What is the stupid HMMWV for?

[Bernadotte 0]

Photos

I love this photo and it's very nearly on topic.  

[blackdog~ 0]

The humvee is awfully stuffy. All the room in the middle (that's why it's really wide) is to absorb explosions or something, at least that's what I heard...

On the other side of the spectrum the MTVR the new 7 ton truck, it's very enjoyable to ride in. Quiet cabin. Nice seats. Air Conditioning. Central Tire Inflation.

Unfortuntely I can't afford one at the $129,000 price tag..

[bn880 5]

Excuse me, but aren't you suppost to drive cars under 1 ton, not tanks for personal use?

[denoir 0]

If the crew can survive this, I'd say the humvee is doing just fine.

Now, I'm no expert, but it doesn't look like that humvee has been shot up directly. It more looks like damage from shrapnel. I'd say either one or two RPG hits near the car or a bomb.

[hellfish6 7]

I believe he said it was a car bomb very close to the vehicle.

[blackdog~ 0]

Excuse me, but aren't you suppost to drive cars under 1 ton, not tanks for personal use?  

Humvee is over one ton. So were the jeeps.

[bn880 5]

Yeah I know, but I thought you said something like 7 tons, that is really extreme for a personal vehicle. I mean, holy cow, you would need to fix that in a truck service station.

[BoweryBaker 0]

Hmmm... Humvee replaces the jeep and is good for low intensity conflicts. Okay. Looks like we need a new vehicle for high intensity ones. Everytime you end up in a situation where you have to send in troops its always that the vehicle is easily destroyed by maybe one or two rpg. That must suck for the soldiers.

[Bernadotte 0]

Perhaps the best way to avoid patrol vehicles becoming deathtraps in the future is for them to be unmanned like the autonomous Stryker tested last year.  Anyone know how that worked out?

[red oct 2]

your still going to need troops to patrol the streets to prevent looting and other crime. automated vehicles aren't cheap either nor are they too bright. i wouldn't leave a vehicle like a stryker roaming the crowded streets of Bagdad unsupervised. i could just imagine the likely scenario:

GPS system driving the vehicle misinterprets a intersection and ends up driving over a holy shrine and and maybe a few pedestrians and cars thus stiring up a very unhappy crowed

[mr burns 132]

Perhaps the best way to avoid patrol vehicles becoming deathtraps in the future is for them to be unmanned like the autonomous Stryker tested last year.  Anyone know how that worked out?

what autonomus robots are really good for

gotta agree with red oct. robots are still to "beta" to be used in such seroius environments

[Badassdom 0]

well i one of the reasons to use car's instead of apc's is that if a car drives into your street its a hell of lot less threating.

but as most of the other coaltion mebers have chosen to use the soft approach of befriending the locals, the US has chosen to impress and deture(?) any potential militants its not the reason the US forces use humvee's, they use humvee's because they don't have enough apc's

If the crew can survive this, I'd say the humvee is doing just fine.

]Click

if a humvee's gets hit directly by a rpg its generaly gonna be destroyed(you have to keep in mind rpg's are ment to destoy/damage apc's), but unlike in OFP it really matters where you hit it

if you hit it in its engine block it won't be able to ride any more but it mostlikely won't be destroyed

if you look at the other coalition members they use  unarmored cars (landroves,ect), i don't think its the equipment

but the strategie that is used, they really failed to win the harts and minds of the irakies. i know that the region's of the other countries are less dangerous but the US regions could have been a lot less dangerous also,its not really surprising that this happend considering the amout of forces the US forces use in all of their actions

[Bernadotte 0]

your still going to need troops to patrol the streets to prevent looting and other crime. automated vehicles aren't cheap either nor are they too bright. i wouldn't leave a vehicle like a stryker roaming the crowded streets of Bagdad unsupervised. i could just imagine the likely scenario:

GPS system driving the vehicle misinterprets a intersection and ends up driving over a holy shrine and and maybe a few pedestrians and cars thus stiring up a very unhappy crowed

Actually, I linked to the wrong article and now I can't find the other.  The idea is not full autonomy but rather remote control by soldiers buried deep within the vehicle or in some other safe location.

Here's a bit about it:

Quote[/b] ]The U.S. Army plans extensive tests at its Fort Bliss, Texas, facility next month of the robotic Strykers, which can each carry two soldiers who can control up to 10 additional unmanned air and land vehicles from their three-screen command centers at the back of each vehicle.

...

Myers said it only takes about one week to train soldiers to operate the robotic Strykers and use the on-board command centers, since the controls are designed on the basis of video games with which most young soldiers are already familiar.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

The logical consequence of winning a war means that you later on have to patrol the teritory you hold. The HMMWV is no patrol vehicule for resistance teritory, full stop.

If you would know that you got RPGS at home, that you have grenades available as well as the capabilities to build bombs, wouldnt you feel tempted to attack such soft targets? And this car with its weak armour basically sais "come on, attack me, you have got a fair chance!". So this is not the right way of showing strength and invulnerability.

Does the US army have any other vehicule available in Iraq right now to serve the purpose of daily patrols?

[Commander-598 0]

Automated weapons...?

I'm having flashbacks from Gundam Wing...

[hmmwv 0]

Strykers with bird jails? Bradleys with reactive armor? APCs...? all of them blown away after damn RPG impacts. Not only the humvees. Anyway the humvee is not a high intensity combat vehicle. Want armor? Ok. Just pick a M1 (and even the M1s are destroyed by RPG impacts)

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Strykers with bird jails? Bradleys with reactive armor? APCs...? all of them blown away after damn RPG impacts. Not only the humvees. Anyway the humvee is not a high intensity combat vehicle. Want armor? Ok. Just pick a M1   (and even the M1s are destroyed by RPG impacts)

Maybe, but how many direct hits from rpgs have you heard about in Iraq.

We are talking about roadside bombs, about indirect hits, about grenades thrown into the inside of the HMWVV, about attacks from roof-tops. M1, come on, be realistic, you cant patrol a large country like Iraq with stupid M1s: it is a combat vehicule. Even an rpg-7 can only disable a tank but not kill the crew (and it has the Halon firefighting gear to prevent the crew from burning alive). So there is a clear difference between driving a tank or driving a HMMWV.

[hmmwv 0]

Strykers with bird jails? Bradleys with reactive armor? APCs...? all of them blown away after damn RPG impacts. Not only the humvees. Anyway the humvee is not a high intensity combat vehicle. Want armor? Ok. Just pick a M1 (and even the M1s are destroyed by RPG impacts)

Maybe, but how many direct hits from rpgs have you heard about in Iraq.

We are talking about roadside bombs, about indirect hits, about grenades thrown into the inside of the HMWVV, about attacks from roof-tops. M1, come on, be realistic, you cant patrol a large country like Iraq with stupid M1s: it is a combat vehicule. Even an rpg-7 can only disable a tank but not kill the crew (and it has the Halon firefighting gear to prevent the crew from burning alive). So there is a clear difference between driving a tank or driving a HMMWV.

Exactly. You said it. And that´s because they use the Humvee and not the Abrams. This is a matter o mobility. (high mobility multipurpose wheeled vehicle...)

And i´ve heard about few rpg direct impacts in all kind of vehicles. From humvees to M1s and Bradleys. Even more, in December past year, there were a rpg attack on a M1.These rpg perforate the armor of the turret, then the shrapnel hit a crew member in his right arm and perforated it aswell.This unknown RPG variant left a 5 cm wide hole in the turret. US Army talk about experimental RPGs ż? And about roadside bombs... the improvised explosive devices,appart humvees, disable strykers and bradleys and very often injure their crew aswell, so the problem is not the humvee in itself...

To finish: None vehicle is invulnerable.

And once said this, I´ve nothing else to say about this fact.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]This unknown RPG variant left a 5 cm wide hole in the turret. US Army talk about experimental RPGs ż?

It was a PG-7VR, according to the official investigation report.

It was not the turrret, but at the sideskirts of tracks:

I think the HMMV is a bit inadequate for urban scenarios. It´s a good vehicle, the armored version is nice, but it doesn´t really provide enough security for combat patrols in urban scenarios. It´s misplaced there and I feel sorry for the guys who have to use it in Iraq in exactly such regions.

The Stryker is no real improvement also, imo. It´s vulnerable.

Vehicles for such scenarios are hard to find. Either you go big and have a fat tank rolling in, wich is sitting duck or you go for lighter combat vehicles or transports that can move in such scenarios at a sufficient speed and with defense opportunities. The Dingo may look ugly, but it´s a fat armored bastardo with 40mm arguments. The TPZ Fuchs is already a bit too big for towns, Bagdad style with all the tight roads. We moved around with it in Mogadishu , wich was certainly fun, but it´s big and you can´t cruise all roads within a town with it. Enemy knows about that.

I´m not sure if the Stryker is the ultimate vehicle, but it´s certainly better than the HMMV.

Anyway, every nation now has a program for such vehicles and there will be good approaches soon. The  Dingo is a nice step towards it, even if it is Unimog Chassis.

[cozza 24]

http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/strykercage.jpg

that aint good for urban combat. Guy with RPG on top of a building could fire on top of the tank

[Gollum1 0]

http://www.webmutants.com/strategypage/strykercage.jpg

that aint good for urban combat. Guy with RPG on top of a building could fire on top of the tank

1) The Stryker isn't a tank

2) All armored vehicles are vulnerable at the top/back

3) Strykers will most likely have their enemy at such angles that the cage is effective. An RPG on a roof is a nightmare for every vehicle crew, caged or not.

Nobody said the cage is perfect, but it seems to provide good protection in most situations. A top cage would most likely impair the vehicle's capability in some way, I'm sure it has crossed the designer's minds that top attacks are bad.

Quote[/b] ]Strykers with bird jails? Bradleys with reactive armor? APCs...? all of them blown away after damn RPG impacts.

Bradleys have been reported to stand 1-3 RPG hits with minimal loss of capability in many situations. M1's soak up or deflect RPGs at the front, but are again vulnerable at the back, a conscious compromise on the designer's part, as with all MBTs.

And it's bird cage.

Quote[/b] ]but how many direct hits from rpgs have you heard about in Iraq.

Lots.

[Ares1978 0]

A top cage would most likely impair  the vehicle's capability in some way, I'm sure it has crossed the designer's minds that top attacks are bad.

It has piss-poor mobility in an urban environment with the cage anyway, something that I would call "impairing its capability". The driver is lucky they don't have to deal with too much vegetation.

[Gollum1 0]

By the way, can the cage be dismantled in the field?

[Balschoiw 0]

Yes. As the cage was introduced to the Stryker in some kind of let´s say "panic mode" it can be removed, but it´s not built for fast changes between caged and non-caged. As you can see on this pic, the cage is assembled in a time consuming way...so in the fields it´s either caged or not. A fast change isn´t possible imo. Remember you have to take the cage with you on your tour then.

I don´t see the Stryker as THE future. It´s work -in - progress, there´s still a long way. Just check the rate of the tires that wear off with the strykers. They are too small for a vehicle like this , that can be used as a total weapon carrier. It sure weights a lot with stretched load , like the above picture shows. Why didn´t they use a different setup than 8 small wheels ? Just a technical detail, but I´d really liked to know. And i wished someone would come up with some uncoventional armor for APC´s in general. New materials are there. Why don´t they use them ? That´s not only for the Stryker but also other APC´s and light wheeled vehicles. Most of them go the easy, uneffective metal way. When wiull we get those superhard, superlight armor they promise us for years now ? I´d definately had a better feeling when sitting in an armoured Wolf then

[Balschoiw 0]

Just out of curiosity:

Can the Stryker swim ?