Former president ronald reagan dies

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Story

[tankieboy 0]

Sad.

[Winters 1]

He is at peace now, i can't imagine what it could be like to live with alzheimers for 10 years.

Goodbye my old CnC you will be missed

[Nathanz 0]

Rest in Peace

[pajama 0]

Yes very sad...

Hmmm still remember that Reagan face at ofp.info

Gah...my thred got closed...beat ya by a minute

[denoir 0]

Sad. I respected the man. When he saw that the Soviet Union was changing he adapted a friendly policy and together with Gorbatchev he ended the cold war in a peaceful way.

His strategy before that was also brilliant. When he first came to power America was very weak and had a serious self-esteem problem. When he left America was in an all-time-high having effectively won the cold war. Reagan achieved that victory by forcing the Soviets into a race (star wars program) that he knew that they could not afford. And really it did break them economically and in turn politically. A smart and agressive move.

But what I respect the man for is how quickly he abandoned the hard line when he saw that there was a genuine chance of reconcilliation with the Soviets.

[MLF 0]

Sad. I respected the man. When he saw that the Soviet Union was changing he adapted a friendly policy and together with Gorbatchev he ended the cold war in a peaceful way.

His strategy before that was also brilliant. When he first came to power America was very weak and had a serious self-esteem problem. When he left America was in an all-time-high having effectively won the cold war. Reagan achieved that victory by forcing the Soviets into a race (star wars program) that he knew that they could not afford. And really it did break them economically and in turn politically. A smart and agressive move.

But what I respect the man for is how quickly he abandoned the hard line when he saw that there was a genuine chance of reconcilliation with the Soviets.

indeed, one of the better presidents of the USA, as they say "They don't make em like they used too"

[Sgt. Stryker 0]

Yes I agree Ronald Reagan was one of the best American Presidents, RIP Sir yoou will never be forgotten. Please people keep this thread clean please I beg you, this man was a wonderful man no need to start a political fight or anything else right now.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Rest in peace, but he doesn't deserve the deification he has undergone in most conservative circles.

[cozza 24]

RIP Ronald Reegan.

Even thought I dont live in America I was still sadden by his death. RIP again

[Schoeler 0]

I never agreed with his fiscal policies, but I supported him tremendously for his foreign policy. A true peacemaker and a great statesman and President. May God bless him and his family.

[Mister Frag 0]

I happened to drive by the funeral home where Ronald Reagan's body was taken at around 11:30AM today. There were barricades being unloaded, and I saw two satellite transmission trucks. The former president didn't pass away until 1:09PM. Clearly, the press must have been tipped off, though I doubt it was done by the family.

Ronald Reagon, Rest in Peace.

[IceFire 0]

I heard about this a few hours ago. And as one could imagine my reaction was that of utter disbelief and feelings of shock. It was the same reaction I had when I learned that Fred Rogers died.

And although I was not old enough to know him as a president when he was one. From what I do know about him and have learned through parents and growing up, absolute reverence and respect cannot descripe my view of this man. He was a great man, and I have always thought that he was one of the few men born on this earth to be one of the handful of great men of our time.

Noone else can compare to him, ever.

This is a very very sad day.

[Guest]

My mother always said if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all.

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[Tex -USMC- 0]

I heard about this a few hours ago.  And as one could imagine my reaction was that of utter disbelief and feelings of shock.  It was the same reaction I had when I learned that Fred Rogers died.

And although I was not old enough to know him as a president when he was one.  From what I do know about him and have learned through parents and growing up, absolute reverence and respect cannot descripe my view of this man.  He was a great man, and I have always thought that he was one of the few men born on this earth to be one of the handful of great men of our time.

Noone else can compare to him, ever.

This is a very very sad day.

This is what I'm talking about. Give me a good reason why any of the above is true.

[ralphwiggum 6]

the youngest one is Ronald Reagan.

Is it coincidence that he looks like Skywalker from original 'Star Wars'?

anyways, he did a good job managing fall of communism and ending coldwar. that's just about how i'd sum it up.

however, i think i'm about to get ready to throw up at seeing some 'conservatives' trying to blow this out of proportion and try to make him a 'saint'.

from his assasination.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]however, i think i'm about to get ready to throw up at seeing some 'conservatives' trying to blow this out of proportion and try to make him a 'saint'.

I wonder if the hardcore conservatives are going press even more harder now for him to be on some money and mount rushmore (the money and rushmore is true). Anyway, fmr. president Ronald "Raygun" Reagan RIP.

Quote[/b] ]anyways, he did a good job managing fall of communism and ending coldwar. that's just about how i'd sum it up.

agreed

[Schoeler 0]

Tex, Reagan was largely responsible for the strategy that broke the back of the Soviet Union. You are probably too young to remember, but the early 80's were a time of deep fear and paranoia as we were on the verge of a nuclear showdown with the Soviets. Tensions were very high and everyone expected war. Reagan did a lot to ease those tensions, restore America's military and fix our broken spirit after Vietnam and eventually end the Cold War. It happened in 1991, but the seeds for change were sown in the 80's under Reagan.

Now don't get me started on trickle down economics, but as a statesman, Reagan was a good man, and this is comiong from someone who despises the Repuiblican party and almost all of it's platforms.

I don't see why Reagan shouldn't have his picture on a bill, he was certainly a much better President than Andrew Jackson, why not put him on the $20? Besides, the irony and subtle humor of doing it would be priceless.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Tex, Reagan was largely responsible for the strategy that broke the back of the Soviet Union.  You are probably too young to remember, but the early 80's were a time of deep fear and paranoia as we were on the verge of a nuclear showdown with the Soviets.  Tensions were very high and everyone expected war.  Reagan did a lot to ease those tensions, restore America's military and fix our broken spirit after Vietnam and eventually end the Cold War.  It happened in 1991, but the seeds for change were sown in the 80's under Reagan.

The economic realities that brought about the Soviet Union's demise were beyond Reagan's control- yes, amping up the arms race did shorten the USSR's lifespan, but there is no question that it was just a hastening of the inevitable. As for his easing the level of tension between the two countries, it's fair to say that he was responsible for the then-high level of tension in the first place- easing that tension was his respnsibility, because of how hard he pushed the Soviets during his first term. And, to argue a wider view, in light of the former Soviet Republics almost utter inability to function post-collapse (and the international community's inability to help them reform), I submit that a hastening of the Soviet Union's collapse may have been less beneficial to us than say, if it were to collapse 5 years later. The utter economic ruin that the USSR faced translated with devastating consequences to the new confederal states, and the speed with which it came about meant that many of the balleyhooed reforms conducted by Gorbachev were still-born; victims, just like the Soviet Union, of a crushing economic reality. A more protracted end to communism would have been less dramatic, but ultimately it may have been more beneficial. But I digress- my main point was that the Soviet Union was, circa 1980, a fundamentally flawed creature, and would have gone the way of the dinosaur without any prodding (which, at the time, amounted to near-brinksmanship), given no Reagan and a nominal arms race. Why move the Pershing II's? Why bother with the Peacekeeper? Flooding the petroleum market in 85-86? Risky moves that happened to turn out okay.

Not only this, but we are seeing now what a dangerous game Reagan was actually playing, because we have the benefit of seeing a president operate on many of the same principles and policies, but without the same serendipitous confluence of circumstances that Reagan presided over.

As for his rebuilding the military, no question there- although the fact that half of it was dissassembled again after only a few trips to the Carribean and one to Iraq should weigh into the equation. Mending some ill-will? Certainly. But those are the hallmarks of a competent but unremarkable presidency. On the other hand, what about Iran-Contra? Our close relationship with Iraq (a relationship that in part contributed to the trip mentioned earlier)? The CIA mucking around in Afghanistan at the time? All of these too fall at Reagan's doorstep, but the teflon president is instead romanticized and idealized. All I ask for is a little bit of realism.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]But I digress- my main point was that the Soviet Union was, circa 1980, a fundamentally flawed creature, and would have gone the way of the dinosaur without any prodding (which, at the time, amounted to near-brinksmanship), given no Reagan and a nominal arms race.

You couldn't be more wrong. By circa 1980 it was a general concensus that USA was going to lose the cold war. The Soviet military was in far better shape (the US was licking its wounds from Vietnam), their economy was doing farily well (as opposed to the series of oil crisis in the late '70s. America and how the world viewed America was at an all time low. You were by others, and largely by yourselves considered as losers.

Reagan changed that.

What you are telling Tex is the neatly revised story of the cold war that portrays the US as the obvious winner. It certainly was not that day. Western victory was not at all for granted. Soviet economy was not such a joke as people seem to think it was. To a wide extent America and the Soviet Union were equals. In the late '70s the Soviets were ahead in the race. Reagan turned that around. It was not something that would have happened by itself.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

What you are telling Tex is the neatly revised story of the cold war that portrays the US as the obvious winner. It certainly was not that day. Western victory was not at all for granted. Soviet economy was not such a joke as people seem to think it was. To a wide extent America and the Soviet Union were equals. In the late '70s the Soviets were ahead in the race. Reagan turned that around. It was not something that would have happened by itself.

The gap between the perception at the time and the core facts was rather immense at the time. However, just because victory was not assured at the time does not mean that I am peddling ravisionist history. If you'll look back at my thesis, it is that Reagan was not solely responsible for any of this, and there were many mitigating factors. The fact that he was ushered in after a startlingly ineffective president was one of them- any indication of solid, competent leadership when contrasted to the bungling of the latter half of the Carter administration is certainly going to seem even more pronounced due simply to the comparison of the two. Also, the changing of the old guard in the Kremlin- the old Party men were dropping like flies, and as such the USSR was quickly coming to a leadership crossroads. These and many other factors make the situation, when viewed from the bird's eye of history, as neither as dire as you paint it, nor as rosy as you say that I indicate it was.

Now, one point does stick. I wasn't around to sample the psychological climate of the period. But to say Reagan led us out of it singlehanded is tantamount to saying he grabbed your hand while in a dark room, picked a direction, and headed for what everyone hoped was the light switch. Read my posts again- he deserves credit. He certainly was not a bad president, at least in terms of his foreign agenda. But he does not deserve to be put on a pedestal, and that's all I'm saying.

[denoir 0]

That is all correct. It wasn't Reagan alone. The Soviets did a pretty good job in the 80's of running themselves into the ground. The seriousness of the cold war situation however cannot be underestimate. We were then talking about a serious possibility of the extermination of man kind. One cannot understate the immense pressure and terror people were under. And after the Vietnam war there was a US military breakdown. If the Soviets had attacked in the late '70s, they would have won. Reagan contributed to ending that trend. He did it first by staging an insane hyper arms race that the Soviets had to play along with but could not afford. And then when Gorbachev and his Perestrojka came into effect, Reagan did a 180 turn and started building a good relationship with the new Soviet leadership. One of Reagans greatest contributions was that the cold war ended in such a nice way. Of course on the other side, Gorbatchev was at least as much responsible for the changes that occured.

Anyhow, IMO for his contribution to ending the cold war, America and the rest of the western world owe Reagan a debt of gratitude. Of course he did a bunch of not-so-good things as well and the extent of his contributions can be debated. The seriousness of the cold war situation warrents however that one is very appreciative of the type of contribution that he made. So I'm happy to overlook the things I strongly disagreed with.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Anyhow, IMO for his contribution to ending the cold war, America and the rest of the western world owe Reagan a debt of gratitude. Of course he did a bunch of not-so-good things as well and the extent of his contributions can be debated. The seriousness of the cold war situation warrents however that one is very appreciative of the type of contribution that he made. So I'm happy to overlook the things I strongly disagreed with.

And that's one of the reasons why Reagan's policies should be looked at with a very powerful microscope before they are rubber stamped by mainstream historians. With hindsight, a move like starting production on an entirely new ICBM class with reputed first-stike capability seems less mind-numbingly risky than it did back then. And I reiterate, today we are seeing the results of such self-assured recklessness play out with a much less sympathetic set of circumstances.

As for overlooking smaller disagreements, that is a dangerous concession to make to right-wingers in America. These folks (ex: Icefire) think that Reagan hung the moon and stars, and would name half the government buildings in America after him; at the same time, they are convinced that Clinton brought the country within an eyelash of total moral collapse. They will naturally brook no argument in the matter. Of course, you don't have to worry about that.

edit: and I suppose that's what admiration of a black/white worldview will get you.

[ozanzac 0]

It's always saddening when anyone deteriorates through the hand of Alzheimers, but especially more so when a leader with such prowess suffers that fate, not only for the individual, but also for those who supported him in those final debilitating years.

May he now rest in peace.

[toadlife 3]

If the Soviets had attacked in the late '70s, they would have won.

What? How would they 'win'?

If you're talking about an attack with nukes, nobody would have won, but the chance either side lauching such a strike was extrememly unlikely due to MAD.

If you're talking about a convetional attack/invasion, I have to ask, what have you been smoking?

Reagan contributed to ending that trend. He did it first by staging an insane hyper arms race that the Soviets had to play along with but could not afford.

He also layed more debt on the U.S. citizens than any other president in history. Around $1.6 trillion. To this day, Reagan's fiscal policies are hurting the U.S. economy by forcing us to pay more taxes to fund the debt.

Anyhow, IMO for his contribution to ending the cold war, America and the rest of the western world owe Reagan a debt of gratitude.

I agree that he showed good leadership in the foreign policy department, but I think he could have done it without doing such severe damage to the economy - damage that continues to resonate in our economy to this day.