Gunmen take 200+ student hostages

[Ironsight 1]

What I was wondering (don't know why it's never done before): Why don't they put sedatives in the food they give to the hostages and the hostage takers?

[theavonlady 2]

What I was wondering (don't know why it's never done before): Why don't they put sedatives in the food they give to the hostages and the hostage takers?

Discussed already.

How much time will it take for the terrorists to figure they've been drugged and blow everyone up before they have a chance to catch a good nap?

[Tovarish 0]

What I was wondering (don't know why it's never done before): Why don't they put sedatives in the food they give to the hostages and the hostage takers?

Sedatives are very delicate and can easily kill you, like the theatre crisis showed. In a hospital, they will calculate the exact dosage for you based on your weight. For something that would work instantly, what would take down a terrorist would certainly kill a child. Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?

[Ironsight 1]

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning

[theavonlady 2]

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning  

How do you know they didn't pack provisions?

[Badgerboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Ironsight @ Sep. 02 2004,18:35)

Quote (Tovarish @ Sep. 02 2004,17:29)

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning

How do you know they didn't pack provisions?

Err guys, your forgetting something.

It's a school. A school with a canteen. They will have at least several days of food available to them, plus running water and nice crockery.

[Ironsight 1]

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning  

How do you know they didn't pack provisions?

If they did, then I think only for the first 48 hours they also had to take heavy weapons, ammo and explosives with them.

[theavonlady 2]

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning  

How do you know they didn't pack provisions?

If they did, then I think only for the first 48 hours

I'll have to pay you a visit and teach you how to pack.

[Ironsight 1]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Ironsight @ Sep. 02 2004,18:35)

Quote (Tovarish @ Sep. 02 2004,17:29)

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning  

How do you know they didn't pack provisions?

Err guys, your forgetting something.

It's a school. A school with a canteen. They will have at least several days of food available to them, plus running water and nice crockery.

Depends on how large the canteen is. School cafeteria's don't have a lot of food in stock.

And you can cut of the water suplies and say it's a mechanical problem.

[Ironsight 1]

I'll have to pay you a visit and teach you how to pack.

That's not what I meant they pack only for the first 48 hours because they know they get food from the red cross or something like that.

[theavonlady 2]

I'll have to pay you a visit and teach you how to pack.

That's not what I meant they pack only for the first 48 hours because they know they get food from the red cross or something like that.

But they're not taking food from the outside, are they?

[Badgerboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Ironsight @ Sep. 02 2004,18:35)

Quote (Tovarish @ Sep. 02 2004,17:29)

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning  

How do you know they didn't pack provisions?

Err guys, your forgetting something.

It's a school. A school with a canteen. They will have at least several days of food available to them, plus running water and nice crockery.

Depends on how large the canteen is. School cafeteria's don't have a lot of food in stock.

And you can cut of the water suplies and say it's a mechanical problem.

From the details I've put together, the school appears to be a Russian 'middle' school, which would make it at least a comprehensive here. That would amount to roughly 400 - 1000 pupils, plus staff at max capacity.

Institutions like that tend to have large canteen areas, especially if it was a Soviet era built school.

Regarding the water situation, the authorities have mentioned they won't turn it off, but if they did, I know some schools have large tanks of water for emergencies. Mine did, and was designed if an emergency forced the school to keep pupils in the building for long periods of time. (That happened once, and was a chemical gas leak from a factory a few miles away)

As for the Red Cross, I highly doubt it. They don't want to get involved with an illegal group like that, and there is no way in hell the Russians would allow them to even if they did. I believe groups like are not in their remit, and therefore cannot provide aid/food in situations like that. Actions like that are left up to the 'host' country.

[Pathy 0]

One simple sentence from me:

I hope the Russians waste those child murdering Chechen excuses for humans.

I guess someone will come and tell me how simple minded that is, but at the end of the day, this is plain and simple "terrorism" (ie, it cannot be looked on from any direction as being part of "freedom fighting"), because these children have nothing to do with the chechen conflict, they are total innocents, and anyone who does what these terrorists are doing deserves death.

One other point. The Russians will probably not go in guns blazing. Whatever you may think of the Russians, they, like many cultures, love children and you can (hopefully) be sure that they will do thier utmost not to harm them in whatever action follows.

[Foxtrot87 0]

Quote[/b] ]Institutions like that tend to have large canteen areas, especially if it was a Soviet era built school.

Have you ever tried food which is given in Russian school canteens? If the terrorists do they'll die of vomiting. And they deserve death.

[soul_assassin 1723]

Quote[/b] ]Institutions like that tend to have large canteen areas, especially if it was a Soviet era built school.

Have you ever tried food which is given in Russian school canteens? If the terrorists do they'll die of vomiting. And they deserve death.

yep, he's got a point there. I dont know how I held out for 2.5 years there.

[Nemesis6 0]

On a slightly different topic - I heard that a large number of the terrorists inside the school are women. I wonder if they're baking cookies for the children while the men stand and look dangerous! :-)

On a more serious note - Only options in this are really that they either storm the building as fast as they can, or just hope for affliction of the situation.

[bn880 5]

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning

The hostages will be weak/starving, not the hostage takers. Man, if you can plan a hostage taking liek this, with booby traps and bombs, you sure as hell are going to plan for food.

[HotShot 0]

Besides. Do you think all the terrorists would be eating at the exact same time?  

Yes, they will be starving right now. They haven't ate or drink anything since yesterday morning  

 The hostages will be weak/starving, not the hostage takers.  Man, if you can plan a hostage taking liek this, with booby traps and bombs, you sure as hell are going to plan for food.  

I dunno bn, it's pretty easy to forget mum's sandwhich's on the way out...

[Balschoiw 0]

There were explosions over the day...and lots of firing...I guess a lot of children are already dead. This is a no win situation. Neither for the chechens nor for Putin. It´s useless, unwanted and disgusting.

I´ve seen OMON operators go away crying...that doesn´t look especially good.

[sanctuary 19]

Last infos i heard some minutes ago from bbc world (as there was nothing more on french news) , there was only the same report recorded about the explosions heard in the last hours.

I can just hope that the hostages are alive.

And that a last bit of humanity will appear in the terrorist group and lead them to stop their disgusting actions.

I saw that they even have babies in hostage, when in the report i noticed the babies freed.

As i saw animals saving human lives, i can't even call those beings "animals", they are way lower than that.

[Sovietman 0]

For Russia-out-of-Chechnya crowd, you really should study the news archives involving Dagestan from August-September 1999. There is a lot of relevant info there, like this piece:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/419961.stm

Quote[/b] ]

In the name of God the Merciful, the Compassionate!

Muslims of Dagestan! For 140 years Islamic Dagestan has lived under the occupation of the Russian infidel.

For 140 years Dagestan has been ruled by the law of the Devil and his servants.

For 140 years Muslim Dagestan has been humiliated.

The reason for this was the fact that we had strayed from Jihad and acknowledged the authority of the infidels over us.

The situation has changed today. Muslims, who believe in the Great God, in his Koran and Judgment Day, have taken up weapons in order to restore the honour and dignity of Muslims and carry out the will of God.

For many decades our heroic ancestors fought on the path of God against the infidels in order to defend their Islamic Motherland.

There is not an inch of land in Dagestan where the blood of our fathers has not been shed.

For 10 years the infidels were able to develop a whole tribe of Muslims who had sold the honour and dignity of their fathers, forgotten God, His mercy and His wrath. They exchanged God for so-called constitutional order.

Today the Dagestani mojahedin are dying for the sake of God while the traitors are dying for the sake of the infidel constitution. Think about how great the difference is between their fates. One goes to paradise and the other to hell. And how shameful and agonising is the latter's fate! Muslims of Dagestan!

Remember who you are and whose descendants you are.

The Dagestani mojahedin have begun a holy war for the sake of God.

Our resolve is firm. We want victory or paradise. And we, God willing, will liberate Dagestan from the infidels.

The cause of Imam Shamil is in the hearts of the mojahedin. Fear is in the hearts of the traitors. Drive the Russian aggressors and their stooges from your villages and towns. Establish God's sharia'h and you may be saved. Henceforth and forever more Dagestan is restoring Islamic sovereignty on its territory.

Signed: The amir of the joint command of the Dagestani mojahedin, Shamil Basayev.

[Winters 1]

I don't think we should be discussing what each of us would do, they are who tehy are and this is what they're doing, that's what's important.

Personally I would most likely give them the 24 prisonners, I have no idea how they plan to escape and if they will release all the hostages in the end.

Agreed, i just wanted to make a point hat i would not hunt down children, no matter what country/people may invade my country.

I think it would be quite easy to let them have the prisoners, secure the hostages and then follow them and blow them all away with a hind gunship.

[bn880 5]

Except that they'll take a couple hostages to some hideout most likely, if they even thought of a "successfull" resolutuion.

[bn880 5]

Like I said but wish to reiterate: I would simply make it difficult but agree to release most of the prisonners, if it is completely impossible then all 24 that were requested (make it hard so no more large demands occur). Then I would just play along to ensure the hostages are not harmed (more), and end the episode if possible. (always ready for action if needed though)

Already the identities of many of the hostage takers are known, so record that, study it etc.

Now, the real thing to work on is a full resolution to these problems with Chechen rebels, can it be done? I mean, what do they really want to fuck off fully, do they want stuff that most people in Chechnya dont?........ that's the biggest worry

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]1,000 May Be Held at Russian School

1 hour, 55 minutes ago

By MIKE ECKEL, Associated Press Writer

BESLAN, Russia - Camouflage-clad commandos carried crying babies away from a school where gunmen holding hundreds of hostages freed at least 26 women and children Thursday during a second day of high drama that kept crowds of distraught relatives on edge.

Two new accounts emerged, meanwhile, that the militants were holding at least 1,000 children, teachers and parents inside the school, far more than previously thought.

Russian officials had said that about 350 people were being held by raiders who seized the school in the North Ossetian city of Beslan on Wednesday. But a teacher who was among at least 26 women and children released on Thursday disputed that, according to a report published Friday.

"On television they say that there are 350 of us. That's not right. There's not less than 1,500 in the school," the respected newspaper Izvestia quoted the woman as saying on condition of anonymity.

In addition, local legislator Azamat Kadykov told a meeting packed with worried relatives and friends Friday that the number of hostages was "more or less 1,000."

The reports could not immediately be confirmed, but the woman who spoke with Izvestia said that some 1,000 children were enrolled at the school, and the militants had captured teachers and many parents as well when they invaded the building Tuesday during a ceremony to celebrate the start of the new school year.

As the names of the freed hostages were read over a loudspeaker Thursday, men and women wept with disappointment or hugged each other with relief. Some of the toddlers released were naked, apparently because of the stifling heat in the school, where the hostage-takers refused to allow authorities to deliver water, food and medicine for the captives.

Tensions had risen earlier when the militants fired grenades at two cars near the compound ringed by security forces, and later two grenade blasts interrupted a nervous calm during the night.

Another explosion roared on Friday morning, as Kadykov and Leonid Rosahal, a pediatrician who has been involved in the negotiations, spoke to the crowd of worried residents.

Roshal told parents that all the children inside were alive. As he spoke, parents frantically scribbled names of their children on paper and tried to pass them to the doctor. Others began calling out names, begging for information about their loved ones.

"They want hysteria from us," Roshal said, trying to calm the increasingly desperate crowd. "Our strength is in (our) composure and good sense."

President Vladimir Putin said everything possible would be done to end the "horrible" crisis and save the lives of the children and adults being held at School No. 1 in Beslan, a town in the southern region of North Ossetia.

But it was uncertain how much either side was willing to give to avoid further bloodshed in the siege — the latest incident in a series of violent attacks believed linked to Russia's war in Chechnya (news - web sites). A dozen people were reported killed by the attackers when the school was captured Wednesday, but one official said Thursday that 16 died.

Reports after the standoff began Wednesday said the attackers demanded the release of people jailed after attacks on police posts in June that killed more than 90 people in Ingushetia, a region between North Ossetia and Chechnya. But officials said Thursday that the hostage-takers had not clearly formulated their demands.

Late Thursday, Lev Dzugayev, a North Ossetian official, said his previous statement that 354 hostages were seized Wednesday might have been too low, and many in the anxious crowds said they believed the number was much higher. "Putin: at least 800 people are being held hostage," read a sign held up for television cameras.

Valery Andreyev, chief of the regional office of the Federal Security Service, meanwhile said that contacts with the hostage-takers had resumed Friday morning, following an overnight suspension, but stopped again.

Relatives, friends and neighbors who crowded outside barricades blocking access to the school gasped when the hostage release was announced by Dzugayev, an aide to the president of North Ossetia.

Dzugayev and other officials said 26 women and children of various ages were released, but Russian media reported that one woman went back to be with her still-captive children. An official at the crisis headquarters said another group of five hostages was let go separately.

An Associated Press Television News reporter saw two women and at least three infants being led away by soldiers. Some toddlers among those released were completely naked, apparently because of the heat.

Dzugayev called the releases "the first success" of negotiations and said they came after mediation — including inside the school — by Ruslan Aushev, a former president of the Ingushetia republic who is a respected figure in the northern Caucasus.

The hostage release came after anxieties were sent soaring by two powerful explosions, followed by a plume of black smoke rising from the vicinity of the school. The crisis headquarters said the militants fired grenades at two cars that apparently drove too close to the building. Officials said neither car was hit, but a gutted car was visible not far from the school.

Thursday evening, a series of heavy thuds that sounded like artillery could be heard for several minutes, apparently coming from an area northwest of town. There was no information on what caused the sounds.

Two grenade blasts were heard early Friday, and the Interfax news agency reported a policeman was injured. One projectile exploded on a street several hundred yards from the school and another hit in a yard, witnesses said. Dzugayev said that the hostage-takers told Russian authorities they fired because they saw suspicious movement and that officials told them there was no such movement.

Any hint of violence put people on edge. After seizing the school, the militants reportedly threatened to blow it up if troops tried to rescue the hostages and warned they would kill prisoners if any of their gang was hurt. Authorities estimated 15 to 24 militants held the school.

In his first public comments on the crisis, Putin pledged to do everything possible to rescue the hostages.

"Our main task is, of course, to save the lives and health of those who became hostages," Putin said in televised comments during a meeting at the Kremlin with visiting Jordanian King Abdullah II. "All actions of our forces working on the hostages' release will be devoted and be subject to this task exclusively."

Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade prompted forceful Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The most recent, the seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002, ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths.

Andreyev, the Federal Security Service's chief in North Ossetia, seemed to rule out the use of force against the hostage-takers.

"There is no alternative to dialogue," he told the ITAR-Tass news agency. "One should expect long and tense negotiations."

The militants' identity was also murky.

Dzugayev said the attackers might be from Chechnya or Ingushetia. Law enforcement sources in North Ossetia and Ingushetia, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the attackers were believed to include Chechens, Ingush, Russians and a North Ossetian suspected of participating in the Ingushetia violence.

Russia was on edge following the nearly simultaneous bombings on two jetliners last week, a suicide bombing in Moscow on Tuesday and the school siege.

The upsurge in violence has been a blow to Putin, who pledged five years ago to crush Chechnya's rebels but instead has seen the insurgents increasingly strike civilian targets beyond the republic's borders.