USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[nodunit 397]

There is no NWO; there is no master plan. Western government is just fundamentally flawed in its design; the incentives for individuals operating within it are all wrong. That's the problem.

The biggest flaw is that we can't hold them accountable as traitors and have them removed from any office they stand within if they violate the constitution or bill of rights. Rather instead we have to let them get away with whatever they want to "protect america" which imo is absolute bullshit. If there was one question I could ask these guys it would have to be pure and simple "Why do YOU hate freedom and liberty?" I wonder how many people missed the NDAA or simple don't understand that, more or less it was a statement that shouts "War against YOU".

It's damn funny that Clinton could be impeached on a personal act such as cheating on his wife, and that is good enough to boot the president out, yet when you practicly declare war on your own citizens somehow that is tolerable and right. My our glorious tyrannical government forever rule, I wonder how long it will take before we become a dictatorship.. Not so much by the president but by congress.

Edited April 5, 2012 by NodUnit

[mrcash2009 0]

There is no NWO; there is no master plan. Western government is just fundamentally flawed in its design;

Well a flawed non existent plan all seems to be co incidentally working rather well right now in many places across the globe. You might want to check further as its not at government level precisely (the NWO "thing"). Centralisation of power isnt working? That's just the starting point.

[PELHAM 10]

I wonder how many people missed the NDAA or simple don't understand that, more or less it was a statement that shouts "War against YOU".

We had a long and detailed discussion about that here, if you search back and read it you might find a higher level of understanding.

[batto 17]

TSA https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/03/congressional_t.html

[walker 0]

Hi all

The fact this keeps occuring points to people who want it.

Time to find out who they are.

Then personalize this, find out who the sponsors and lobbyists are then destroy their careers and businesses through targeted actions that make life as miserable for them as they intend to make it for us. Concentrate first of all on the ones whos names appear as contributers in mutiple versions of these laws.

Create or use an existing public website with each of the perpertrators and supporters of these types of laws listed, and then let croudsourcing do its work in identifying them and what they do and how we can put such pressure on them that every other person who ever thinks they can get away with this, will think twice.

Kind Regards walker

[st_dux 26]

The fact this keeps occuring points to people who want it.

The fact that nature is so complicated points to intentional creation by a Godlike being.

(or perhaps both are examples of confirmation bias)

[walker 0]

Hi all

Start Here:

http://intelligence.house.gov/bill/cyber-intelligence-sharing-and-protection-act-2011

Compare with this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xjisu18X6s7lPtAsIQg5Ol3KJjymPT2az1kasQVwGiw/edit?pli=1#

Find the names that reoccur.

Then create an Android app same as was done for SOPA PIPA.

http://gamepolitics.com/2012/01/10/android-app-helps-you-boycott-products-made-sopa-supporters

Boycott them to hell.

Kind Regards walker

Edited April 5, 2012 by walker

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

The fact this keeps occuring points to people who want it.

Time to find out who they are.

Then personalize this, find out who the sponsors and lobbyists are then destroy their careers and businesses through targeted actions that make life as miserable for them as they intend to make it for us. Concentrate first of all on the ones whos names appear as contributers in mutiple versions of these laws.

Create or use an existing public website with each of the perpertrators and supporters of these types of laws listed, and then let croudsourcing do its work in identifying them and what they do and how we can put such pressure on them that every other person who ever thinks they can get away with this, will think twice.

Kind Regards walker

If a Government were to say something like this you would be apoplectic. But it's ok as long as you are doing it?

[walker 0]

If a Government were to say something like this you would be apoplectic. But it's ok as long as you are doing it?

Hi all

In reply to PELHAM:

Yes.

Kind Regards walker

[mrcash2009 0]

If a Government were to say something like this you would be apoplectic. But it's ok as long as you are doing it?

A government isn't a human its an organisation setup to serve its people, and when an organisation shows to be doing what it wasn't set out for then its a different matter, im not in full agreement with walker but lets make that clear. This is even more so when you have funding and law on your side, while that is taken from people who cant do the same outside of the organsition (afford it or have a legal team to deal with it).

I speak in general not on what Walker is refering too.

Edited April 5, 2012 by mrcash2009

[walker 0]

If a Government were to say something like this you would be apoplectic. But it's ok as long as you are doing it?

Hi all

Addendum to my above post in reply to PELHAM.

By the way when a government did this to a whole Country; to whit Iraq I was not apoplectic; I merely pointed out that if the basis for what they were doing was wrong then the leaders of the those states involved should have their personal fortunes reduced to such a level so as to force them to live in public housing on a sink estate / housing project. I still hold to that view.

Further PELHAM if you look through my posts I have always made it clear that I am an Anarchist and full time member of the awkward squad. I have no problem what so ever in calling down political and economic hell and damnation on those who misuse power ascribed to them by electorates and capital.

As to organisations that misuse their political and economic power; they need to be corrected. One has only to consider what Murdoch's News Corp has been proven to have done; in order to realise that unchecked, such organisations run to the most vile of actions and attitudes.

Bankrupting those who run corporations in such a way is essential to the capitalist business concept of Moral Hazard and its modes of punishment and correction. More importantly it is a lever for the correct control of said legal fictions.

Kind Regards walker

Edited April 5, 2012 by walker
grammar

[nettrucker 143]

There is no NWO; there is no master plan. Western government is just fundamentally flawed in its design; the incentives for individuals operating within it are all wrong. That's the problem.

With all due respect. Ten years of research tells me otherwise.

[st_dux 26]

With all due respect. Ten years of research tells me otherwise.

With all due respect: http://xkcd.com/258/

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

In reply to PELHAM:

Yes.

Kind Regards walker

So if you don't get your own way you turn violent?

@ Both, there are democratic systems in place that are available to you. If you can't get enough people to share your opinion it means you have the minority view. Turning violent because you can't get what you want is behaviour commonly found in small children and usually should be corrected at that stage. The fact that democracy doesn't work for you and the fact that your views are minority views should tell you all that you need to know.

[walker 0]

Hi all

1) In what way is putting political and economic pressure on politicians, businesses or individuals engaged in actions designed to spy on peoples/voters/taxpayers personal data violent?

2) In what way is engaging in actions designed to spy on peoples/voters/taxpayers personal data NOT violent?

Kind Regards walker

[mrcash2009 0]

With all due respect: http://xkcd.com/258/

Even I thought that was pretty funny actually, thanks for the link ;).

That clears it all up, everything is fine again ... phew!.

@ Both, there are democratic systems in place that are available to you. If you can't get enough people to share your opinion it means you have the minority view. Turning violent because you can't get what you want is behaviour commonly found in small children and usually should be corrected at that stage. The fact that democracy doesn't work for you and the fact that your views are minority views should tell you all that you need to know.

@ Both ... as in myself included? I posted the distinction between your justification about a human and a government as being the same, that is all.

But, if you did not refer to me on that, then ignore this.

Edited April 5, 2012 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

That isn't what you said is it?

Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post

Hi all

The fact this keeps occuring points to people who want it.

Time to find out who they are.

Then personalize this, find out who the sponsors and lobbyists are then destroy their careers and businesses through targeted actions that make life as miserable for them as they intend to make it for us. Concentrate first of all on the ones whos names appear as contributers in mutiple versions of these laws.

Create or use an existing public website with each of the perpertrators and supporters of these types of laws listed, and then let croudsourcing do its work in identifying them and what they do and how we can put such pressure on them that every other person who ever thinks they can get away with this, will think twice.

Kind Regards walker

And who appointed you and gave you the right to do that? Who voted for it? Did you get a majority? What were the results of your election?

[mrcash2009 0]

And who appointed you and gave you the right to do that? Who voted for it? Did you get a majority? What were the results of your election?

Its a forum not a ballot station.

[PELHAM 10]

It's called freedom and democracy, mrcash, do you get it?

[Tonci87 163]

It's called freedom and democracy, mrcash, do you get it?

Those words from the guy that would trade freedom for "safety" any day....

[mrcash2009 0]

No Pelham, clearly I dont according to you.

Just saying that your systematic example of how people should go about things is why we are where we are at the moment, its just a maze to go down and be lost within, unless you have decent affiliations, bat for certain teams, financial input, anough money, or legal teams. Sometimes things have to be done an alternate way that is not the way your told to do it, but in your eyes that's somehow going to be violent and like a child to be "corrected" early on. If people suggest things that shock you, that only mirror the goverment in the end results, but by default the government doesn't shock you, then that says quite allot.

I would like to see your responce to someone who loses a job or gets sacked and cant fight back due to lack of funds or legal aid being taken away, what then? They have to fight by going through the correct channels and get people to vote for them and run for office, if they dont get the votes they should shut up as they are the minority? Nice work.

You might want to look at middle class and below and take a good look of the options they have thought the "correct channels" while things are being cut.

The fact that democracy doesn't work for you and the fact that your views are minority views should tell you all that you need to know.

Feel free to spread your loving words to people who aren't getting the options and choices and cuts in this world currently (and more than likely have voted or even fought in a war), they will love your majority ways :) Although wo betide them talking outside the correct channels, thats just not sporting enough.

Edited April 5, 2012 by mrcash2009

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to the post by PELHAM:

POINT 1)

PELHAM says that I have incited physical violence:

So if you don't get your own way you turn violent?

...

Hi all

The fact this keeps occuring points to people who want it.

Time to find out who they are.

Then personalize this, find out who the sponsors and lobbyists are then destroy their careers and businesses through targeted actions that make life as miserable for them as they intend to make it for us. Concentrate first of all on the ones whos names appear as contributers in mutiple versions of these laws.

Create or use an existing public website with each of the perpertrators and supporters of these types of laws listed, and then let croudsourcing do its work in identifying them and what they do and how we can put such pressure on them that every other person who ever thinks they can get away with this, will think twice.

Kind Regards walker

I There for request PELHAM to Bold the point in the statement where I ask for voiolent action?

POINT 2)

PELHAM further infers, by using weasel word journalistic rehtorical techniques, in the form of a strawman argument, in this statement:

That isn't what you said is it?

Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post ...

that I am trying to get out of a supposed argument for violence that only, I repeat for emphasis only, exists in PELHAM's strawman post.

POINT 3)

PELHAM then goes on to argue a falacy that only the electoral process has political validity and rights:

...

@ Both, there are democratic systems in place that are available to you. If you can't get enough people to share your opinion it means you have the minority view. Turning violent because you can't get what you want is behaviour commonly found in small children and usually should be corrected at that stage. The fact that democracy doesn't work for you and the fact that your views are minority views should tell you all that you need to know.

And that as person or citizen you have no rights beyond putting a cross on a piece of paper when some one lets you:

...And who appointed you and gave you the right to do that? Who voted for it? Did you get a majority? What were the results of your election?

This is beyond facile, stupid and immature, a moments thought reveals that political thought and actions are not the preserve of politicians or the old fashioned broadcast and print media journalists, and the Lobyists of big businesses.

The word is politics, it comes from the Greek Polis, it means, the city, citizenship, people. I lay claim to that as my right, both to call for political action and to speak openly and freely as is my right, I also point out, that almost without exception every political party began as protest and thus is rooted in anarchistic thought.

Further I refer you to this video on the subject from TED:

zsI3-IEWgFg

POINT 4)

PELHAM then fails to answer the questions I put to him, so I will repeat them.

Hi all

1) In what way is putting political and economic pressure on politicians, businesses or individuals engaged in actions designed to spy on peoples/voters/taxpayers personal data violent?

2) In what way is engaging in actions designed to spy on peoples/voters/taxpayers personal data NOT violent?

...

I hope the numbering makes the post easier to understand.

Kind Regards walker

[Tonci87 163]

Thank you for that video walker, pelham could use it to educate himself.

[nettrucker 143]

With all due respect: http://xkcd.com/258/

Yeah . . . real nice!!! Made me chuckle.

With all due respect back. Please take a look here.

http://ae911truth.org/

[PELHAM 10]

What if the majority of people like things the way they are? If so, by what consent do you destroy those people and businesses, yours alone? That is what is selfish and immature, you act without any justification. This shows just how corrupt your thought processes are. This is why they are looking to monitor the web, extremists acting purely in their own self interest and without any regard to law, democracy or the common good. It will cost the UK 2Billion to set this up, something I will share my part in paying purely because of a tiny minority who don't have the skills or patience to work within society.

And that as person or citizen you have no rights beyond putting a cross on a piece of paper when some one lets you:

Thing is, a lot of people did put a cross on a piece of paper, do their rights and point of view not count in Walker world? You can campaign, fight and scream all you like, you will never change the world to suit yourself.

Edited April 5, 2012 by PELHAM