International Politics Thread

[-33ker 0]

According to Wahl-O-Mat.de I should vote for SPD. Second are the Greens and third are the commies from the PDS.

[denoir 0]

But the growth of a common political culture itself is far from an inevitability (at least within the lifetimes of people in this forum). In fact there is easily scope for greater division, and if we start taking the emergence of a common european political culture for granted, then it is liable to disappear at any time like the mirage it currently is. I would perhaps wish i had the same unbridled optimism as you, except here it almost smacks of complacency.

Why the pessimism? The EU come officially in existance in 1992 through the Maastricht treaties. Before that the common European politics was nothing. Now, just little over 10 years later some 60-80% of the laws that are passed in the member states are from EU directives. Look at the boom of the Euro currency. It became a reality in '99 five years after the first real planning started. Today it's the world's strongest currency.

Also the Eastern European countries are now part of it as equals, truly marking the end of the cold war (and communism).

This kind of speed and scale is unprecedented in the history. Some amazing rapid work is being done.

I'll bet that ten years from now we'll have a common constitution, president, foregin policy and defence (possibly even tax policy).

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps im being a little harsh, with all ive said i voted for a party belonging to the spineless liberal pinko ELDR  , the Liberal Democrats (at the european level that is).

You see! I told you so!  We're getting there.

I'm going to vote for the ELDR as well now on Sunday. Now we're voting for the same party in the same election. Not as Britons or Swedes, but as Europeans. Things happen fast, very fast.

[Pathy 0]

I've voted. Im glad to say my vote didnt go on facists and xenophobes....ie the BNP and UKIP didnt get my vote.

[denoir 0]

So who did you vote for?

Wait, let me guess... I don't think you are the conservative type and you were pro Euro IIRC. You didn't vote liberal (ELDR) because you would have said so after me and John Wayne over there talked about voting for them. That means that you voted labour i.e the socialists in the EP.

Am I right?

[Bordoy 0]

Staying in the EU will mean eventually having to join the euro. As a result, control of the economy will pass to the European Central Bank, which is required to treat the entire EU area as one economy.

Although exporters complain about the "strong" pound (they really mean the weak euro), the slightest weakening of sterling makes everyone nervous about inflation.

When EU 'harmonisation' has raised costs and taxes here to the levels of those in France and Germany, what businesses will come and set up - or remain - here?

The euro - the final stage of Economic and Monetary Union - is proving a disastrous failure. It was supposed to be a stable currency, but has fluctuated wildly on the international exchanges and at one point had lost over 30% of its original value. It has also meant higher prices across the EU, causing protests which led to anti-euro movements in Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal and elsewhere. The strain of having the same interest rate is felt across the eurozone. Germany and Italy, which need lower interest rates, are technically in recession, whilst booming Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate. The euro prevents the democratically elected governments of these countries taking the measures needed, because they have surrendered control over their own economies.

[EiZei 0]

For the <span style='color:#000000'>Ger</span><span style='color:#ff0000'>ma</span><span style='color:#FFEA00'>ns</span>: here is a website where you can check which party fits best to you:

http://www.wahl-o-mat.de

Of course the party I was in most accordance with were the <span style='color:#00A651'>greens</span>

Thats old news, we finns have had similar things for our more indecisive voters even during the 1999 election.

My most similar candidates were mostly pro-eu lefties and liberals. Ended up voting for the left alliance (most left mainstream party) since theres no way I would vote for The Swedish People's Party even if they are supposed to be liberal.

[DarkLight 0]

In theory the French (happy? ) speaking part of Belgium doesn't really speak Wallonia or whatever it's called in English (seriously i have no damn clue) either... In theory they speak French but in real life there IS a difference...

Yes ... their French soundslike a washing machine

All's these years I've been picking up French and couldn't understand from where.

French Spoken by a Belgian

Vives le Belgicue!

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Bordoy-

Quote[/b] ]Staying in the EU will mean eventually having to join the euro. As a result, control of the economy will pass to the European Central Bank, which is required to treat the entire EU area as one economy.

Although exporters complain about the "strong" pound (they really mean the weak euro), the slightest weakening of sterling makes everyone nervous about inflation.

When EU 'harmonisation' has raised costs and taxes here to the levels of those in France and Germany, what businesses will come and set up - or remain - here?

The euro - the final stage of Economic and Monetary Union - is proving a disastrous failure. It was supposed to be a stable currency, but has fluctuated wildly on the international exchanges and at one point had lost over 30% of its original value. It has also meant higher prices across the EU, causing protests which led to anti-euro movements in Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal and elsewhere. The strain of having the same interest rate is felt across the eurozone. Germany and Italy, which need lower interest rates, are technically in recession, whilst booming Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate. The euro prevents the democratically elected governments of these countries taking the measures needed, because they have surrendered control over their own economies.

May i ask where you cut and pasted that from?

[denoir 0]

Staying in the EU will mean eventually having to join the euro. As a result, control of the economy will pass to the European Central Bank, which is required to treat the entire EU area as one economy.

That's the idea of harmonisation - to get the economies into sych so that the markets can work more efficiently.

Quote[/b] ]

Although exporters complain about the "strong" pound (they really mean the weak euro), the slightest weakening of sterling makes everyone nervous about inflation.

Eh? What are you talking about. The Euro is strong and growning stronger against the pound.

Forex Webcharts:

Quote[/b] ]The euro - the final stage of Economic and Monetary Union - is proving a disastrous failure. It was supposed to be a stable currency, but has fluctuated wildly on the international exchanges and at one point had lost over 30% of its original value.

What utter bullshit. The Euro is at the moment the strongest currency in the world. The standard measurement is against the USD:

Would you like to show me that 30% drop on the graph please?

Quote[/b] ] It has also meant higher prices across the EU, causing protests which led to anti-euro movements in Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal and elsewhere.

A majority of the people are pleased with the Euro.

Quote[/b] ]The strain of having the same interest rate is felt across the eurozone. Germany and Italy, which need lower interest rates, are technically in recession, whilst booming Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate. The euro prevents the democratically elected governments of these countries taking the measures needed, because they have surrendered control over their own economies.

Yepp, it's tough in the beginning no doubt. The payoff will however come when the economies are synchronized.

[denoir 0]

May i ask where you cut and pasted that from?

LMAO, I was going to ask him the exactly same thing

[theavonlady 2]

Bordoy-

Quote[/b] ]Staying in the EU will mean eventually having to join the euro. As a result, control of the economy will pass to the European Central Bank, which is required to treat the entire EU area as one economy.

Although exporters complain about the "strong" pound (they really mean the weak euro), the slightest weakening of sterling makes everyone nervous about inflation.

When EU 'harmonisation' has raised costs and taxes here to the levels of those in France and Germany, what businesses will come and set up - or remain - here?

The euro - the final stage of Economic and Monetary Union - is proving a disastrous failure. It was supposed to be a stable currency, but has fluctuated wildly on the international exchanges and at one point had lost over 30% of its original value. It has also meant higher prices across the EU, causing protests which led to anti-euro movements in Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal and elsewhere. The strain of having the same interest rate is felt across the eurozone. Germany and Italy, which need lower interest rates, are technically in recession, whilst booming Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate. The euro prevents the democratically elected governments of these countries taking the measures needed, because they have surrendered control over their own economies.

May i ask where you cut and pasted that from?

How lazy can you guys get?!

[DarkLight 0]

Bordoy-

Quote[/b] ]Staying in the EU will mean eventually having to join the euro. As a result, control of the economy will pass to the European Central Bank, which is required to treat the entire EU area as one economy.

Although exporters complain about the "strong" pound (they really mean the weak euro), the slightest weakening of sterling makes everyone nervous about inflation.

When EU 'harmonisation' has raised costs and taxes here to the levels of those in France and Germany, what businesses will come and set up - or remain - here?

The euro - the final stage of Economic and Monetary Union - is proving a disastrous failure. It was supposed to be a stable currency, but has fluctuated wildly on the international exchanges and at one point had lost over 30% of its original value. It has also meant higher prices across the EU, causing protests which led to anti-euro movements in Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal and elsewhere. The strain of having the same interest rate is felt across the eurozone. Germany and Italy, which need lower interest rates, are technically in recession, whilst booming Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate. The euro prevents the democratically elected governments of these countries taking the measures needed, because they have surrendered control over their own economies.

May i ask where you cut and pasted that from?

How lazy can you guys get?!

Hahah that's wonderful... If you quote, at least say that you've quoted

[raedor 8]

For the <span style='color:#000000'>Ger</span><span style='color:#ff0000'>ma</span><span style='color:#FFEA00'>ns</span>: here is a website where you can check which party fits best to you:

http://www.wahl-o-mat.de

Of course the party I was in most accordance with were the <span style='color:#00A651'>greens</span>

haha, same here

[Bordoy 0]

well, it was a good try anyways, lol. I had to resort to ways of lowest of the lows. Especially denoir with his graphs which have no meaning to me.

But i still have the same opinion. Any anyway these European or Euro discussions always turn into me and a few guys vs the world, though this time seems like me vs the world, though they get more interesting every time.

But i don't support the BNP even though what i've been saying.

ok, so now what?

[Bordoy 0]

lol, anyway watching Tarrant dude on TV, seems to be about far-rights. Someone right wing had a chatshow, and a lefty was on and the lefty destroyed his desk.

Someone h8s jerry springer cus hes a jew.

[Bordoy 0]

I say some right-wings are mad heads. Any left-wings apart from Guba like that?

[denoir 0]

well, it was a good try anyways, lol. I had to resort to ways of lowest of the lows. Especially denoir with his graphs which have no meaning to me.

The first graph [ http://denoir.ma.cx/ofp/eurgbp.jpg ] shows the the value of the Euro divided by the value of the British Pound over several years time. What can be seen there is that the Euro has risen more in value since its introduction than the pound has.

The second graph [ http://denoir.ma.cx/ofp/eurgus.jpg ] shows in the same way the value of the Euro divided by the value of the of the US Dollar. What can be seen there are two things: 1) The relative value of the Euro has constantly increased. 2) The worst fluctuation has been less than 10% in a 6 month period, which is very very stable.

[denoir 0]

For the <span style='color:#000000'>Ger</span><span style='color:#ff0000'>ma</span><span style='color:#FFEA00'>ns</span>: here is a website where you can check which party fits best to you:

http://www.wahl-o-mat.de

Of course the party I was in most accordance with were the <span style='color:#00A651'>greens</span>

haha, same here  

I did the test too. My German is a bit rusty but I think that I understood most of the questions. It would seem that I'm consistent:

Quote[/b] ]

Ihre Angaben haben die höchste Übereinstimmung mit der Partei "FDP"

[MLF 0]

I voted labour on the advice of denoir in that if the UKIP guys were elected there decisions in the EU would probally do more harm than good, but i still feel a Euro is bad because different countries need different rates, to me its not a mere currency but the creation of the United States of Europe which tbh i dont want.

[denoir 0]

I voted labour on the advice of denoir in that if the UKIP guys were elected there decisions in the EU would probally do more harm than good, but i still feel a Euro is bad because different countries need different rates, to me its not a mere currency but the creation of the United States of Europe which tbh i dont want.

Then you should probably vote for the tories in the national elections. They are very much against both the Euro as well as any form of federalism. And this is decided on the national level.

Hopefully by then I will have given you enough arguments in these debates for you to become a fanatic pro-EU supporter  

Anyway, regardless of your Britain/EU opinion, you did the right thing in voting for a serious party. The European Parliament doesn't have anything to say on membership issues or currency questions and stuff like that. So voting in people that have very strong opinions on an issue that isn't covered and no opinions about the real work being done is not the way to go. It will only obstruct the process and make the EU more cumbersome etc

[Badgerboy 0]

Lib Dems for council and EU.

[SgtBarnes 0]

I voted for the SNP - Left of centre, pro-european, Scottish independence party.

[raedor 8]

looks like the ofp players are all "left-centres". at least the people here in this thread... it's boring when everyone has the same opinion. shall i go to the right now

[Bordoy 0]

looks like the ofp players are all "left-centres". at least the people here in this thread... it's boring when everyone has the same opinion. shall i go to the right now    

surely you could of seen by my post im not left-wing.

@Denoir: Thanks for the explanation of the graphs i think i understand now. Also, do you know when the results will be released for the Euro Elections? I know the Dutch have released there's which is against the order by the EU.

@SgtBarnes: Scottish National Party, want independance but are pro-european. So what are they trying to be independant from?

[Pathy 0]

May i just say, that i read that economic b******t off the UKIP party before it was posted up here and had already dismissed almost every point.

And i am studying economics

Actually, most of us economic students tend to be, by nature, right wing (let markets work, smash the trade unions, need flexible labour markets, ect ) so its not like im attacking them because they are right wing. More like they dont know **** about economics, and unless you want to see the UK dragged into a recession, you dont want the UKIP pulling us out of the EU.