USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[Cotala Studios 10]

haha. haha. haha. haha times a trillion gajillion bazillion

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

from the last link:

Militias are not illegal in any state if you use legal weapons and and get legal funding and also don't make plans to overthrow the government.

but isn't that exactly what he was planning on doing :confused: (overthrowing the gov't that is). Maybe I'm just being my stupid self, who has spent the last 16 years of his life (yes my entire life) traveling from military base to military base looking at all the big guns and bombs and shit that the US currently has, but I'm pretty sure of two things. 1) the FBI is already watching you, and if they aren't, they will be very soon, I promise you. 2) If they aren't watching you, and you did try to overthrow the government, didn't you ever think that upstate new york would be a pretty bad place to do it?

Edit: Infamous, I reported your post to the Admins, not to go against you, but to use as evidence that Mr. Pvierra pirated their game. They may be contacting you idk. I almost contacted the FBI, but decided they had better things to do than watch former members of a fake militia who are stupid enough to post about it on the internet. With pvierra's instincts, theyve already been outed.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Cotala Studios

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

I still want to know where this militia is and what it is called...

I want to join - I'm an ex-Marine Delta SEAL, and the boathouse in Hereford is pink with polka dots.

Me too. I'm a ninja.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

1. Most militias are 100% legal

2. Most militias don't plan for the offensive, and instead plan for the defensive

3. The constitution of the united states says that militias should be kept well functioning (original definition of regulated in 2nd amendment). This means that if militias begin to dwindle, the government should make it even easier for people to start one.

4. Do to the fact that a police force was not originally intended to assist in upholding law in the United States, militias were largely responsible for such matters. Militias were not only ready to repel invasion and keep the government in check, but to assist communities in natural disasters (yes, there were no fireman)

5. Militiamen were simply citizens who take it upon themselves to uphold law, and many militias were erected by authority to assist in outlaw uprisings.

6. As the government decided to create centrally controlled publicly funded forces, the need for a militia began to grow smaller.

7. However, the downside is central control allows the original check and balance of revolution, secession, and other such historical threats to vanish and become weak.

8. Finally, the United States was originally a decentralized minimalistic government, and relied upon states, and the people to self control. Unlike in the soviet union, people being richer was supposed to outnumber the government being richer. But now that is no longer, as centralization has began to take its affect in American politics. After a century of heavier and heavier government, we are now stuck business super cycles created by the federal reserve, and government authority beyond what most people can imagine. In many ways, the American government is more fascist and controlling than even hitler could have produced. Those who call the self informed paranoid are generally ignorant of the obvious problems. Such as, the fat man sitting on a pile of cash choosing who the wealth is given too. That is the system we have today, and eventually, something will snap, and that is what every militiamen I know of is ready for. Its not about revolution and taking a hold on the government, its being ready to survive the hell that awaits. Its about rising out of the ashes of an inward collapse.

[Big Mac 19]

1. Most militias are 100% legal

2. Most militias don't plan for the offensive, and instead plan for the defensive

3. The constitution of the united states says that militias should be kept well functioning (original definition of regulated in 2nd amendment). This means that if militias begin to dwindle, the government should make it even easier for people to start one.

4. Do to the fact that a police force was not originally intended to assist in upholding law in the United States, militias were largely responsible for such matters. Militias were not only ready to repel invasion and keep the government in check, but to assist communities in natural disasters (yes, there were no fireman)

5. Militiamen were simply citizens who take it upon themselves to uphold law, and many militias were erected by authority to assist in outlaw uprisings.

6. As the government decided to create centrally controlled publicly funded forces, the need for a militia began to grow smaller.

7. However, the downside is central control allows the original check and balance of revolution, secession, and other such historical threats to vanish and become weak.

8. Finally, the United States was originally a decentralized minimalistic government, and relied upon states, and the people to self control. Unlike in the soviet union, people being richer was supposed to outnumber the government being richer. But now that is no longer, as centralization has began to take its affect in American politics. After a century of heavier and heavier government, we are now stuck business super cycles created by the federal reserve, and government authority beyond what most people can imagine. In many ways, the American government is more fascist and controlling than even hitler could have produced. Those who call the self informed paranoid are generally ignorant of the obvious problems. Such as, the fat man sitting on a pile of cash choosing who the wealth is given too. That is the system we have today, and eventually, something will snap, and that is what every militiamen I know of is ready for. Its not about revolution and taking a hold on the government, its being ready to survive the hell that awaits. Its about rising out of the ashes of an inward collapse.

That's why we have a National Guard. If ya wanna be in a militia that is 100% legal go guard.

[Cotala Studios 10]

That's why we have a National Guard. If ya wanna be in a militia that is 100% legal go guard.

but he thinks that the gaurd are gaurding the awful american government remember? :j:

[Big Mac 19]

but he thinks that the gaurd are gaurding the awful american government remember? :j:

And it's people like him who pray for America to be invaded. They watch Red Dawn and get a hard on.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Given the international image of the average American I think that I am justified in finding the idea of a militia a bit concerning. This is in no-way flamebait, I'm just working with the impression I have been given by the media and my own interactions with our cousins over the pond.

I respect the fact that you want to be ready for armageddon and do your bit when the balloon goes up but let's be serious about this, if the USA gets invaded do you really think that the pre-invasion NBC strike will leave much for you to protect?

Personally, if my country was invaded by a hostile force then I'd be out there doing whatever I could to protect my family using the diverse skills and knowledge that I have but I have better things to do until that day than run around in the woods playing soldier and thinking I'm anything other than an overgrown boy-scout.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Given the international image of the average American I think that I am justified in finding the idea of a militia a bit concerning. This is in no-way flamebait, I'm just working with the impression I have been given by the media and my own interactions with our cousins over the pond.

I respect the fact that you want to be ready for armageddon and do your bit when the balloon goes up but let's be serious about this, if the USA gets invaded do you really think that the pre-invasion NBC strike will leave much for you to protect?

Personally, if my country was invaded by a hostile force then I'd be out there doing whatever I could to protect my family using the diverse skills and knowledge that I have but I have better things to do until that day than run around in the woods playing soldier and thinking I'm anything other than an overgrown boy-scout.

I 100% agree, and you will be surprised to know thats exactly what most militia do. Most militias are families, and for every militia you see or hear about, there is 100 more that are secretive to the max on purpose. I'm not in a militia, but I trust most and understand most militias because of the purpose they serve. There is hardly any difference between police and militia except police get special privileges and protection if they screw up. In many ways the police are even more powerful than the military because they can fire upon without being fired upon. Militia were mainly to do what the police do now, except they dont get special privileges, so a militiamen is even more harmless to society than a mentally ill law enforcement officer. If a militia shoots an innocent suspect, then they will all be arrested for murder. Despite michigan militias sell out history, they preach what is very close to original militia. Now, there are many examples of militias being set up, such as hutaree. Look into that case and you will really see that instead of being religious freaks planning to kill cops, they were a family with religious values doing absolutely nothing wrong. Its true that a lot of them are made up of simple minded country folk, but there are a lot in this new age that are cyber savvy constitutionalists gathering intel without even owning a firearm.

In the ultimate government by the people, the people themselves are responsible local upkeep, not police or national guard.

[BronzeEagle 2]

As far as nukes cancelling out the idea of a militia goes.....wealth is america's only gamble for not getting nuked. the cost going into nuking america because your life sux, will only make your life suck more when its over, and thats how we get the american security we have today.

Edited September 12, 2010 by BronzeEagle

[ryguy 10]

America being successfully/seriously invaded is a fairy tale and literally nothing else, I've never seen any real evidence that it is even nearly feasible. We are geographically isolated with 2,000 miles of ocean separating us from any powerful countries that don't share our ideals. This fact alone means we can see a threat coming from light years away. And you can't just invade a country with military installations strewn about it.... The population factor (300+ million people) alone negates the possibility. Besides, no country has any real reason for it. Anyone who seriously thinks there is a chance of red dawn happening is paranoid.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

America being successfully/seriously invaded is a fairy tale and literally nothing else, I've never seen any real evidence that it is even nearly feasible. We are geographically isolated with 2,000 miles of ocean separating us from any powerful countries that don't share our ideals. This fact alone means we can see a threat coming from light years away. And you can't just invade a country with military installations strewn about it.... The population factor (300+ million people) alone negates the possibility. Besides, no country has any real reason for it. Anyone who seriously thinks there is a chance of red dawn happening is paranoid.

And what good is a powerful military with no money or fuel to run it? Is the collapse of the soviet union not an example of a powerful nation falling to its knee's? I'm sure its easy to be ignorant of the possibility. Red dawn was obviously a propaganda film, an entertaining one at that. Perhaps you cannot grasp the entire picture I have described, not just the invasion part?

[Big Mac 19]

And what good is a powerful military with no money or fuel to run it? Is the collapse of the soviet union not an example of a powerful nation falling to its knee's?

That's over simplifying the collapse of the USSR. What made coup successful and not an outright slaughter was the fact that the military refused suppress the coup.

Having a "militia" won't prevent your rights as an american being infringed upon it only encourages the stereotype of americans and in the long run creates a power struggle where all the political parties have their own private armies to force their political and religious beliefs down everyone's throats and that is how civil wars are started.

[Laqueesha 474]

America being successfully/seriously invaded is a fairy tale and literally nothing else, I've never seen any real evidence that it is even nearly feasible. We are geographically isolated with 2,000 miles of ocean separating us from any powerful countries that don't share our ideals. This fact alone means we can see a threat coming from light years away. And you can't just invade a country with military installations strewn about it. The population factor (300+ million people) alone negates the possibility. Besides, no country has any real reason for it. Anyone who seriously thinks there is a chance of red dawn happening is paranoid.

Invading is the easy part. Holding onto it...

[tacticalnuggets 24]

That's over simplifying the collapse of the USSR. What made coup successful and not an outright slaughter was the fact that the military refused suppress the coup.

Having a "militia" won't prevent your rights as an american being infringed upon it only encourages the stereotype of americans and in the long run creates a power struggle where all the political parties have their own private armies to force their political and religious beliefs down everyone's throats and that is how civil wars are started.

Stereotype of americans? What stereotype, there is the "typical fat american", "stupid american", "red neck american", "patriotic american"? Why do you trust someone having all power rather than everyone controlling their own lives? There have been thousands of civil wars throughout time, and thousands of times where a civil war could have saved more of the people that lived there (funny, violence solving something). If peace is an option then i'm for it, right now, peace is an option. But what happens when peace isn't an option? Will you just let them put the chains on you as you work the corporatist farms?

[froggyluv 2136]

Now, there are many examples of militias being set up, such as hutaree. Look into that case and you will really see that instead of being religious freaks planning to kill cops, they were a family with religious values doing absolutely nothing wrong. Its true that a lot of them are made up of simple minded country folk, .

Ok, looked up the Hutaree on Wiki:

the group's web site says that it means "Christian warriors".

group was allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, who they believed would be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments.

On their website, all police and military members who would support the current U.S. system of local, state or federal government were described as members of the "brotherhood", and were considered by the Hutaree to be "enemies".

From March 28 to March 30, 2010, nine people thought to be Hutaree members were arrested in police raids in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana (in Hammond), for their alleged involvement in a plot to kill various police officers and possibly civilians using illegal explosives and/or firearms

An article on the Hutaree website suggested that Javier Solana, former Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and of the Western European Union, may be the Antichrist

The United States Attorney's Office stated that the Hutaree allegedly planned "to kill an unidentified member of local law enforcement and then attack the law enforcement officers who gather in Michigan for the funeral".

The FBI was aided in its investigation by members of another militia group who had learned of the Hutaree's plans

How exactly are this group any different from a Jihadist group? I don't think they make for a good example of "peaceful family who just want to protect themselves".

[Big Mac 19]

Now, there are many examples of militias being set up, such as hutaree. Look into that case and you will really see that instead of being religious freaks planning to kill cops, they were a family with religious values doing absolutely nothing wrong.

When I read this I started laughing..at you.

Stereotype of americans? What stereotype, there is the "typical fat american", "stupid american", "red neck american", "patriotic american"? Why do you trust someone having all power rather than everyone controlling their own lives

Are you really so dense that you can't figure out which stereotype I'm talking about? Everyone already controls their own lives...

There have been thousands of civil wars throughout time, and thousands of times where a civil war could have saved more of the people that lived there (funny, violence solving something). If peace is an option then i'm for it, right now, peace is an option. But what happens when peace isn't an option? Will you just let them put the chains on you as you work the corporatist farms?

So you'd be fine with another american civil war? Edited September 13, 2010 by Big Mac

[froggyluv 2136]

So you'd be fine with another american civil war?

I think this notion gets romanticized in some of the Milita circles. They don't realize how bloody awful it would be, weakening our Nation to such an extent that we would be easy prey for other advesaries and we could very well end up looking like 1776 -in a bad way....

[Big Mac 19]

I think this notion gets romanticized in some of the Milita circles. They don't realize how bloody awful it would be, weakening our Nation to such an extent that we would be easy prey for other advesaries and we could very well end up looking like 1776 -in a bad way....

I agree. I stopped taking him seriously when he said Hutaree was just a family with "religious values." A lot of these so called militiamen are nothing more than rednecks and gun nuts who shoot at beer cans all day.

[BigMorgan 11]

A lot of these so called militiamen are nothing more than rednecks and gun nuts who shoot at beer cans all day.

Maybe I'm just a "city boy" - but show me an example of a militia group that doesn't match the above criteria? lol

Ah well I'm just surprised this thread isn't a giant piss-on-Obama fest and now I'm a little disappointed. :p

[BronzeEagle 2]

in the end the only thing that saves a democracy is the cultures it contains. just look at china, for years they were on their last leg now they're number two in the economic world above even japan, why you ask, because of their culture.

[Big Mac 19]

in the end the only thing that saves a democracy is the cultures it contains. just look at china, for years they were on their last leg now they're number two in the economic world above even japan, why you ask, because of their culture.

A culture of sweatshops and cheap labor?

[Cotala Studios 10]

in the end the only thing that saves a democracy is the cultures it contains. just look at china, for years they were on their last leg now they're number two in the economic world above even japan, why you ask, because of their culture.

Didn't China turn communist in like... i dunno... 1950?

[ryguy 10]

Now, there are many examples of militias being set up, such as hutaree. Look into that case and you will really see that instead of being religious freaks planning to kill cops, they were a family with religious values doing absolutely nothing wrong. Its true that a lot of them are made up of simple minded country folk, but there are a lot in this new age that are cyber savvy constitutionalists gathering intel without even owning a firearm.

And I quote wikipedia, if you would like a more "reliable" source I can get you one (But honestly why would you want one, Wikipedia is a bunch of cyber-savvy encyclopediaists gathering information without even being payed. It's the ultimate encyclopedia run by the people, not Merriam-Webster or Brittanica.)

The group was formed in early 2008. The name "Hutaree" appears to be a neologism; the group's web site says that it means "Christian warriors". [2]

The group was allegedly preparing for what they believed would be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist, who they believed would be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments. On their website, all police and military members who would support the current U.S. system of local, state or federal government were described as members of the "brotherhood", and were considered by the Hutaree to be "enemies".

From March 28 to March 30, 2010, nine people thought to be Hutaree members were arrested in police raids in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana (in Hammond), for their alleged involvement in a plot to kill various police officers and possibly civilians using illegal explosives and/or firearms. [3] An undercover agent played a role in the investigation that led indictments. Grand jury testimony by a law enforcement officer referred to an "undercover FBI agent" who worked on the case, the FBI declined to comment, but infiltration is a common tactic for law-enforcement officials targeting domestic militia groups.[4]

(Sounds an awful lot like religious nuts to me!)

It just gets better and better... http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/03/29/nine-members-of-the-hutaree-militia/

Edited September 14, 2010 by ryguy

[Big Mac 19]

Sounds like they've been reading way too much of the Left Behind series..

[ryguy 10]

Look into that case and you will really see that instead of being religious freaks planning to kill cops, they were a family with religious values doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Dude, are you shitting me?!