Before you make an island for ofp...

[BoweryBaker 0]

I got a strong feeling one of you out there is thinking of making an island, just remember that there are

1.government buildings (president, mayors)

2.financial establishments,

3.harbors (ags harbor kit) and cities that lay next to water

4.residential areas

5.places of rest/relaxation/and eating

6.business districts.

7.farms

8.slums

9.govrnment military bases

10.  a must have, terrorist military bases, but you can make believe that the one is the other if you wish.

11. radio towers, mining, power stations, stuff to keep the place going.

12. forests/jungles

13. needs a jail too.

14. needs a hospital.

15. needs an apartment building.

16. or at least space to lay one down from another addon maker.

see mcnools pacific island and mungari for excellent perfect ten islands but hey maybe its because im black, i dunno.  I also like Nogova and that new Lizardia is looking really nice.  Can't forget to mention panzerfaust island but its so dang small and way too modern for special forces which i favor but i can still get into it.  

another tip:  package all the seperate building addons with it.

major problems with the more recent islands:

1. not everything is packaged together

2. not enough military bases

3.  too many stretches of just nothing.  Put something in there like a forest, a base, an airport, something.

[drow 0]

...shitloads of jungle, some villages and a few filthy firebases  

[Edge 2]

We've been on this issue for a long time in CSLA, did some research on landscape and urban structure and made certain method of island design.

The design of island should reflect the answers on some given questions:

What is the "mission" of my island?

- you need some basic idea why you make an island. You can make it either for kinda gangsta madness (the bank is necessary then ), conventional warfare of 20th century or for battles of airmobile units, guerilla warfare etc. You can hardly build a "jack-of-all-trades" map without investment of time and effort, but answering this question should prevent you from wasting it on unnecessary things.

Where does my island take place?

- learn something about vegetation, typical buildings and even figure out from which direction will the sun shine... Land textures, local architecture, trees, agriculture, types of roads, sacral buildings, typical layout of settlements, special objects (oil-drilling platforms, rice pads, walls...), this all should really enhance your island.

For what historical period should my island work?

- quite useful for basic research on buildings and landscape structure (e.g. different look of European landscape in 1940 vs. 1980). Note that some periods bring up some characteristic landscape details depending on "current" situation (Is the government palace still nice or was it bombed several times?).

What is the story "behind" the island?

- it could be ruined or really nice place to live. It could host a terrorists or a peaceful local government. It could be some "province" or a tiny state. It could be total wilderness or a landscape after 1000 years of cultivation...

It is also useful to figure out some history for your piece of rock (e.g. Was my part of Nam jungle once inhabited by Khmer kings who left some ruins there?).

What facilities should be available on the island?

- you may want to create diverse battlefield with lots of small villages, or a big plain for epic tank battles. Depending on your "story" and island's history, various building could be available.

How does the island work?

- the practical part of design - where do the food, money, resources, water, electricity and those little donkeys come from? Focus on logical structure of the island - the biggest settlements should be in flatlands, there should be some "artery" road etc.

What new kind of battlefield or improvement of curent state will my island bring to community?

- pretty self-explanatory

The island design is very complex issue and obviously requires some research and planning, especially when you are going to create counterpart to some "real" terrain. Gather as much info as you can, figure out why you do the island and avoid pointless addons.

The island should be diverse; no place of the world looks the same as any other, so one of the key issues is to build lots of unique places (few houses and a tree, single tree somewhere, interesting layout of road etc.). The island should contain some good places for skirmishes as well. After few runs in editor, the player should be able to identify where he is, and remember some interesting "sightseeings" you prepared. And the island should be built so that one could enjoy simply driving over it in jeep for hours...

[Ares1978 0]

1-6, 8, 10: Not always present on small islands.  

Many areas are also self-sufficient or very close to it. Especially if the simulated era is not present-day.

9, 12, 13. Depends on the island's purpose.

Personally, I'm getting fed up with people stuffing their islands full of small towns, military bases etc. I've made that mistake myself. Seriously, you don't know where one base or town ends and another begins. It's not reasonable to press as much shit as possible into an area as small as possible just to create a scale 1:10 or 1:100 province or country.

And especially when talking about the less than 12x12km islands, that small an area doesn't have snow-covered mountains, three types of desert, jungles, swamps, rivers, lakes, taiga, tundra and several major cities in real life either. Some (I always forget names) have tried to cram almost every type of terrain from the equator to the north pole into their maps.

About mountains: They are worthless if they don't serve a purpose as a usable area of the island.

------------

Edge:

Nice to see that some have taken a very reasonable approach to island making. I don't fully agree with every point, but it is obvious that you have thought them through. If there was a "thumbs up" smilie here, I'd use it.  

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Quote[/b] ]Before you make an island for ofp...

...remember that we allready have every type of island like summer, winter, autumn, desert, small, big, with tons of objects, with tons of 3rd party addons, ..... etc.

But the only thing we do not have, is a big island with only a few objects and some nice airports on it. An island where Air Combats with high viewdistances are lagfree playable. Also Air to Ground fights could be played there.

Now, if you have no clue what I am talking about, play Wüstenfuchs' excellent mission "IRON EAGLES". It is available in the user mission forum.

MfG Lee

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

But the only thing we do not have, is a big island with only a few objects and some nice airports on it. An island where Air Combats with high viewdistances are lagfree playable. Also Air to Ground fights could be played there.

I've discovered that the first version of PMC_Euro is, although the least developed, still the least laggy large map around!

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

...shitloads of jungle, some villages and a few filthy firebases  

Yup that's my idea of a nice island.

3 times is a charm

[calm_terror 0]

one problem with some of that is there is a lack of building add-ons for somethings. like eateries and goverment buildings etc..

[lee_h._oswald 0]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 21 2004,15:13)]I've discovered that the first version of PMC_Euro is, although the least developed, still the least laggy large map around!

I am using exact that version for good dogfights!

MfG Lee

[BoweryBaker 0]

I'm really loooking forward to lizardia. I know I'm going to rank that up with chechnya, mcnoools pacific, mungari and then will be lizardia.

[bn880 5]

About mountains: They are worthless if they don't serve a purpose as a usable area of the island.

Depends what you mean by mountains. Anyway, mountains are certainly useful, they can be used for and to learn tactics, and cover for aircraft. Mountains usually have valleys as well, which means more tactics.

[Postduifje 0]

Besides, mountains are a good tool for coordination. It is a shame if they cover wide area's without anyone ever walking one them, but calling them worthless is not true.

[Edge 2]

About mountains: They are worthless if they don't serve a purpose as a usable area of the island.

Depends what you mean by mountains. Anyway, mountains are certainly useful, they can be used for and to learn tactics, and cover for aircraft. Mountains usually have valleys as well, which means more tactics.

Steep mountains (rather a rocky ridges) are excellent natural barriers, but on the other hand, make the things a little unrealistic and hard to cope with for AI. Waste of space, unless they are really needed.

Large-scale hills are far better, since they allow manoeuvring troops, tactical use of terrain, and reconnaisance could be employed effectively. On teh other hand, the slope sometimes prevents from creating settlements or placing other objects. That's the question of wise use of sloped terrain when creating custom terrain...

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Waste of space, unless they are really needed.

I agree!

Look at Nogova, in the north there are too many mountains.

Combat most of the times happens in the middle and south.

MfG Lee

[bn880 5]

OKay guys, make maps without mountains, and I'm sure you'll lose a very important aspect of tactical warfare, maybe you jsut don't realize how mountains and valleys are used.

[Edge 2]

Quote[/b] ]OKay guys, make maps without mountains, and I'm sure you'll lose a very important aspect of tactical warfare, maybe you jsut don't realize how mountains and valleys are used.

LOL

I just said that the hills should be placed wisely, and too steep slopes should be used only ocassionaly due to their "barrier" nature. BTW the whole Lizardia is BASED on our thoughts regarding possible use of terrain...

I know what you mean by the "tactical warfare", but what sometimes makes great fun, could sometimes cause a big pain.

Badly designed mountains may limit the gameplay, and just letting the terrain to become a maze of senseless hilly surface shall be avoided. If the mountain on one's island should serve e.g. the ambush, it should be done so, that's all I (and probably the others) meant.

Lee H. Oswald: IMO Nogova is specific - the mountains on North (especially the coastline) are just kinda "nice-to-look" border area. I guess there are neither the big settlements nor lowland "battle-friendly areas" because BIS needed a refuge for partisans. However, navigating armored vehicles is hard there, and walking on those hills is really tiring.

...I guess we should return to the topic, or we all get warned&locked

[drow 0]

re: Mountains

depends on what landscape youre making whether or not mountains should be present,

in Vietnam there was marble mountains that were basically unclimbable, and also lots of other terrain you couldnt even walk thru,

it comes down to balancing atmosphere/realism/ and playability

and it depends on your idea of what is realisticly playable in ofp...

you an fly over the mountains, you can set up ambushes in the valleys,,, theres lots of ways to make "useless" mountains useful in your campaigns and missions, even if only to add realism and atmosphere.

[Ares1978 0]

About mountains: They are worthless if they don't serve a purpose as a usable area of the island.

Depends what you mean by mountains.     Anyway, mountains are certainly useful, they can be used for and to learn tactics, and cover for aircraft.  Mountains usually have valleys as well, which means more tactics.

If you can't fight on it and it's not worth fighting for from a strategic viewpoint, it's useless. In my opinion, mountains and valleys don't mean more tactics, they only mean different tactics. Players will always find new tactics and I don't see any need to make life easier for them by making a map to suit the tactics they would like to use or by forcing them to use a certain tactic.  Having to sacrifice realism for playability is complete nonsense. I call it underestimating the player. Adapt the tactic to the terrain and so forth. Make the terrain realistic and the player will learn to use it.

[cbfasi 4]

Bowery your ideas are good but unrealistic.

Yeah go for this if your making an island up but if you doing actaull terrain then it shoud not be 'altered' just keep a few peps happy.

I for a start have a number of island under construction, all 1:1 ground scale.

One of which has just 1 settlement and about 1-3km of road, its real, that how its really is.

I have another a 25km x 25km island 2 settlements with a total building count of less than 50 for the whole island, yet again a real location, so what thers areas of little to see, they actauly fought over it!!!

Another I mention is a 'portion' of a much large land mass, being modelled at 1:1 including buildings (as far as possible_ and other features, it has an airbase, but misses most of the features you say should be in a map.

I actaually lived on an island only 14 x 8km in size, it could be said to have most of the items you mention, the jail was a single occupancy hut....., the harbour, a jetty etc...

What needs to be seen is just what is realistic on an island of the size being made, a 12.8 x 12.8 landmass may have all the above features but scaled down, afterall the location I lived at only had 3k peps, and that was with service personnel!!!!!

[Skewballzz 0]

My best missions on Nogova usualy take place in the north/northeast mountains. Adds to that "partisan" feel and it looks stunning

[redneckehv 0]

i have resently submitted an island to ofp.gamezone.info for download that uses the BAS tonal tango pack. actually it just uses the BAS_o. anyways. i would appreciate if someone downloaded it and let me know what they think about the island so i can later improve and make better islands. it is a tropical island with few inhabitants. it primarily functions as a prison camp. actually it is several islands and has small farming and fishing communitys, a training camp, a loggged area, and a mangrove swamp. it requires a strong comp. though. the island is labeled Pacific island alpha v1 by redneck at gamezone. go check it out and let me know what you think. i feel i did a nice job, but i don't know. also i am building an island for a mod right now and we are looking for a model editor. if you are interested in making some weapons or buildings please contact us at redneckehv@yahoo.com

[Edge 2]

If you can't fight on it and it's not worth fighting for from a strategic viewpoint, it's useless. In my opinion, mountains and valleys don't mean more tactics, they only mean different tactics. Players will always find new tactics and I don't see any need to make life easier for them by making a map to suit the tactics they would like to use or by forcing them to use a certain tactic.

Great ideas! You took it from my mouth. But on the other hand, the function of the hill CAN be either "esthetic", we are playing a computer game, man. I understand Drow that he needs to represent Central Highland in a way it looks like - simply very very hilly.

Quote[/b] ]Having to sacrifice realism for playability is complete nonsense. I call it underestimating the player. Adapt the tactic to the terrain and so forth. Make the terrain realistic and the player will learn to use it.

I agree with previous posts that mentioned the 1:1 DEMs with realistic layout of objects, it adds a lot of feeling may result in interesting map - but IMO the problem is that you have to choose right terrain. It is easy to make 100 square kilometers of nothing, but again: we don't learn tactics on VBS, we are playing the game, with all its limitations and simplifications. Adding some flavour to the island design (like including some less realistic, but more interesting terrain) is not underestimating the player, but enhancing the overall quality of the created island

BTW there is a difference between "real" and "realistic" terrain. I made DEM of Suursaari island (in Baltic Sea), fully according to the contours from GIS, transfered into 50x50 m grid. I realized that there are some lakes with their water level at 30 m above sea level - in REAL terrain represented in OFP engine, I should have left there few holes there with big signs "Here should be some water!" I decided to keep the water in the lakes so I had to lower all elevations around - I guess my terrain is REALISTIC then, keeping the landscape features where they should be. This just illustrates that you almost always have to make compromises when trying to get real world into OFP.

However, the way the terrain is processed in OFP calls for some compromises. Two main issues that prevent one from adding some of the cool real-world features are following:

1) In the engine there is no possibility to create muddy areas, "unclimbable" rocks or similar natural barriers, which influence the real warfare.

2) Resolution of OFP DEMs (50x50 meters orthogonal network) does not allow to create dykes, cliffs and other "microelements".

Final thought: Island should "feel" natural and mature, not just symetric landscape with randomly scattered idyllic villages with 300 meters of forest inbetween. It certainly should be done in a way that will a) ENCOURAGE and b) ALLOW player to use some tactics based on terrain.

@redneckehv: Your island looks cool with some advanced features, but after I downloaded, I was a bit disappointed - the lovely piece of terrain is too small. I suggest you to go large, scatter the objects a little so that they would not cause that much lag, and we get perfect Pacific island. If you spend some extra time making volcanic mountains and stuff like that, it would be simply paradise!

And I have to say I liked the village center, it looks quite different to what I have seen before - I almost felt the jungle trying to retake the buildings. Lots of work to be done, bw you are walking the right path.

Okay, it seems the mountains are discussed to death... Maybe we can move on to the resources you use as a reference for your terrain, especially for placing objects. I must say that for myself, this is wery "touchy" issue - I have spent hours scoping on aerial photography, maps and even in field, making sketches and photos of the landscape. So what is your method of "gathering intelligence" before you start making an island?

[redneckehv 0]

thank you for your thoughts. people need criticism while developing islands and addons to improve them and futre work. unfortunatly i am currently making an island for a mod so the pacific island will have to wait a while before i am able to make a final version. i am looking for a couple beta testers for the island i am developing right now however. if you are interested in taking a look let me know.

[DrFin 0]

well the more vast and diverse the the terrain ..causes a player to have better "Battlespace Management" face it folks ...we're air mobile in ofp ..no place we cant't get to on the map with FAC aircraft like scud's O-2a and light tactical aircraft like the BAS little birds. the land mass you fight on has les and less meaning then the tactics you use to overcome it ...so in closing ...map makers think of tactics when you make these things ....take cues from maps like Gaia and the hell's circus maps lots of places to make a commander stop and pause

[BoweryBaker 0]

I'm starting to see a new trend in ofp islands to where the islands come "pre-trashed". Lizardia, that new one from invasion 44. Pretty trashed out meaning, kinda already ready for war. Not so clean. I want an island to where it looks like war has hit already. Being an American that'd make sense since we go into war torn, conflicted nations.