USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[Fox '09 14]

As for the differences in how Democrats and Republicans tend to portray themselves in the media/while campaigning, they are just that: differences in rhetoric. Look at Democrats and Republicans in office, especially recently. Barack Obama and George Bush, portrayed in the media as diametrically opposed forces of nature, both pursued (or are pursuing) essentially the exact same political agenda. Bush put in place a massive expansion of Medicare (prescription drug coverage) and tried to fix education at the federal level with No Child Left Behind. Obama has expanded our military presence in the Middle East and even entered into a conflict in Libya that no one was asking for. Above all, both expanded the power of the federal government, a trend that has persisted with few exceptions regardless of which party has been in power since the New Deal.

I don't understand how you drew from your comparison the conclusion that goverment expansion is the problem. My point was that the defense department spending hundreds of billion of dollars on the military is not the same as spending the same amount on a single payer system, mostly because one isn't productive and the other is providing healthcare. Clumping together fraud and corruption with a functioning system just doesn't make sense to me.

It's not that removing money from politics wouldn't help. It's that removing money from politics is impossible. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely: There is no caveat that allows for legislation to change anything about this axiom. If we want to limit the corruption, we need to limit the power. How much should it be limited? In my view, as much as possible without damaging the government's ability to protect essential liberty, i.e., individual freedom from coercion.

You can remove it from elections , and you can make it damn hard to allow anyone who worked in goverment to become a lobbyist, but yes, there will still be corruption. I don't deny that power corrupts, the idea of having corporations that control production is the power i'm worried about. How will the goverment ever get out of the hole it is in? Are they REALLY going to let go of their subsidies, tax breaks, wars, and influence around the world so easily? Perhaps I'm drawing the wrong conclusions, but it seems like the market consumed the goverment -not the other way around. The power of the goverment is extremely inviting , yes, but how do you propose to change the system? If the problem is that people haven't been following the constitution, going back to it isn't the solution to me, it's trying to stop it from happening in the first place.

My main point on campaign finance reform is that no matter how much you want your ideas to be implemented, it will never happen so long as today's corporations control elections.

Regarding your appeal to pragmatism -- "sometimes government works, sometimes it doesn't" -- how do you define "works"? What are the merits of a single payer healthcare system versus the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990? The problem with (patently non-ideological) ideologies like pragmatism is that they have no logical foundation, forcing them to rely on implicit assumptions that are often nonsensical.

I think you're twisting my words too far, perhaps I would otherwise label myself liberal, but that doesn't mean I can't be convinced on certain issues. Which goes back to the context of my comment, the ADA vs single payer. Both ARE goverment involvement, except the ADA is used through the judicial system to intimidate businesses into settling. Forcing companies with crappy regulations to make certain numbers of parking spots also seems like a bad idea. My point is that just because goverment fails, doesn't mean it always does on everything. You can fix those issues, or you can come to a compromise that makes the ADA regulations voluntary or what have you. Is there no middle ground that works?

[nettrucker 142]

Well I guess it depends on how "remote" you want your definition of fascism to be. Until we have a viable political party that unambiguously comes out against something as fundamental to our legal system as free association, for example, I would say that we don't have any serious fascists running for office. Nazi Germany was fascist. 21st century American Republicans, as over-the-top as their rhetoric may be at times, do not politically resemble Nazis in practice (not even remotely). . . .

It's a slightly different form of fascism IMO. Read the article of this link I've posted some pages ago. It explains some basic things about the political doctrine of the "NEOCONS"

http://tvnewslies.org/tvnl/index.php/george-w-bush/ethics/427-required-reading-for-bush-supporters.html

For being honest I see it as an evolved form of fascism. The current 2 political party system is just a masquerade of fascism hiding behind democracy. Democracy has become an empty word all over the world. Politicians are not carrying out the will of the people, they are following their own agenda no matter what. Therefore I don't trust them . . . none of them. Ther only country I know of which still has some kind of Democracy is Switzerland. People can oppose successfully bad laws by referendum.

I guess it depends on the point of view. For me the USA has turned into a fascist state since the NEOCON's took power. Obama is just expanding it's current status quo.

Edit: I wish to implement this link to this interesting video.

http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2012/04/aftermath-unanswered-questions-911

regards

Edited April 16, 2012 by nettrucker
added link to video

[nettrucker 142]

Here's another interesting vid to watch.

D5ZqFlZEY_w&feature=relmfu

[Fox '09 14]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/19/allen-west-defends-ted-nugent_n_1437794.html?ref=elections-2012

Allen West, the uncle tom for corporations, the token black tea bagger, and today's McCarthy defends draft dodging idiot Ted Nugent.

Kidding aside, can't believe my state elected this idiot. I doubt he will get any traction. The american public may be ignorant and easily led by fear, but I think they've become wiser over this economic crisis.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Fox '09

[mrcash2009 0]

h19FZtDprd0

IL State Representative Mike Bost has had it up to here with pension reforms. State House of Representatives in Springfield, Illinois. Tuesday, May 29th 2012.

Just saw a link to this so I posted for ref here, honesty within anger = silent room.

[GRS 10]

Politics needs more of that. Call him crazy, but it's nice to see someone who isn't a robot.

[mrcash2009 0]

Crazy no, strangled by red tape and procedures (device) to limit him to utter frustration, definitely.

[Fox '09 14]

Agreed, we need more of this.

[nodunit 397]

That man needs to be re-elected, that is the kind of attitude we need in politics, not this calm spoken regardless of circumstances as though they don't care about the consequences, working for whoever would line their pocket, tossing in bills at the last second and expecting signings without the time to read and analyze them.

I hope others cheer this man on for this, rather than condemn him for "losing his cool", because this man is right..our political system is nothing short of a Joke, and it's great to see a political figure with some human element rather than sitting in their chair idle, smiling as if nothing is at stake..

Edited June 4, 2012 by NodUnit

[mrcash2009 0]

tossing in bills at the last second and expecting signings without the time to read and analyze them

In this day and age of the types of legislation going through this is a perfect result.

[nettrucker 142]

After watching this vid,

M9x26WETCz4

which is just a confirmation of my personal opinion, I would like to ask my fellow American community members about their opinion . . . do you think the USA has turned to fascism?

Please let's keep the discussion civil since I'm being well aware that it is a delicate argument.

Thanks for your understanding and your effort.

Edited June 15, 2012 by nettrucker

[Hans Ludwig 0]

After watching this vid,

which is just a confirmation of my personal opinion, I would like to ask my fellow American community members about their opinion . . . do you think the USA has turned to fascism?

Please let's keep the discussion civil since I'm being well aware that it is a delicate argument.

Thanks for your understanding and you effort.

Would Bohemia Interactive Simulations s.r.o. be apart of the "war profiting" corporatist?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Hans Ludwig

[nettrucker 142]

I'm in difficulty to understand the relevance of your question to the video I've posted. I can't answer your question.

[mrcash2009 0]

And quoting videos ... tsk tsk. :cool:

[Hans Ludwig 0]

I'm in difficulty to understand the relevance of your question to the video I've posted. I can't answer your question.

Next time you should actually watch the entire video. If you did, you could have easily answered my question, which only required a simple yes or no.

[nettrucker 142]

Next time you should actually watch the entire video. If you did, you could have easily answered my question, which only required a simple yes or no.

I actually did watch the whole video and not only one time. Still don't understand what BI Simulation has to do with PNAC. The video refers definitely more to corporations like Lockheed Martin, Boeing and so on. I wouldn't say that BI Simulation is a war profiting company when comparing them to the big defense contractors. So the answer is no . . . I'n not considering them really as a war profitering corporation or company.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

I actually did watch the whole video and not only one time. Still don't understand what BI Simulation has to do with PNAC. The video refers definitely more to corporations like Lockheed Martin, Boeing and so on. I wouldn't say that BI Simulation is a war profiting company when comparing them to the big defense contractors. So the answer is no . . . I'n not considering them really as a war profitering corporation or company.

You have a twisted way of looking at things, Nettrucker. You on the one hand demonize Boeing and Lockheed for providing a good or service to the "military industrial complex", but then you leave me with the impression its perfectly ok for the below-referenced business entity to do the same thing.

"Bohemia Interactive Simulations is a world leader in providing simulation technologies and integrated training solutions for military and civilian organizations around the globe."

[mrcash2009 0]

Arming/building & creation of the actual arms, actual funding & supply for wars to actually take place are a BIG difference to a training company with training technology within that field, so its not that twisted at all.

Banking systems profit from war, you use banks, banks have training companies, people work in them .... so you know, that can be thrown around a million different ways.

Edited June 16, 2012 by mrcash2009

[nettrucker 142]

You have a twisted way of looking at things, Nettrucker. You on the one hand demonize Boeing and Lockheed for providing a good or service to the "military industrial complex", but then you leave me with the impression its perfectly ok for the below-referenced business entity to do the same thing.

"Bohemia Interactive Simulations is a world leader in providing simulation technologies and integrated training solutions for military and civilian organizations around the globe."

I wouldn't define it as twisted. The situation is very complex and not easily explained. What I'm concerned about is . . . how the US has changed over the last decades and it's enourmous influence on Europe. For being honest I'm feeling sometimes scared shitless when I see what's going on this world.

[nettrucker 142]

Seems that also some Congressmen are waking up to reality. Watch this!!!!!

8Y-u0UnKZ_U&feature=player_embedded

[GRS 10]

How could we not be? Our government is terrible.

[froggyluv 2130]

Meh, gas prices are falling, a Justice voted his conscience rather then party lines, Osama's dead and I don't have to cross checkpoints to get to my business in the morning.

I'm happy :)

[GRS 10]

I can be legally detained for any length of time for no reason because I have a pantry full of food and some guns, gas prices are falling but still way above what they should be, and an unconstitutional... thing... was allowed anyways by an incompetent government body after way too long of a wait. I don't quite share your enthusiasm. I went out to enjoy life, but there was a law against it. Sure, it could be much worse, but that's not reason to not want something better. This crap is hardly a democracy.

Edited June 29, 2012 by GRS

[nettrucker 142]

How could we not be? Our government is terrible.

Don't worry bro European Governments are even more terrible IMO.

Meh, gas prices are falling, a Justice voted his conscience rather then party lines, Osama's dead and I don't have to cross checkpoints to get to my business in the morning.

I'm happy :)

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

In any case we're all in the same boat and it starts to sink.

[Mr. Charles 22]

gas prices are falling but still way above what they should be

How high are they?

Been to the gas station today. 1,60€ per liter here.