable of current tank gun projecticles.          

Of course now there's the M829E3 APFSDS revision, which is supposed to be much better against reactive armor but we can equally count on that the Russians have/are developing new versions of the Kontakt series.

When we are talking about modern tanks that all have performance on roughly the same level, the deciding factor becomes production costs and your budget. One more very relevant factor is fuel consumption and the servicability. Using tanks often comes down to logistics as you have a convoy of supplies following them.

[D34N 0]

1. Strv122

2. Challenger 2

Leclerc

4. Abrams

5. Merkava

I suppose those numbers are interchangeable.

[raedor 8]

What are the 5 "best" tanks in the world?

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?

4. ?

5. ?

What do you think?

MfG Lee

I don't know about the five best tanks, but this is what the list usually looks like:

1. Our tank.

2. Their tank.

hehe, yes that's it.

[Necromancer- 0]

Note that during the Cold War NATO had superior airpower.

The Harriers and Apache Helicopters are a real pain in the ass for tanks.

[Bobcatt666 0]

Durring the coldwar it was AH1S cobras the apache only got in and large numbers shorty before the end of the coldwar.

[Ares1978 0]

The Harriers and Apache Helicopters are a real pain in the ass for tanks.

So is artillery.

[ozanzac 0]

Damn...I was hoping for a video where the two tanks faceoff. Once and for all to end the pissing match!

(Probably explains the before the thread title, indicating it was a question)

Oh well....let's all be grateful they never did have to face off against one another....unless of course, someone can provide images of a destroyed T-80/M1A1; Which can be certified as destroyed by an opposing T-80/M1A1....

Has there ever been a conflict for where both tanks could have come into hostile contact with one another?

Edit: Acknowledging my idiocy, and poor grammar.

[Ares1978 0]

Has there ever been a conflict for where both tanks could have come into hostile contact with one another?    

Not yet.

[FireflyPL 0]

The Harriers and Apache Helicopters are a real pain in the ass for tanks.

So is artillery.

True but Soviets allways had superiority in quality and quantity of artilery over NATO.

[Milkman 1]

Short answer: no

Then again, how many M1A1's have been hit by a 125mm-launched KE penetrator that wasn't made from old volkswagens?

Well, during testing they fired 105mm HEAT and HESH rounds, maybe even SABOT from about 300 meters. Results: Abrams: 1 Anti-Tank weapons: 0

Theres a bit of a difference between a 105mm round launched from a T-55 and a 125mm round launched from a T-80..

One also has to consider that T-80s are probably significantly cheaper than abramses also.

Standard T-55 fires 100mm smoothbore, at a lower muzzle velocity. I was talking about L7 105mm Rifled cannon.

And Russian T-80's (Atleast early versions) are not for sale. Only thing the T80 is good at is being lighter.

You lose.

ANOTHER thing to consider: There are numberous types of T80, so if you want a vs match T80B would probably lose but a T80UM1 has a much better chance of a kill on a M1A1 abrams.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Short answer: no

Then again, how many M1A1's have been hit by a 125mm-launched KE penetrator that wasn't made from old volkswagens?

Well, during testing they fired 105mm HEAT and HESH rounds, maybe even SABOT from about 300 meters. Results: Abrams: 1 Anti-Tank weapons: 0

Theres a bit of a difference between a 105mm round launched from a T-55 and a 125mm round launched from a T-80..

One also has to consider that T-80s are probably significantly cheaper than abramses also.

Standard T-55 fires 100mm smoothbore, at a lower muzzle velocity. I was talking about L7 105mm Rifled cannon.

And Russian T-80's (Atleast early versions) are not for sale. Only thing the T80 is good at is being lighter.

You lose.

ANOTHER thing to consider: There are numberous types of T80, so if you want a vs match T80B would probably lose but a T80UM1 has a much better chance of a kill on a M1A1 abrams.

Cyprus has some T-80s.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

Good point SPQR, I got off topic. Your right I was asking about the real thing.

By the way, you tripped me out when your said you were a Nato solder. Was It during the cold war? Thanks for the info on the tanks.

I would just be happy if I could get up close to one some day. If I were rich I’d buy one.

Thanks for the link oyman.

It’s so hard to find videos of these things. I found a really horrible site last night with these solders hurt, here is the link.

High speed modem users:

<link removed>

I think the two guys that were wounded was because of being unbuttoned(Head out of hatch).I'm thinking the black guy is the gunner, thus unhurt(and the really only way for the gunner to get out is thru the TC hatch).I'm guessing the TC is the big guy that was holding his arm and was wearing his comm-set.He probably was tending the loader (Possibly on the floor of the turret)who was really hurt bad.And the TC came out thru the loaders hatch since the TC hatch(There's a seat and a bunch of optics) is kind of hard to get out of in a hurry.The loaders hatch is just a hole straight up, and easy to hop out.

So my conclusion is that they took an RPG on the top portion of the turret(See all the bags burning on top of the turret?), those 2 guys were unbuttoned, and wam, took a lot of shrapnel to there upper-body.

Just a thought.

[DracoPaladore 0]

The Harriers and Apache Helicopters are a real pain in the ass for tanks.

So is artillery.

True but Soviets allways had superiority in quality and quantity of artilery over NATO.

Wasn't one of the biggest things for Nato during the cold war was the build up of advanced anti-tank weapon systems mostly because of the inability to contend with the high number of Russian tanks?

I also have an old Review/Comparison book for identification from the late 80's that my father had. Inside they have pictures, diagrams, and descriptions of multiple types of Soviet tanks(trucks, cars, apc's, etc.;and how they compare to NATO) and I noticed that the Soviets had a good number of mobile artillery units.

[Milkman 1]

Short answer: no

Then again, how many M1A1's have been hit by a 125mm-launched KE penetrator that wasn't made from old volkswagens?

Well, during testing they fired 105mm HEAT and HESH rounds, maybe even SABOT from about 300 meters. Results: Abrams: 1 Anti-Tank weapons: 0

Theres a bit of a difference between a 105mm round launched from a T-55 and a 125mm round launched from a T-80..

One also has to consider that T-80s are probably significantly cheaper than abramses also.

Standard T-55 fires 100mm smoothbore, at a lower muzzle velocity. I was talking about L7 105mm Rifled cannon.

And Russian T-80's (Atleast early versions) are not for sale. Only thing the T80 is good at is being lighter.

You lose.

ANOTHER thing to consider: There are numberous types of T80, so if you want a vs match T80B would probably lose but a T80UM1 has a much better chance of a kill on a M1A1 abrams.

Cyprus has some T-80s.

Are you sure they are not T-84?

[Ares1978 0]

Standard T-55 fires 100mm smoothbore, at a lower muzzle velocity. I was talking about L7 105mm Rifled cannon.

The 100mm gun is also rifled.

FireflyPL,

Yes, I know.

[Milkman 1]

Standard T-55 fires 100mm smoothbore, at a lower muzzle velocity. I was talking about L7 105mm Rifled cannon.

The 100mm gun is also rifled.

FireflyPL,

Yes, I know.

Oops I was thinking about T-62.

[Placebo 29]

Quote[/b] ]§5)No posting of explicit images

No posting of pictures containing porn, real killing, mutilations, wounds, carnage, and other disgusting/explicit images. This also includes links to pages that contain such images. There have been a number of incidents where people have linked to news sites which unbeknownst to them contains obscene images a few mouse clicks away, while we can't expect people to check every link on a site it is strongly suggested that whenever making a post about a news item the post is structured in a way that provides the information without risk of breaching the rules. A good example of how to do this can be seen below. If you're ever unsure as to whether or not a link should be posted on the forum feel free to PM a moderator for guidance.

starstreams for someone who has been around since 2002 you should be fully aware that such videos and such domains are not acceptable on these forums, a permanent ban can be the only outcome.

SkullsViper you've also been around a long time and should have known that the video was against the forum rules.

[SPQR 0]

Here is some data to feed the brain storming. i'm not sure all of this is completely true, but must be as closest as possible amateurs like us could ever reach  

Tank Protection Levels

Armour Values

Armour Penetration

LAW's, MAW's & RCL's

[D34N 0]

TTKCiar

Great site, may take awhile to load.

[Przezdzieblo 0]

Here is some data to feed the brain storming. i'm not sure all of this is completely true, but must be as closest as possible amateurs like us could ever reach  

Tank Protection Levels

Armour Values

Armour Penetration

LAW's, MAW's & RCL's

Good sites. For more reading there is AFV forum.

One more thing about T80B (BV) vs M1A1 in mid `80. Although T80`s Fire Control System was better than T72`s (and even new T72B`s), but still inferior to Western tanks. Probability of hitting moving target was lower than Abrams` (and probably today is too - some things, that in case of T90 probability of hitting moving target is not higher than 60-70%, compared to 90% of M1A2, Leopard 2 etc.). M1A1s had better stabilisation than T80s, and M256 main gun was more "stabilisation friendly" than 2A46M1 (although better than main armament of T72s before B version), so had better chances to hit moving or distant target than it`s Eastern opponent.

Of course Soviets had Kobra ATGMs, but it`s performance against Chobham was not great.

And when the day was gone and night started T80s, as all Soviet tank of that era, becomes almost blind. NV sight needed IR lights and could be used up to 800 meters - West had passive NV and even thermovision.

[SPQR 0]

Oups, nearly forgot this one... too bad

Vasiliy Fofanov's Modern Russian Armour Page